shinRaiden

And what do you suppose Kerry would do about the situation with Arafat? Jerusalem Post

And what about the human shield / volunteer hostages that went to gaurd the AAA batteries dug into school playgrounds? What about their reports that they were moved to obvious military installations? Albert, you are accusing the US of incompetently doing what Saddam was given a pass to do efficently for 20 years. Is there a difference in 'civilian' and 'military' casulties? Was Leon Klinghoffer, pushed off a cruise liner in a wheelchair by Abu Nidal - who was given refuge and medical treatment by Saddam - an enemy combatant? When the military has their hands tied by those that wish to cut off those hands, they are restricted from competently fulfilling their mission, resulting in unneccessary casulties on all sides. If you go running out in traffic, who's fault is it if you turn into a road muffin? Not the driver's. Where did the civilian casulties in Kuwait come from? If that war was about oil as folks claimed, then why is this war about oil if Iraq has little to no oil that they had to invade Kuwait over it? What about the Scuds in Israel? Were the Israelis as a nation and people to be held responsible for American defense of Kuweit? Were the Israelis to be punished for defending the cause of nuclear non-proliferation by bombing Tuweitha? How many civilian casulties as opposed to military - if you divide the two - would have been lost had Saddam put a hotbox in one of those scuds?

Well, I'm tired from getting out the vote, divided about the next step in my involvement in the process, and apathetic about the chances of you ever figuring out why you lost the 'predictable' election. NBC did have a good spot tonight about how the Democratic party is in a 20-year decline over all, because they do not represent the mainstream or the normal. So from here out, I'm envigorated, the party is more united, and the young ranks of volunteers - and not paid Union agents outsourcing the campaigning - are enthusiastic about '05, '06, '07, and '08. I look forward to singing along with many others "Ding dong the witch is dead" at the top of my lungs Nov 4th 2008. -edit- Hmm... new moral question... do I 'commemorate' my 666th post?

1) Gay marriage is part of the moral question of 'what is marriage, and what is its place in society.' 2) Iraqi and Kurdish refuges who lost their entire families and would not give their names in public even in the US, have repeatedly say that were Saddam to remain in power, there would continue to be deliberate civilian casualties in the prisions and gassed villages in counts far greater than the numbers that would die in the course of war by accident. As I asked earlier, the moral question is 'is it right to die for a cause', and secondly 'is the risk of accidently casulties instead of more numerous deliberate casulties a morally acceptable risk?' Take the Israeli-Palestinian situation, as well as the Bin Laden video recently released. To the terrorists, there are no civilians. To blow up shoppers and police recruits and commendeer schools is to attack for them enemy combatants. Finally on that nice round number of 100 000, from personal experience I have learned to heavily discount the news from both sides from the middle east. The symbols and imagery in many instances have more cultural meaning to the people than the statistics preferred by the pundits. Even here in our "Million man marches" struggling to break a couple hundred thousand, the message is a political one, not a statistical on. Is 100 000 dead 'worse' than one? Is 100 000 accidental casulties better than 5 million non-accidental civilian casualties? 3) Condoms are a moral question dealing with the purpose of life and family relationships, and the foundations to define society. 4) Environmentalism is a particularly messed up topic. Outside the Mt. Saint Helens National Monument, any traces of the devestation from the 1980 eruption have disappeared from proactive forest management. Conversely, the interior of the monument, where 'interference' is strictly prohibited, much remains a desolate landscape. Now my county council just passed on party lines an illegal and unrequired ordinance that in order to preserve the 'rural' character of the rural areas, property owners - includeing Public schools - will be restricted from building on 65% of their land, in addition to existing 300ft (100m) setbacks from any standing water, even if the body of water was artificially created. The reason for the 300ft, as entered into testimony by a state dept. of Ecology agent, was based on an average tree height of 150ft (75m), and was designed to garauntee that were a tree to fall into the creek creating natural fish habitat, the property owner would not be allowed to touch that tree. This has led to cases of flooding from improper drainage destroying rather than protecting salmon spawning grounds. It also legally prevents the property owner from putting trees into the creek to deliberately create habitat to attempt to compensate for the Tribal gill netting, banned worldwide except for aboriginal populations. In defense of this ordinance, a local activist stood up and congratulated the council in heading in the right direction towards population management. When questioned about his statement that the world was already over-populated and what he would do about it, he ducked it by saying that it was a national issue. Ebenezer Scrooge in Charles Dickens "A christmas carol" summed it up along those lines when responding to a solicitation for charity: There is not an over-population problem, there is an under-charity problem. Why are people starving in Dafur? There's no want for bread in America, but the relief agencies are turned back at the borders or robbed. So the question of dealing with the environment again comes back to my 'moral economics' of are humans an asset or a liability to nature? There is room to log and plant trees. There is room to fish and build stream beds. There is room to grow wheat and wildflowers. There is room to feed the masses, and there is room for them to build houses and families to continue to care for the land so that others too may benefit.

