Firebird-B4L

Well, we play mostly on CodeFourGaming servers for better frames (less players than HT). But codefour seems to be everincreasing their player count, but that's another story for another day. Our squad has a handful of guys, mainly Rabbit and Zylience who do a lot of the no-jets server on Codefourgaming. They are experts and they or a few other guys could be a tank gunner. I'm not the go-to-guy for that, piloting is my strength, but I've spent a lot of time as well trying to become a well-rounded player and can be of some help too. Would be nice to meet you. There's another old timer that joins us as of recently, Stug whose in his sixties, and we mostly have a lot of fun on TS and in-game. Would be nice to talk in TS and do some tanking or ballistics tests with Rabbit or whatever. We're pretty active on KOTH and sounds like you are too. You'll have to fly with Rabbit in the armed blackfish, he is truly our best, and in my opinion among the best and smartest players and pilots in the game, especially the armed blackfish--his favorite and specialty. I'll stay in touch and we'll get together soon one way or the other, i'm still waiting to get my computer back in action, if possible, after the lightning took it out during a storm.

I know this is off-topic and this thread is outdated now, but Charles Rabbit loves doing this sort of thing. Together we've tested some simple ballistics things and I enjoy doing it to. Maybe we could all get together and do some testing or whatever as time allows. I enjoy reading your threads and enjoy your humor, haha. A couple of them gave me some much needed laughs, especially the one about the wonderwoman costume, lol Also, related to the heli camera thread, Rabbit is an amazing Blackfish pilot and is able to fly really well with the new change. If they don't fix it, he could give you some pointers so you can get back in the air.

Thanks Trimmer--now that sounds awesome. Sounds like a serious fishing trip, six days. Heck in six days, I think I might even catch a fish, haha. By the time you get back, hopefully this thing will be well on the way to getting better, if not miraculosly fixed. But I don't have the slightest clue how challenging this fix is to accomplish, much less of what will be decided upon. At least there's an option to go back to the previous, better heli camera if you want to stay on top of your game in case it does come back. There have been questions on how to do this with a certain mod, but I'm still not sure how either. I'm waiting for more details on how to do this plus my gaming computer is down for the count after a lightning storm and I can't do any experimenting anyway until she's back up and running--waiting for the new power supply to arrive. It rains like twice a year here, go figure.

Haha, I don't know, IRL you wouldn't last long more than likely. But I guess that all depends on your boss and if he is high at the time or not, lol. Your example reminds me of the movie "Office Space". On the other hand, heck your boss might like the fact that your a staright-shooter with large reproductive organs and promote you on the spot to manage the whole shop. But if you value your current place of employment and want a reference in the future, don't try it, haha. In all seriousness I was shocked at the decision of Bohemia on this one to put out a DLC that would introduce a major change to the helicopter camera in order to showcase a new Jet style camera for the jet people. Hindsight is 20/20 and its easy to gripe when your not wearing the other shoes, but at the same time I feel like the underdog here and that heli pilots aren't as popular as jet pilots at Bohemia, but don't say you heard that from me, I don't want to be responsible for misrepresenting a company that I respect and don't have all the inside information on. In all honesty I was extremely frustrated and angered that it happened. But I'm over it and now I think we should all pull together, keep experimenting in the heli, put our ideas on the table, and let Bohemia take our input and produce something that works well. To continue on my previous thoughts, I think this thing could turn into something really good and mistakes don't always turn out bad in the long run. I think mistakes hurt at first but can be the impetus to make a situation better, that had there been no mistake in the first place, the potential for new and improved change never could have been given birth to. And a hello back from Laredo, Texas

The camera was not just great for extreme maneuvering in hot zone landing situations. I'd like to post a link of a video that demonstrates what was possible with the old camera in first and third person. It will demonstrate visually why the old camera worked so well. What we hummingbird entrepreneurs like to call the "Redneck Pawnee" is no less than a beautiful demonstration of what's possible when you get creative in Arma and bring new, exciting dimensions to the gameplay. The "Redneck Pawnee" has evolved as a fresh tactic on the KOTH battlefront. A ballet in the air, the Redneck Pawnee's success is dependent on four skills working together like a well oiled machine: quick and precise communication, fast, precise marksmanship, locating ground infantry quickly, and extreme piloting (which all rely on a stabilized camera platform).

