Barred

I am using a TIR5 with driver 5.0-Beta05B that was posted yesterday (which works). After watching your video it looks as if your camera might be losing track at the edges. Maybe your repair altered the geometry a little, I know the math is pretty tight (I would fire an email off to [email protected] explaining what is happening and a link to your video.)

I will take points as I remember them. First, Guys have you got the new drivers 5.05Bets that was posted yesterday? I am using them at the moment and they are running fine in AMA2 and my other games. As for the auto turning, in real life you can look in one direction and move in another. You have to make the choice whether to turn on not, you do not turn automatically. We do it so often it seems to be a reflex. I do not think the talk about headsets is off topic as long it has to do with the TrackClip Pro. I have tried a good few over the years Medusa, Zalman, a couple of Sennhiesiers and both eDimansional headsets. To my annoyance the TrackClip Pro does not work with my Grado's. I have a fast, linear profile that does not have a forward dead zone. I do not like dead zones or where your head movement slows when you are reaching the dead zone. So I use a straight line though I do not have to look too far for full range in-game. Send me a PM if you would like to try it, I warn you it is fast.

Enjoy :bounce3:

I was not going to mention a particular dealer during all of this. I have mentioned I am biased about TIR and have been from the early days. Back in the days of TIR1 I never dreamed what it would become today with TIR5. One of the reasons (apart from what TIR gives you in game) I think that NaturalPoint is an example for great customer support. It does not matter if it is a dead system to a 'How too' their service has been exemplary over the years. I think the same for RC Simulations. RCS is a small family run affair with out of their way technical help. I have heard Bob spend a couple of hours with a client to get their purchase running. I was privileged to visit there when I use to live in Bristol. (to the mods) I would not normally mention a dealer in public (it would be different in a PM) but Seth mentioned my supplier of anything flight sim to try and defuse what could damage and de-rail a great thread, The Mods have shown great leeway. Please guys do not abuse the privilege either on purpose or not. I would not like to see this thread closed down, as there is some good information here for those thinking of buying to have bought a TIR and want a little help. I do not mind helping with TIR problems that can be sorted before Seth and co have to step in. This is my way of saying thank you for a great product and great service to their users.

That is a possibility. There are a lot of Bob's that pose as individuals but are businesses. Even if Bob is selling his old one, he either a) bought it at some point. b) at some point or it was stolen. IF he had it as a gift then see a) or b) Or 'he' is a business then see a) or b) if b) at any point in the normal purchasing route then see b)

True!! BUT! Bob has either bought his stock of TIR in which along the chain NaturalPoint would have made some money. Either that or Bob stole his stock which is a different animal.

FINCUAN wrote:- "No need for that either, there are alternatives. Someone probably knows more, but these two I've tried myself and found to be working" I have tried a couple of these "free" alternatives. None of them work half as well as TIR and they take up more recourses. To give a comparison:- It is like gluing a stick onto the ball of an old mouse and buying a joystick.

Yeah I hate gaming with out my TIR. All I have to figure out is how to get my Cougar and rudders working in ARMA2:yay:

Oh sorry IL2 still works a treat with TIR. It was that there were some people who did not want to fork out for a unit and thought that others should not be allowed to use theirs because they did not have one. This was a few years ago though and attitudes had changed when I stopped playing online. Now, as a rule TIR is seen as a must have in some circles.

The devide between those who used TIR and those who did not in IL2 got to the stage that TIR users were accused of cheating as they had an unfair advantage over those who used padlock. It did not matter that you could padlock a player before you could see them, that was just tough luck. I really hope that ARMA2 does not go the way IL2 did. TIR just allows you a more natural immersion into a game that uses it. As MPBR put it it "I feel wrong when I don't use it." That happens after a while :) I am just glad newcomers to TIR are falling in love with it as I did way back in ver1.

blkjaq if you are getting some motion sickness give the one:one a try. This profile has no dead zone, but more importantly the speed of head movement is the same throughout it's range. Those with curves in the centre though they dampen small movements when looking at the monitor accelerate your in game movements as you rotate further round. I do not like the feeling of your view snapping around when my head is not. To stop the zooming turn off the z axis. To make your own custom profile:- 1 Make a copy of the basic profile type that you like (Default Smooth or One:one). 2 Make sure Axis is set to Yaw. 3 Using the Green Up arrow click a few times, centre your view and turn your head. 4 Repeat 3 untill you are moving your head at the requared speed. 5 Moving the 'Dots' in the horizontal axis that you can see in the graph will increase the ratio between the amount you move your head to that one in game. 6 Select Pitch in the Axis Box. 7 Repeat 3 and 4 until you can see fully up and down at the speed you want. 8 Select Roll in the Axis Box. 9 Repeat 3 and 4 until you can roll your head fully at the speed you require (you might have to use down for this one.) You can do the same for the other 3 axis. Once you have your degrees of movement sorted it is time to deal with the speed. Up in Motion Control adjust the speed up and down so that the rate of turn is comfortable. (this is what causes the feeling of motion sickness.) I leave smoothing to about 20-50. I know these are not actual numbers but I think this will help you to comfortably set your own profiles. Good Luck.