What you can not understand is how I of my own free will and reason came to these positions that I believe to be sensible. When I listen to talk radio etc, the feeling is "he agrees with me" rather than "I agree with what he's feeding me". You can't comprehend it because it is outside your dead end box. Actually, it is you who should be thanking us conservatives for having the patience to put up with you, and who remain active in bring light to those that sit (some of which I might add - willingly) in darkness, despite all the debris thrown at us in the process.

I'm wearing this shirt right now, and I've worn it and the one on my avatar all over the county this summer and fall. The coolest thing was at the Meydenbauer Convention Center out in the eastside suburbs last night for the Washington State Republican Party party, about half the packed crowd was kids my age and college republicans. Contrast that to the Democrats party in the Westin down town where the video showed mainly old party apparatchiks. At our party we also had a bunch of families, and even a number of really young kids enjoying the atmosphere and the chance to stay up way past their bedtime. The result of this is that in 2000, the election was close, it widened here, and the gap is only going to get wider as the Democrats continue to pervert and subvert foundations of morals. Here's the real economic issue. Conservatives view humans and families as assets, Liberals view them as liabilities. Conservatives take care of the environment and encourage it's health because it helps us and it's our obligation. Liberals fence it off and chase out the people, leaving nature to rot. Conservatives expect that you will be responsible for your self, and work to make provisions so you can take care of yourself. Liberals believe that you're not adequately capable of taking care of yourself, therefore you should more or less be a ward of the state on welfare. Conservatives believe that opportunity and accountibility also extend into healthcare, in having the oppotunity to select providers eager to serve you and your business. While the so-called Diversity Experts among the liberals claim that people are all different, in reality they attempt to impose uniform generic medicine. Conservatives also hold the moral principal of self-determination. Everyone is entitled to life, liberty, and the pursuit of happiness, along with the oppotunity to vote against that or abstain from voting. Liberals use the ruse of prior ignorance or abuse to justify their continuing sociatal enslaving and manipulation. Conservatives believe that it is all humanity's imperative to better ourselves and each other. As Liberals view themselves as already enlightened, those who aren't along for the ride are inferior and thus are to be managed when willing, and disciplined when not. There is a big difference in this rising young conservative generation. The hippies earlier rejected law and order and discipline. Today the 'rebels' are rejecting the self-aggrandizment of the self-certified intellectual establishment and questioning the validity and bias of their arguements. The difference is that we're not resisting lawlessness, we're looking for law and order, and we're saying the 2 and 2 you're giving us is not making 5 like you said it would. And when we ask why shouldn't it be 4, you get all huffy because 'how dare the students question the teacher'. Well I can and do, and things are looking good for a good long time to come.

And how would you know that I'm sensible? All the 'experts' say I'm not, but I still persist... For all you know I'm secretly an Andrew Tannenbaum with a secret agenda to subvert all conservatism through craftily phrased wastes of verbage. Is it sensible to be persistent in the face of opposition? Take how many Americans and British died in WW2, that persistance was pretty stupid right, look how many British and American soldiers died on somebody else's pet cause. Consider insult added to injury where all the poor starving citizenry struggling to survive the Great depression was then placed on rations for everything from underwear to toothpaste. Victory soup anyone? Or all the casualties in Asia. Asia's over there, and besides, it was a little military base in an imperialist colony of oppressed people that got hit on Dec. 7th. etc. etc., and all the other previously rehashed arguements about the issues vs. the details. Why the concern about the House and Senate among the Republicans and the downplaying by the media? Because it is a move towards breaking the political stonewalling of the Democrats in appointing judges, who are hearing moral issue cases raised by the liberal organizations.