Spike, that's exactly our goal as master pilots to get guys in safe. To do this we need to fly in at full speed, low, and hit the ground quick for obvious reasons in a hummingbird so I won't go into it. The new camera destroyed that and now we do end up in a burning wreckage when we try and get guys in this way because the camera is not practical for this extreme maneuvering of the helicopter.

I'm not so sure I agree with an immediate revert on this one RacerX, although I agree we need a fix and I too would like a quick solution. I like the idea of getting the old heli camera back, but if we revert back suddenly, then that will mess up the new DLC for the guys who purchased it and actually like the camera for the jets (apparently everyone loves it). That'd be a "right thing done in a wrong way", to quote a certain Colonel. What's done is done. Meetings were held, decisions were made, the DLC is out. Those of us who have the time voiced our disconcert for the rest of the discontents, Bohemia acknowledged the issue and put out the hotfix in a timely manner (thank you Oukej and BI studio team). Oukej, our DEV who stepped up to the plate, from what I can gather is continuing to try and get this fixed. He's monitoring our feedback and working with his team so that they don't rush through a decision. I'm assuming the task at hand and the current goal is to actually come up with an intelligent solution that will make sense for the game as a whole and consider the impact on all players--especially us who are taking the time to let them know what we like and don't like about both cameras, as well as our ideas on what we'd like to see as future options. I don't see this as another hotfix, I see this as an ongoing project to eventually, in steps, have camera options in place that offer pilots multiple settings to customize their camera, similar to the customization of a joystick or controller. The camera is so important, and this bad thing will take the game in a new, better direction and make it a better experience in the long run.

I don't doubt your experience at all and you're a great pilot, so am I, Misconduct is completely amazing. I guess that's not the point here. The point is that the old camera system has been in place a long time and it took a long time for a lot of the "non-flight simulator style" pilots to learn to push the helicopter to the thresholds of sanity. The way you landed the Mowhawk in your demonstration video was very, very slow compared to what was possible with the old camera, but it was a nice landing none-the-less. But that's all it is, a nice, basic slow calculated landing. With the new camera, it's back to the drawing board for the pilots who have been pushing the envelope for a long time. It should be an option, the rug shouldn't be pulled out from dedicated players feet like this.

A lighting storm burned up my power supply (I'm hoping the rest of the components on the computer are fine). Once my new power supply is delivered and i'm back on my gaming computer I'll give that a try. Thanks

Nice video Spike and nice flying and landing. Would fly with you any day of the week. Your video was in 720HP and the quality was fine for your landing demo here, but could be better if you ever get famous on You Tube, haha. Be careful, now your going to develop the editing and uploading to You Tube addiction. It's a lot of fun. One day I'm going to post a video of a master/crazy Mowhawk pilot called Token Abassi. I've saved a few shadowplays or instant replays rather of some of my latest encounters with him. I've never met his equal. If you ever see him in game hop in his heli. You may explode in a rare case, but either way it will be well worth the ride--not only for the music but for the roller coaster of an experience and a landing that will leave you with your jaw on the ground as you stare up as he flies away thinking, no way (I used to always see him on HT servers when I played there before I went to CodeFourGaming for better frames). That is, before this new Jet camera got here. Back to topic: I can still fly with this hotfix, but want the old camera back simply because it was better, not only in first, but also in third. One thing i do like about the 3rd person is that it does sit a little closer to the tail of the heli. But i think that is what is screwing up the 1st person being too zoomed in, like your nose is pressed to the windshield. Hate that so much. You need three monitors in the upright position to make it practical. Fisheye zooming out in case you missed that part. Misconduct said it extremely well and to the point in his most recent post. Give us the old camera, or give us death. --Firebird