No problem. I am glad it helped.

NaturalPoint started out with SmartNav which was designed to help those with dissabilaties to use computers. Some clever person at NP had a great idea what if we could use a cut down version of smartNav and use in in flight sims. From this we got TrackIR (I think that is how it went). It took a while and a few versions later and now it has got to the point that if a flight sim does not support TIR then sales are hit because TIR users will not buy a sim if it does not use TIR. If the game does not support TIR the TIR users do not want the game. This started small for a few years when TIR was hardly known about and sales went by word of mouth, but things are starting to snow ball now. When GTR, Live for Speed and rFactor incorporated TIR the same thing started for driving sims and some games is happening as it did for flight sims. Now ARMA and ARMA2 are pioneering for the fps as they did for flight sims and driving sims. Over on the NP forums people ask for TIR to be added to a game then they approach the developer. The more people ask bot NP and a developer or publisher the more of a chance it might get added. I will put my hand up and say I am not a big ARMA fan I am enjoying ARMA2 more though. I bought both games because BIS had the foresight to add TIR to their game, so I bought both games. Back in the days when OFP and Ghost Recon were splitting players I was a Recon fan. For some reason I just never felt at home in a BIS game. All the time BIS incorporate TIR I will buy their games, I think that much of TIR. I am not nor ever been an employee of NaturalPoint. I have just been one of those who bought Version1 because of 1 game and have been a big fan ever since. Sorry for going OT for a bit.

You can set the ratio of how much you move your real head to the one in the game. As for turning on or off axis in a game that supports all 6 axis well then that is down to individuals taste. Having to map 3 key's/buttons to turn on/off, precision mode and centre view is nothing when you look at all the key mappings in AMA2. Back in the days of TIR ver1 then the 'centre' key/button was used frequently. With today’s ver5 using the clip for a cap, I left the computer for an hour or so with a game paused and still wearing the cap. When I went back and un-paused the game the tracking was a little out and that was because I was not in the same sitting position. It had nothing to do with TrackIR. The tracking is more precise with the Pro clip with its active tracking. When someone gets a TrackIR for the very first time it takes a bit to set up and to train your brain to its use. How long this takes and how difficult it is to set up is down to the individual, any difficulties or advice is well handed on NatrualPoint's web site. You originally said that when you are looking around you move your eyes and not your head. You are correct in that when scanning you use your eyes (your periphiral vision detects movement and then you use your frontal vision lock on for ranging). If something is picked up by your head orientates to where your eyes are looking. This is done automatically by your brain so that it can lock your eyesight and hearing to try and pick up any more movement. If you can see it your stereoscopic view is then used to judge its distance and to do this you must move your head to get the largest distance between your eyes so that the difference between what your eyes are seeing is used to get the distance. This is so instinctive that you do not realise that you are doing it. You can consciously over ride it if you want to though.

When I first got a TrackIR there was only 1 game and that was IL2, even then it had to be patched. Comparing the TIR at that time to the present version was like comparing a COM port Mouse with a modern gaming mouse. IT was still worth getting as it made such a difference. Have a look at Dslyecxi's video here http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/game-arma-2.html IF that does not convert you then there is nothing more I can say apart from you are missing out on a great gaming experience.

Dreossk TrackIR works in more than one game. Have a look here http://www.naturalpoint.com/trackir/03-enhanced-games/enhanced-games-all.html A little more than one game! Oh and yes it is worth it for one game. TrackIR is the best thing for gaming since the evolution of the mouse.

46...one kid stuck in the living room and the wife is getting more savi as the years go by!! That reminds me the new version of TIR is not as susceptible to stray light as the older ones. The legs that are folded can be broken if you are ham fisted so please take care not to drop them or force them. Oh and yes that little black thing at the top of the packaging IS the TIR :)

Lets put it this way, to me it is the best thing to happen to gaming since the mouse was invented. TrackIR 5 is easilly the best version yet, I use the TrackClip Pro with my ver5. Wether it is good for you only you can decide. IF you spend a lot of time in any of the games that TIR is compatable with then I would say no harm in trying it out. I am not an employee of NP just a user since ver1. Today if a PC game does not use TIR then I am not interested in it.

