scout

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then tell me this if they had it sow bad why diden't they imgrate to us or other countrys. Like let's take europe many of the jews from emegritad to us .<span id='postcolor'> there are couple of reasons to that: 1. post WWII world didnt seem safe enough for jews anymore. 2. since most of them came from backwards countries, they didnt know of the US or Canada, and what they did know about europe was Gas chambers (jews from Vichi Africa were sent to gas chambers too) 3. many didnt have enough funds. 4. most jews from these countries are quite religious, and the true aspiring of a jew was to come to "eretz-Hakodesh" the holy land. when the oportunity came, they came. they wouldnt hadnt the Israeli Govt. paid heavy ransom for them and most had to leave their property there. still they came. only couple of tens selected to stay, mainly to maintain the synagouges and tombs. edit: since most european jews were more educated and less religious they decided to go to other places though the extremely religious thought non-religious Israel is defiling gods name.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Hmmm is that why many of the jews that are today in israel are arab jews. And i am shure that if will travel to iran iraq or saudia arabia i will find synagoges. In fact there was no problem betwen the jews and arabs. The problem started in late otoman empire when the jews where imagrating from europe and buying land from the turks. <span id='postcolor'> yeah, tell that to my girlfriends grandmother that came from morroco, or the other one who came from Tunisia. or wait........ tell that to my friends' wife who grandparents are from Iraq and Syria. i'd love to see what their answer would be. it would be also facinating to know that most of these people are right wingers, and claim their beliefs upon experience of their ancestors. edit: para: tell me this. how many refujees ran away from the west bank in '67? how many ran away BEFORE israeli dorces entered the city? why we let them stay if we're trying to force them out. why did we let '48 arabs stay?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thats just plain rubbish. Read about Saladin and the crusades, he was always fair with the Jews, The trouble began when arab land was taken by Israel.<span id='postcolor'> in the 18th century, in Damascus, jews were accused of killing a muslim for producing "Matzo" bread.tell what land did we occupy then? as Islamic culture deteriorated more and more Pogroms and Anti-Jewish acts were commited. actual Anti-Semetism is an import from europe. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It is not my opinion, it is clear to anyone objectivley looking at the problem. Analyitical skills produce facts from data. Elementary logic of thought.<span id='postcolor'> uh-huh.......right.......arent we confident.......

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I'll tell you the reason behind it, Militant Zionism, Taking as much land for the Jewish people as possible. That has been it's goal since it was conceived. Yes the Jewish people should have a homeland (they already do) but it shouldn't be at monumental cost to others, who have a right to live where they have for centuries<span id='postcolor'> well, unlike you i dont state things as facts unless i know them to be true. if its your opinion, say so. otherwise refrain from it.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">By brutalising Palestine you give the arabs a reason to hate and fight you.<span id='postcolor'> they dont need an excuse. they've been doing that since Islam was founded. action-counteraction. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Then was it also a massacre when a bunch of settlers conspired to kill Palestinian civilians on purpose today in Hebron, even though they only managed to shoot a 12-year-old girl looking out from her balcony? <span id='postcolor'> READ YOU OWN LINK! </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Palestinians threw stones at the settlers, who were returning from the funeral of the Israeli soldier and fellow settler, killed in a roadside ambush by Palestinian militants on Friday. Two Jewish settlers and their son were also killed in that attack. The settlers opened fire, hitting the girl, Nizin Jamjoun, as she stood on the balcony of her house, according to her brother. <span id='postcolor'> where is the conspiracy? where is the preplaning? where is the intention? the massacre here is the one on the two settlers and their son who were killed. the shooters acted criminaly and should be tried. but i didnt see anything in YOUR! link suggesting they went and looked for people to kill, CONTRARY to palestinian armed organizations. edit: Para: nice of you to qoute only the part that suits you.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How can you be so sure that they are by no means an interfering factor in any kind of negotiations when you don't even know why Israel is building them? <span id='postcolor'> i said i dont know cause i dont know the real reason behind it, though i have some educated guess. bu that doesnt contradict the ability to reach an agreement, in the 1979 peace with Egypt every single settlement was demolished and evacuated. many more serious issues are at hand and are interfering. unfortunatly, turnning the lights on the settlement blinds you to the real problems between us and them.