Well I guess my ass is yours f*&kface. I guess iB code is written the way it is for a reason. The real question in response to your first post here is... Why? Why can't say say what you presume to be delusional ravings any more than you should be able to say what I presume to be nonsensical drivel? Shutting people up ends the debate and turns it into a monologue, which I doubt will hold the attention of either side for very long.

except that the Czech Republic is further east in Europe, and perhaps the US government would be interested in investing in eastern europe as a means to try to influence/split the EU. This could bring good things for OFP2 and VBS. iirc, Bush asked Mullah Omar for Bin Laden, and said that was all he wanted. Omar said "no, and death to America, etc-etc", and Bush said "Fine, you're part of the problem, you're going too."

What do do about terrorism... is a moral question Is Iraq part of a larger "war on terror"... is a moral question What is the vision of America vs. the world... is a moral question Gay Marriage... is a moral question Economy and taxes in the role of Government... is a moral question Is social security a good idea... is a moral question Should social security be supported or phased out... is a moral question Should healthcare be provided or earned... is a moral question Does unpatriotic slander and chacter matter... is a moral question Are those aborted human or not... is a moral question Do the courts judge on the rights of theory or the rule of law... is a moral question

Which is why Powell has fit in so well over in the 'Foggy Bottom' of the State Department.

Well at least you're agreeing with the mullahs that America is the "Great Satan".

Hmm. Kerry conceded, and graciously too. But he had to force John Edwards to shut up because Edwards was trying to do to Kerry what you're accusing Cheney of doing to Bush, ie playing puppetmaster. But the self-credentialed pundits aren't giving up, and it is they who are continuing to wring their hands in dismay for the voters ignoring all their carefully crafted attempts at mind-control and manipulation through the Mainstream Media.

And the swifties check in: Statement by Adm. Hoffman (ret.) Contrasted with Kerry's concession speech: www.johnkerry.com And speak the truth they did. Thank you.

The whole reason for using a 2000-pound bomb is to minimize the chance the target has to escape and to minimize civilian casualties. The other option is to send in a heavily armed convoy/group and hope that they can cut their way through the resistance and civilian mobs to reach the target before the target has a chance to escape. Unfortuantely civilians are know to do stupid things like run out in front of cars and step out in public during running gun-battles and throw rocks at soldiers who are in the process of returning enemy fire. In anycase, there will be significant damage to the target's locations, and heavy casualties on both sides. In war, if you have to decide between casualties on both sides, or casualties on 'their' side, which would you choose?

But, there is a ray of black light for the democrats. Because of their massive voter registration campaigns with less-than-competant administration, a whole pile of people's voter registrations got confused. For example, in speaking with the poll workers and inspectors as well as voters, it appeared that there was a significant number of registrations that should have been changed registrations that were actually processed as new registrations. Also there were mixups on the changes and other stuff as well. This resulted in nearly 6% provisional ballots being cast in my polling place. I'm out in a rural, sparsely populated and mainly conservative area. I think other areas may have been significantly higher, maybe above 10% or more. The very real concern is that these ballots now exist for Edwards' partners to litigate over. One of my poll-watching assistants, a man 3 times my own age, said that in the good old day, your registration and your vote was your own responsibility. If you couldn't bother to pay attention to your registration and get it done right, you obviously couldn't be bothered to pay attention to your ballot either. I don't know what the numbers look like in the other states, but this is still a rather large grey area that still needs to be watched out for.