I've been spending time in the hotfix camera flying around in a Pawnee. The hotfix camera is interesting with a Pawnee in 3rd person. From a Pawnee pilots style of flight it is worth some more time investigating (but still not liking first-person view and how it is zoomed in so much--I know you can zoom out to compensate, but that gives it a distorted fish-eye lens effect--with the old camera you didn't have to zoom out at high speeds--it zoomed out automatically as speed increased without the fish-eye lens effect). I'm not saying the hotfix can be better than the old camera at all, I'm saying I could go to third person in the Pawnee and have an interesting perspective while I fired at hopeless AI targets sitting in their vehicles. It was worth spending more time in the hotfix 3rd person to see if this camera could allow for better third person attack heli fighting. I'll be the first to admit I'm not the go-to guy for the Pawnee feedback, check to see if the master Pawnee pilots like it or not. However, for the hummingbird the hotfix camera is not the right camera for dazzling, amazing, bad-ass, hotshot, know it all and arrogant master pilot quick, low altitude landings (count me in). On the other side of the coin, in the hummingbird, for regular flight, parachuting, and slower, more calculated landings (and for the guys that just bought the game who don't know what they are missing)--you can make it work of course. I'm trying to open my mind and let this new jets hotfix camera have a chance. But I just can't see it ever giving a non-attack helicopter pilot the full potential for awesomeness that the previous camera did, as proofed many times in Misconduct's vidoes and by the dazzled reactions of his passengers that he transported safely into the explosive hotzone and to the tops of towers.

Pounding keys in the forum to help steer an amazing game in the right direction is appreciated. 150 hours in a helicopter is nice, I probably do that in half a week (which is sad now that i think about it). I'm not exaggerating. I have mastered the hummingbird, and I didn't do it in a few hundred hours. I'm approaching seven thousand hours on Arma 3 KOTH, and a majority of that time was spent doing what I love, rocking the hummingbird into the hotzone for the underdog blufor noobs on KOTH with the odds stacked against me. But who cares or gives a shit. I'm not bragging, just letting you know what time and skill that was flushed down the toilet overnight for me and a lot of other pilots who've taken the potential of the heli and have paved the way for up and coming pilots to aspire to and surpass. And its hard to say goodbye to a camera system that worked so well and hello to this jet style camera that takes me way way back to relearn a system that i cant stomache for the sesick feeling and the frustration of crashing over and over and over. But the few, the proud, the real heli pilots that make this game amazing for our passengers and dazzle You Tube audiences and make kids want to buy the game and follow in our footsteps and experience the full potential of ArmA awesomess is a sad thing for us to say goodbye to. That being said, and my sad, sad life exposed, I expect the camera to be back as either full-time or an option. If not, this is going to be hard to swallow and recover from and extremely disappointing to a lot of heli pilots. We already have to deal with explosive grass, bushes, and tree leaves, and we have overcome that. This camera though is so bad compared to the other 3rd person when doing fast, low maneuvers (which is what keeps you and your guys alive when landing in a hotzone).

Nice screenshots, but you've completely missed our gripe here. It's a problem that can't be understood by a screenshot, only by a pilot whose spent enough hours flying will understand the full magnitude of the problem. Even guys who are decent flyers are noticing too, and that's a large, large crowd of people, they just aren't on the forums, I've heard the talk in the game. Unless you've flown enough under the old system, you won't be affected too much to really make a difference. I can still put the heli on the ground and land, thats not the problem. But if I try to do it like I'm used to, the thing will crash more than not, because virtuoso pilots push the envelope--you have to to land a heli full in a hotzone on KOTH. We know how frustrating it is to wait for the pilot to land and it takes forever. Also it's frustrating when the pilot crashes and kills you. There's a real need for good pilots on Arma KOTH, the most popular Arma multiplayer game, right? The problem is the camera isn't steady and doesn't give you a clear steady view of your heli's relation to the ground, with extreme maneuevers low to the ground to slow the heli and touch down quickly and then get the hell out of there, the camera is awful, the opposite of what we need. It is the few of us that have invested so much time mastering this that are really getting the short end of the stick in the worst way. That's why we are so frustrated and that's why we're here trying to get someone to understand what's happening to our game. You don't go, and after years and years of succesful piloting, change something so drastically on the community knowing it could mess up the game for so many. You offer the option to change it as an addition to the game. When somoeone pays for a game, they want it to remain the same reliable game and have bugs fixed and the game improved. This new flight camera does the opposite for us in the helicopter. It destroys our ability to fly the way we worked so hard to fly.