here are some more detail

bad maintnance is the main problem, plus the fact that pilots get less and less flight hours. it all sums to funds, and money is scarce there. it wouldnt be the first cock up of the Ukranian armed forces.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">How many Palestinians must die before the media can call it a massacre and how many Israelis? Does it make you equally angry, Scout, when the Israeli media refers to the killing of 10 of its citizens as a massacre? ...Or are Israeli lives worth more than Palestinian lives?<span id='postcolor'> when there is a massacre then its called one, like the Goldstein massacre for example. thats when someone conspired to kill civilians on porpuse you know........ </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Why has Israel continued to build hundreds of settlements that would surely be evacuated when there is a peace settlement?<span id='postcolor'> good question, i'd like to know that too........

so many things are happening around the middle east.... the Kurds are oppressed, both by the turks and Iraqis, killed and gassed, Iran is funding and training the Hizbullah, responsible for the death of french and US troops, and the killing of several embassy employees, Syria thats now a security council member, massacred in 1985 in Hamma more then 25000 people, Saudi Arabia, funding organizations like Hamas and Islamic Jihad, Egypt oppressing Christian Copts, and state funding some of the worst Anti-Jewish literature (same stuff Nazi germany published), and so on and so on....... deaths in Ruanda, mass murder of whites in Rhodesia, East Timoe and Ceylon, Human rights violation in China and killing of live babies, Chechnya, Half world going in flames, and the mideast yet all this thread goes around is Israel........ thank you gentlemen for such a vast interest, im really flattered..... </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">And at the end of the Cold War when Israel needed more immigration, they made a deal with the Soviets to trade US secrets for Russian Jews. It worked, but their spy, American Jonathon Pollard eventually got caught and is now in a US prison<span id='postcolor'> Koo koo.........

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">what kind of rifle are they holding? is that suppressor i see?<span id='postcolor'> yes it is. and the weapons are M-4.

look here, there also some more links from this site.

i for myself recognise the fact that there is are people (palestinians) living on the ground. since we dont want to make them citizens i see that it is pointless building them in places that would surely be evacuated in any futuristic settlement. for that reason i view populating the golan heights legit. there are no Syrian residents there, and the Syrians lost the land, fair and square. west bank and gaza are, as i've said another deal. all this doesnt interfere reaching an agreement about the extent of withdrawl, and the type of agreement. other factors do.

I commented of you saying that this conflict isnt about Israels survival, and showed you it is very much about this issue. if you are asking me about settlements in the west bank and gaza , then i would say to you that once an agreement is achieved the settlements would be evacuated, just like the case in 1979 peace agreement with Egypt. the settlements are by no means a interfering factor in any kind of negotiations although i dont approve of them. but that is not the question.

here is a joke: a russian goes to a doc, cause his belly aches. the doc inspects him and says: "sorry we have to remove one of yer lungs" "why? what happened? i dont smoke!" "well there is nothing wrong with your lung. we just need to make room for your liver......." how IS your liver mate?

Just remembered! slice a potato and rub it in the inside of the goggles, the starch will prevent fogging. we had the same problem with driving in open vehicles.

as a part of a fun-day in the army we were take to a ......paintball field. it was one platoon against the other. brrrrrrrrr........it was a good thing it was only paint and not real bullets.

yup! you can make that every one that signs for the first time gets a msg with the rules. and new announcements are made in this forum.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The bible is a 2000 year old instruction manual on how to live your life. Â My essential problem is that people generally only use the bits of the bible they want to believe in, and discard the rest. <span id='postcolor'> we call it the "Salad Bar" syndrom unfortunatly we dont know how the Eco-System will react to these changes. Example: world weather reacts to changes with a delay of 100 years. this means that we are now paying the price for things done in the 19th century. what would happen next?

msg a mod about this, or an Admin. im with you on this!