Hallelujah, and God bless the Swifties. They stuck their necks out and got out the truth. Actually, thank you to the 'lost' generation that went to 'Nam, this is a step towards the true thank you they truelly deserve. Heres a report from Washington state. First off, the Democrats Outsourced My Polling Place. They couldn't be bothered to send any poll watchers, or to send anyone to look at the lists to get out the vote, allthough they have pulled as much as 45-47% for the seven precincts that vote there. So they outsourced the pollwatching to the Unions, in this case the International Aerospace Machinists Union. The union didn't have anybody in my area to do the work, so they paid to ship a couple shop stewards in from over a hour's drive away who were also given the day off as a paid holiday. They didn't have a 10th the list we did, and relying on Mapquest got themselves good and lost. Meanwhile I was the chief GOP observer there from opening to closing, and worked with several other Precinct Committee Chairmen to read the list of signed in voters, update our list, call in the changes to our district chair, who faxed them to the state campaign office, and then got them in the database so the East Coast phone banks could help us out. One voter told me on the way out the door that he appreciated my work (thought I was a democrat observer) and they would be back later to do what I was doing. Never showed up. SLACKERS... Anyway, Washington state changed parties to the Republicans for the Attorney General and it looks like for the Governor as well. 400 vote difference, still waiting on more absentees. Go DI-NOOOO... The Sheriff who kicked the WTO protesters out of Seattle and captured the Green River Killer is going to DC retaining for the GOP one of the most contested Congress races this year. The county council also is getting reduced in size and put on a tighter leash as well, God bless Kent Pullen, may he finally rest in peace. But most importantly, Four More Years!!! The right man will continue to be in the right place to be able to get the right job done at the right time. But unlike Kerry's plans, Bush won't be muzzleing his media opposition. Ah, it was great to see them sweat. At the huge Republican State party last night, about half in attendance were young college kids, and parents with their younger kids. As new state attorney general Rob McKenna said, "The real issue to the voters wasn't the War or the Economy, it was about Moral Values." I turned to King County Councilman Rev. Steve Hammond who had a visible sigh of relief (McKenna was also on the council until stepping down at the end of this year to be AG) and said "How often do we hear that from a politician?" So God Bless Washington State, God bless George Bush, and God Bless America.

First off you put my name on a quote I did not make, instead of just commenting to that effect. Secondly, there is nothing that says I can't say what you are doing is smoke and mirrors and general FUD as well. I can either spend time arguing about the mush you are trying to put in people's heads, or I can use that same time instead to try and put some of my own in instead. But I'm off to the phone banks and to hang out with the best Anarchist-kicking Sheriff on the West Coast. I won't be back until probably wednesday, tomorrow's a busy day. God Willing, Four More years of leadership under Bush to try to destroy the evils about in this world, and bring justice to the oppressed. Good night.

No, 2nd Amd. doesn't come until much, much later. What we can expect is that there will be immediate litigation surrounding recounts and probably electronic voting machines. That's where it gets tricky, because all the constitutional provisions have to deal with the assumption that there is usable votes. The usability is what will be contested. As the charges will significantly include voter fraud, that would cast doubt on a voter's entire ballot, not just their presidential choices. In which case, it could very well be that the congress could determine the election, with the health of Rhenquist in doubt. But as the entire house of representatives is up for re-election, they wouldn't be elected until the elections are certified, and they won't be certified until the litigation issues are cleared up. So the courts have until mid-January to finish arguing the ballot validity, after which time it would be up to the incumbent govenors and legislators not up for re-election to appoint congress people to then pick a president. As I said previously, you are not voting just for George Bush, there are many dozens of other positions just as equally vital: President Vice-President Senator Representative Govenor Lt. Govenor Attorney General (Other Dept. Sec.'s) Secretary of State State Senator State Legislator County Executive County Councilperson Mayor Municipal councilmember Rural Fire Districts School Boards Bonds Levies Initiatives Propositions and more in your area. All these are critical to make the system work.

Oh, since I'm notoriously sloppy at posting smilies to indicate when I'm makeing a light-hearted statement, and folks like to explode over ever jot and tittle I quote because they get offended over every little jab on their sanctimonius whited sepulchures of intellectualism, here's some smilies: Don't freak out, there will be a tomorrow and the day after as well. Relax, have a good night's sleep, go vote, and be happy.