When I got my first TIR (ver 1) the only game I had that used it was IL2, there were maybee 1 or 2 others that I did not have. I would say that if you spent a lot of time in 1 or 2 games that used TIR then I personally would go for it, and give it some time to get used to it.

Personally I use a lineae profile so I do not get any sudden 'jumps' when moving my head. If you do make your axis linear then drop them aswell to slow the speed off. I agree with Col.Flanders when he said "My argument lies here: Optics view is/was designed to look down ironsight/scope and take aim upon the enemy. Nothing more, nothing less. No peripheral vision should be included aside from the peripheral vision achieved by looking at the situation through your other eye - without moving your head." as the two things are different.

I have a profile on the Natural Point website called Barred's Racing. Give it a try I can always tweak it

Hey No Problem Kestrel. The offer is still there to give my TIR a shot.

Kestrel where do you live (pm me if you want) not because I want 'to send the boys around' but to offer you a go of ArmA with a TIR. Let have a look at your points which is why I offer you the shot at using a TIR because it is clear you have not. Point 1. Yes you are totally right, there is an un-natural curve. There has to be unless you are using some form of viewing glasses so you screen moves with your head, which a previous poster said would be great. When a monitor is used it does take some time to get use to this movement ratio. Point 2. Sorry it must be my English but it's meaning is confusing to me. The ratio of the view is controled by the software. It is you read movement that controles the speed of movement. You can have a straight ratio so your head does not have a 'dead zone' (which I prefere) or you can use a bell shaped curve with a 'dead zone' in the centre then there is an acceleration in relation to your head movement. When this is equal on both sides (left and right) depending on the requred axis then there is no noticable difference after a while. Remember when you first used a mouse, it took some time to become used to. Point 3. "Aiming with your cross hair anywhere but at center. Think about how you move your mouse to acquire a target with a fixed cross hair in an FPS. Now think about moving your mouse to a non-fixed cross hair." Aiming is controled by your mouse at all times. If you are looking to the right and you see a target, you then have to move around to the target. When the view is in sight view (double click right mouse button) the head tracking is turned off. Point 4. You only need one mapping curve (see point 2). There are 3 buttond that are mappable Pause, Centre, Precision. I have never needed to Pause the camera tracking because it is possible to map a dead zone in the centre if you want to. Centre I have always have mapped incase the the view wonders off the profile (which I have not needed to do with version4), I have even taken the head set off and when I put it back on the relationship was still the same. Precision, I really do not see why they are still there. The mapped keys use DirectInput. They are not used for hacking and since Version 4 the camera has not needed pausing 'because if your head goes out of range' (the tracking dots dissapear or get mixed up) Ver4 has kept the movement in it's head so when the dots come back into a recognisable position. phew!! Point 5. In the original IL2, TIR was patched in and yes it was possible to do a 'Linda Blair' and NP removed it in the next version of the software. This really showed those who needed/wanted to do a 'LB'. Anyway this was also possible using the hat switch. You could always use auto pan in game to lock beyond the drawing distance which you could not obviosly do with TIR as you needed to see the target. There was not any Oh lets keep it as it gives our customers an advantage. Go reasd NP's forums going back about 3-4 years ago. Point 6> Finally For open wheeled racin it is about 35deg off centre other wise you need the same panning axis that you need for flight sims to look over your shoulder and that is locked in Driver. I am not having a go Kestrel just answering your points. Please Kestrel , if we are close then come around and try TIR in ArmA. I had missgivings of how TIR would be implemented in a FPS after years of simming with TIR.

MehMan it was not untill I saw a video that I was convinced. A friend mentioned it and I thought 'yeah alright what ever' unlill I saw a vid of it in action. It then took me 6 months before I could get around the wife to get a TIR1 lwlooz apart from the language I hope that the software and hardware improve over time you should have seen version 1. It tv was used as a comparison between TIR 1 and 4 it is like going from black and white tv to colour. With the active tracker going to Hi Def. Kestral just kept complaining that the price was too high in a different way with each post no matter what was said. So I made my coment because how he was comming across. Any form of head movement TIR or Pan to Cam can add so much more to a game that untill you have tried it you would not believe it. Pan to Cam is a real PITA to get going for poor to average results. I have tried it with a reasonable webcam and it was very jerky and kept losing track. That is why I do not like Pan to Cam (going back to the tv anolagy it is like watching Nosferatu.)

Fair enough EricM and a good comment. Price to usage ratio (which is how I work it out.) I have spent on average 3 hours a day in a driving or flight sim using TIR for the last 3 years and gone through 3 versions for about 500 sterling. Doing the math it comes to 0.5 pence per hour of enjoyment. So I have the ability to look in a game for 0.5p/h at a conservative 3 hours a day. That to me is good value. Especially with the excelent customer support to me is great value for money.