unpronouncable

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (SpaceAlex @ May 23 2002,21:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Tanks will only shoot at Cobra, Kiowa and on blackhawk sometimes. they will not even move it they'l see apache or any other chopper in the air.<span id='postcolor'> A tank will shoot at anything it CAN shoot.. helicopters as well... the problem is hitting them... When (not if) they fire at the chopper they wont use the 7.62 co-ax machine gun, they will fire a sabot round (better possibility of hitting the chopper).. + a 7.62 machine gun range is only about 1000 meters (if you want to hit something, that is) A tank will NOT just watch a helicopter as it flyes around in the air, unless it is moving too fast (too fast for it to be shot down)... Yes, I am a real tank commander, and this is what i've been learned to do... of course this is always different depending on the situation... and i cant really speak of the tank tactics used in 1985 either...

thanks alot for the support guys.. sorry this post went out of subject.. hopefully there will be tank combat changes made in future patches...

im in a bit of a rush right now so i'll try and make this quick... I've never went personal on anyone here.. how can I? THIS IS A FORUM ON THE INTERNET! how can anyone take anything personal!? unless you are 9 year old girls or something... really... are you guys joking? And i still dont see why you have to defend the game so damn hard.. these developers get paid for for making this game, correct?!? its not like they go crying like you guys just did when someone doesnt like every aspect of their game, right? I'm sorry you take everything i say personal... i didnt mean to be insulting... but i'm even more sorry you hade to discuss that here instead of discussing what the topic is about.. i really hope you have a life outside of this forum... it could be good for you.. maybe a real life conflict will help you understand how unimportant this really is... oh.. was this insulting? i'm really extremely sorry... btw.. thanks everyone giving me tips on these realism mod's.. i'll give it a try... and no, i dont take any of this personal.

why is with everyone always quoting? dont you think ppl get it unless you quote every damn time you have to say something? it just makes every post twice as long.. so.. stop it.. ok? it isnt me who is driving up to the enemy.. its the enemy tanks who are driving up to me.. they way AI tanks behave.. both your platoon tanks and the enemy tanks.. it just makes me cry... (and its not tears of joy) just standing and shooting at eachother makes no sense at all... and the only reason your lame tactics work in the game is because the AI tanks dont realize that if they stand still in the same place for five minutes after being shot at someone will shoot at them again from a different angle.. so they just stand there hoping you will turn up again at the ordinary spot... you have to be a retarded tank commander to act like that.. outflanking-maneuvring only works because the enemy AI is sooo daaaamn slow... (i said they stand still for five minutes becase that is how long it takes to get your platoon togheter and taking it 100 yards in cover to the left or right after hitting into eachother about 55 times, doing more damage to themself than the enemy has) this realism in tank combat you are talking about... i guess you are talking single tank combat... who gives about that? what really matters is platoon combat.. there are no single tanks in war(well.. of course there's single tanks but they always act as a platoon in a company)... The platoon aspect of the OFP tank game is impossible to use in a realistic ways... no matter what you say.. the tank AI commanders in platoon is just too damn retarded... for example: when i order "reverse" on my platoon (for example if there is a large enemy in front of us) all the other tanks in my pluton turnt 180 and drive with their weakest point towards the enemy(!! WHY ARE YOU DEFENDING THIS ASPECT OF THE GAME!? OH MY GOD WHYYYYYY!! Do you guys have your nose up the developers ass or something? i think the tank AI is worth working on.. why? because i think tanks are the coolest thing in the world.. its not cool running around in tight black pants and a cute matching top with an mp5 in the dark placing satchel charges and then running away to hide... i would take my platoon, get on the top of a hill.. and fire heat rounds for a couple of days where you would have put your charges... and laugh while i was doin it...

Tex.. too bad everyone doesnt use that argument and have your attitude.. then we'd all give a fuck about trying to make anything better... there is difference in trying to make a BORING SIM GAME vs trying to get an REALISTIC ACTION GAME... as I said earlier : "too much realism isnt fun in a game (hey.. its suppose to be a game! But it woudnt kill me if the tank tactic basics were true to real life" by the way.. I managed to find some previous posts about tank realism.. some of them very amusing ones.. for example: seems alot of ppl think the driver cant be directed.. they press the left button, the driver makes a quick left turn and then goes straight forward again.. hahaha... try HOLDING the left turn button... btw.. this is the best way directing the driver... AND most realistic.. in a real life tank you dont say "left left.. more left.. a little bit more left.. oh.. right... no.. left... some more left.. there!" In a real tank you say: "left!... (the driver starts turning left til you say:) "..forward!" ... Actually, when you have to direct the driver like this you're probably just a really bad tank commander... or your driver sucks... Another really amusing thing was this guy saying he wanted a "ride in back" option for the tanks since the loader spot is empty in the game... lol and another guy said its unrealistic how the trees doesnt slow the tank down... eh.. excuse me.. where talking 60 tons moving at 40mph... trees sure didnt slow my tank down... the only unrealistic thing about trees is that the driver seems to be doing everything to hit them...