The jets and the jets DLC and the camera fix for the jets in particular and the people buying and playing the game based on that is defeintly worth mentioning in passing. But really that's not what this topic is focused on. We are addressing how the game died instantly for the original and/or ace helicopter pilots who love the heli aspect of the game and rely on a consistent and reliable flight platform to continue to thrive and grow upon.

A good option was mentioned to have different camera options available to the pilot, especially to include the pre-DLC heli camera.

I'm not a dev and never have been one and can't relate to the amount of hard work, "blood, sweat, and tears" coupled with technical knowledge that must go into a day at the office trying to get a game of this awesomeness and magnitude to work right and appease such a demanding crowd as Arma gamers. On the other side of the coin a great majority of Arma--the few, the proud, the veteran and ace heli pilots who have invested a great deal of "virtual" blood, sweat, and tears, and cursewords mastering one of Arma's main and most beautiful components (the helicopter)--were wiped out overnight. I remember one update that actually made helis start exploding at the slightest touch of the ground or tree leaf. So be it. Another obstacle, frustration that just weeded out the weak and pounded the tenacious few into even better pilots. Such a drastic change to us who invest so much time to learn and fly well and stand out as the best of the best in this awesome game were dealt a really frustrating blow. That's old news here, but nonetheless, a huge shocker to the heli community when we turn on our game and can't play anymore and our squad play slowly dies out and our future vision for the game diminishes. I don't know how hard it would be to have the old heli controls back, but they were nothing short of amazing and perfect the way they were. The first and third person zoom out were brilliant. It was spot on and our squad (B4L--BluForLife) has countless hours of video and memories in-game from the use of a heli; from the "Redneck Pawnee" that we've perfected down to incredible hotzone insertions (and my latest addiction the hummingbird freestyle) which is now seems like a fading dream. I had plans to start up hummingbird/heli games--timetrials, courses, and the heli olympics. These dreams seem all but lost overnight. May sound strange, but our relationship and to the game revolved around the helicopter so much and now all that we had was instantly gone. Thanks for hearing our pleas and listening and having the hotfix out so fast. don't let me overlook that. Now, how hard is it to revert back? Thanks for a wonderful game that has given so many of us countless memories and hours of enjoyment. --Firebird [B4L]

I believe the main problem is with the zoom. The old camera would zoom out based on speed if first person, and probably in third person too. Now the camera remains zoomed in too much causing the heli to feel different as well as for the camera movements to seem more exaggerated. I could be wrong, but if the zoom is fixed I believe the other perceived problems could be only perceived by the zoom and will be resolved. I've been flying many hours. Arma piloting is my drug, my addiction, my need. Please, for the sake of Armas veteran, master pilots, take us back or at least give us the option to fly in classic mode, just as you have the option to fly the advanced model or not. Arma is such a great game, I really feel you guys would profit if you'd focus more on fixing the major problems of the game and less on changing what is already so awesome. You would PROFIT, becuase there is no other game out there that can touch Arma. Please don't fix what isn't broken anymore. We love this game and love you guys for making it.

There is definitely a difference in third person camera from the original. It still feels off to me (sea sick when in third--camera still goes up and down--horrible for trying to focus on the ground while maneuvering). It was NOT reverted back fully to the original. First person is also still not back to original; it is zoomed in too much. When i pick up speed, the camera will not slightly zoom out so that my guages in the hummingbird come into view. And when i zoom out in first person to compensate, i get the fisheye effect.