I'm suprised that that this thread has lasted to some 262+ pages, since politics is inherently flame-baiting. Or maybe it's frostbite, as icey wit could induce freezerburn among those that insist on standing n3k1d out in the cold harsh real world. UK Gaurdian interviews Tom Wolfe Meanwhile, the democrats continue to fabricate statements and attributions: AP wire Drudge has the following statement:

Umm, no. When they threatened to draft all the nurses in WW2, my grandmother chose to enlist instead to get the better ranking. The draft was still on in Vietnam, and you had just a few choices, wait for your number like Spc. Pitkin, enlist like Bush and Kerry, try for an academic or ministerial deferment like many others, or go smoke dope in Oxford like Clinton. John Kerry lied before congress for personal profit, and suborned the testimony of others. To this day 33 years later, he still defends not only that false testimony, but in rejecting the ideal of defending the cause of freedom. George Bush has been accused of the same thing, but the very best you can do is point out that he was fed information that was not retroactively substaniated. The aspects of day-to-day tactics of course are changing, anybody would be an idiot not to do so. But the principle strategy remains absolutely clear - defend the cause of Human Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of happiness at whatever sacrifice needed - and will continue to move forward, unless America votes to turn their backs on humanity tomorrow.

Well the abbreviated edition Akira posted is definately applesauce, there's a lot more to what Kerry had to say. Wintersoldier.com - Part one of two Entire transcript also available as a pdf there. Additional historical documents Wintersoldier.com Have a little cinnamon with your applesauce. Hey, lets add suborning perjury to Kerry's war crimes list: Sworn affidavit of Spc. Pitkin

Kerry claimed he was a war criminal, and did so before the Senate. Kerry claimed his actions were atrocities, however there is no effort on his part to legally rectify his own 'war crimes'. Of course, if you ask the North vietnamese, they're confused as well. they don't think Kerry is a war criminal, even though Kerry said it himself.

Hi all The groundswell is happening with more and more states looking to turn red. Latest polls and electoral college monitors show a possible mandate confirmation for the Bush Cheney Campaign. This will only be possible if You get out and vote on Tuesday Morning at 6 o' clock. If you have to go latter dont leave it too late the queues are going to be massive. Get in that queue. Stay in that queue and vote for George Bush. Remember Your Vote Counts In this election, above any other your vote counts, your vote could be the one that tips the balance in your state. Even states with that apeared to have a dubious Kerry lead are now up for grabs with the massive increase in the number of voters. No matter which state you are in; GET OUT AND VOTE! 7 States (103 electoral votes) are up for easy grabs If you live anywhere you must, must, must get out and vote. Latest polls put it well within the margin for error and with 11% more new voters from all demographics including concerned young Republicans, it is easily winable for George Bush if you Get out and Vote Be determined to make a diference. Go equiped for a long queue. Remember to wrap up warm take Umbrelas. Go with friends so you can take turns at toilet breaks. Take food and drinks or order piza. Stay friendly. Stay calm. Stay in the vote Remember be friendly in the queue. Do not get drawn in to big arguments. If there are Democrats or Socialists there be friendly. Remember you are there to elect the next President of the United states of America, and ~33 senators and many congresspeople and govenors and legislators and local officials and judges and ballot measures. Focus on that job. Enjoy your election Remember this is your election. Your vote is what counts. It is YOU that is deciding the next president of the United States of America, his mandate, and the people to help get it done. Get out at 6 0' Clock in the morning on Tuesday. Make a Day of it. Make a carnival of it. Take picknic or order Pizza in the queue but get out and Vote. And Vote George Bush for President. If you experience any difficulties in polling, please immediately notify the poll monitors at your polling place. Official party representatives (such as my self) at the polling places will be there to assist you in reporting any cases of voter intimidation, fraud, or other attempts to deny you the legitimate right to vote. Please be respectful of your polling place. Many sites such as schools, churches, and fire stations may have other operations going on during the course of the day. The polling place is for you to vote at, not to preach in. God Bless America, no one else will. shinRaiden.