thank you for sharing that.

ok.. sorry I couldnt find previous tank related posts... I suck ok!? now you dont have to tell me again that it's already been discussed before, like you've already did twice... anyway... I think its a big drawback of the game when tanks face eachother... did they even look into tank tactics while making this game? they really dont behave like real tanks.. they behave like idiots.. going with full speed right into the face of the enemy (like 2 feet away) and then just stand there firing and firing agan... this is kinda sad cus it could be really cool if they would act more combat.. like taking alternative firing positions and moving in the terrain like someone with a brain, not driving in to eachother, not hitting every tree you can see.. (you give away your position when you do things like that) But I guess you have to be a real tank commander to realize how bad the tank simulation part of this game really is.. Tex... steel beasts is a good game, yes.. but not as good as OF could be if they fixed the tank bit... too much realism isnt fun in a game (hey.. its suppose to be a game! But it woudnt kill me if the tank tactic basics were true to real life... but.. no matter how they would do it I guess there's always going to be someone that is unhappy about it anyway...

ok.. I've looked around in the forums, even using the search utility but i havent found a single post refering to the unrealism of tanks in operation flashpoint. Maybe I just suck at finding the right treads or maybe no-one cares... anyway.. here goes... When it comes to the tanks in OF they really arent realistic at all... I have some examples... I dont know if anyone out there cares.. but I do.. it would be cool to have some of these things fixed in a later patch... (i still have the original version so maybe it has been fixed) in that case.. please let me know.. ;-) Tactics: In a tank platoon you never ever have such tight formations as there always are in OF.. exept if the terrain only allows short spacing between tanks.. the tank commanders in OF can almost reach out and touch eachother for cryin out loud... In real life tank combat this is really really bad because you dont want the enemy to locate your whole platoon that easy.. + a single platoon could pass the enemy without even noticing it as every gunner in the platoon sees basically the same area in their sights.. this is especially bad if you are defending... You should atleast be able to order the distance between your platoon in OF.. maybe something like "Close", "Normal", "Broad" ? Armour/Protection: sure.. the m1a1 is a pretty good tank.. good protection.. but.. NO TANK IN THE WORLD can take one (or more) T-(55,72,80) sabots in the front, side or back without having major damage to them and probably getting killed... the only area that may be capable of a direct hit is the front of the turrent... You might refer to what happend in the gulf war, when the american crew's could find rests of enemy projectils stuck in their front armour and didnt even know they got hit.. these where at ranges >3000 meters... you barely encounter enemy tanks at more than 500 meters in OF... often they are about 100-200 meters from you... there also is an other issue (i dont know the english word for it).. but basically.. when your tank gets a hit that doesnt even penetrate the armour, the crew doesnt just shake their heads and begin fighting back... it will take atleast (well.. no one really knows) a couple seconds to 60 seconds for the crew to get their act together again... (+ wiping their asses after shitting and pissing in their pants (yes, this is a normal reaction of being in combat)) this ofcourse depending a bit on how experiensed and well trained the crew is... What i'm trying to say is... the kind of tank battle's you get in OF is not even close to realistic... if you put two tanks up on eachother you always get a kind of behaviour when they are standing 20 meters from eachother and shooting one projectile after another til one dies... In real life when a tank gets a hit it should fire its smoke grenades and reverse into cover (depending on situation) War experiense say that in 8 out of 10 encounters the tank that fires the first round wins... not the tank with the strongest armour... Technical issues: As far as i know.. the M1A1 didnt have image intensifiers but IR senors? I dont think any of the tanks in OF had image intensifers in the gunners scope? i'm pretty sure the russians had IR sensors on their tanks even in 1985... totally unrealistic... actually i dont think the choppers and/or the airplanes had image intensifiers either.. especially not the gunners... Another thing... the tank is a M1A1.. not a M1A2.. whats the deal with the commander being able to zoom in and out of the terrain? the commander in the M1A1 doesnt have a independent sight, as far as i know? The loading times of the main gun are far to long.. a good loader loades the main gun in about 3-4 seconds.. probably longer in rough terrain... The co-ax machine gun can hardly be fired 500 rounds in a row without being overheated... The strenght of the M1A1's engine is under dimensioned... VERY under dimensioned.. its much much stronger in real life and doesnt have any problems climbing hills as it has in the game... There is a couple of 100 more things i could whine about.. ;-) but it seems unrealistic for me to ask for everything from this game that really isnt a true tank sim... but it got pretty close for not even trying... ?