here is a funny: when i was in New Zealand i hanged about in the pub, and heard this story. a fella and hi buddies drank the day before in the pub, and since they drank a lot, they decided to go home by foot. in the morning one of them came back to pick up his car. the police stopped him and check for alcohol. he was found with 3 times the allowed quantity of alcohol in the blood. bummer! seriously, in WWII my grandpa told me they got 100 ml of vodka a day and 300 ml of avgas! talking about drinking weird stuff. i know that in WWII Aqua Velva was popular among US troops.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">sign the peace proposal know and let's disscus Jerusalem later. But if Arafat did that he will be dead right now killed by is one people<span id='postcolor'> so what? does that means that because someone would try to kill him we need to give up? Rabin took the risk, Sadat took the risk. why is Arafat so special? and no! what was purposed to Arafat was Arab neighborhoods in eastern Jerusalem, Abu-Dis as the seat of the PA. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The reason that jerusalem is sow inportant ot the arab world is that the quran it says that a muslim has to make a pilgrimage once in his life time and he must visit jurasalem and meka. And as  we know how big the religion plays in the middle east that will angerd the hole arab world<span id='postcolor'> are you for real? the Arabs had held Jerusalem almost always. Joradn Occupied Jerusalem since 1948 and didnt make it a Capital, nor did the turks. The pilgrimage is only to mecca. the Mount Temple is the third in importance to the muslim but the first to the Jews. according to your logic there shouldnt be even a discussion about it. what angers the whole arab world is the existance of Israel it self. Just look at the media in these countries throughout the last 50 years. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Scout pls tell me hypothetical let's say you  where a palestinan and your father and brother just died in the last attak with the f16 and you are poor you mother can barely support you and there future is looking dark. Do you think you need a book or a person to tell you that you are hating the jews. Or go up and blow yourself up. Those people aren't blowing themselfs up because it's fun or because they live in vilas. They blow them self because they think this is the only way that they can get rid of their life and because they think it's the way for independence. <span id='postcolor'>in the '50 Israelis were poor and it was dengarous to go outside at night because most chances you would be killed. I didnt see any Israeli strap a bomb on himself an go out killing some civilians then. that no excuse, non what so ever. it alarms me you are trying to Justify such acts. edit: what ive shown you proves that even if we gave them the west bank and gaza they intend to continue to terrorize us. can you grant us that a withdrawl will end hostilities?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I dont get it? <span id='postcolor'> LOL sorry, its my distorted sence of humor. i just held my breath for about 3.5 minutes.

hmm....any russian here tried "samagon"? that a nasty stuff. in its essence it is distilled alcohol made of anything organic and rates upto 70% alcohol. first time ive drank it, i was 14 and, well, turned out that i can be an exellent free diver

Bernadotte: </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> I have a big problem believing that this conflict is about Israel's survival.<span id='postcolor'> do you now? well let me help you. qoute:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thus, for example, Faysal Al-Husseini, reiterated his position on the matter several times. For example, during a speech in Lebanon, he said, "A distinction must be drawn between the strategic aspirations of the Palestinian people, who are unwilling to relinquish a single speck of Palestinian territory, and [their] political striving, connected to the balance of power and the nature of the current international system… Our eyes will continue to be lifted to the strategic goal - that is, a Palestine from the river to the sea – [and] what we take today cannot make us forget this supreme truth."[1] <span id='postcolor'> thats the chief negotiator and a great "moderate". want another? "The Oslo Accords: A Trojan Horse " suddenly '67 borders arent enough, palestinians want '47, what is next? Albert:</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This so called palestinian army is a group of brainwashed teenagers and a few sexually frustrated suicide-women. Their motivation is so ridiculous that you should treat them like a father his son and wash their mouth with soap. The problem is the lack of proper education<span id='postcolor'> however i would like to believe you, thats not the case. we are talking of about couple of thousends armed operatives, who're able to recruit almost everyone they want. unfortunatly they are mass educating their kids and brainwashing them towards it. it is not that there isnt a proper education, it is that they teach their children to hate israel. ive given a link in the start of this thread. Bogo: thats what ive said. its a section of the building.