How easy is it to take out ppl in a pillbox?

[schmolywar 10]

http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=7c7_1223869622

Defensive positions anyone?

What we have now in self proclaimed realistic modern shoothers like arma and other fps (all of them actually) is pretty stale when it comes to this.

There is the standard sandbags plus heavy calibre MG position. Are these ever defensive? Have they ever been defensive? One can easily see the upright gunner from just about anywhere. He is usually the first to go down in any game environment

Having watched countless engagements against AI in cooperative multiplayer games (arma, ofp...etc), it simply seems like an exercise in gunning down static or confused AI manning an outpost somewhere;

the very visible sandbags, the poor AI manning the 12 calibre, upright soldiers who cant really hide their bodies behind anything. Maybe throw in a roaming APC. Patrolling squads nicely lined up.

Easily beaten.

Rinse and repeat a few times and you got your standard missions in these games.

Im arguing for proper defensive positions as I think this would change the dynamics of fps games.

Is if this is possible without some abstraction.

Why isnt this more widespread in wargames?

Thing is, the dynamics of playing the game would be changed just by adding realistic MG positions. Youd maybe have to add a suppression meter to the pillbox (you cant hit the gunner trough the small slit because of bullet ballistics, so youd have to bring up support weapons to suppress it - youd have to flank it - add a second pillbox to cover dead angles.... you got an interesting tactical debacle.

Only game ive seen this attempted was in the Brothers in Arms series, which was a corridor shooter, we want the open sandbox games to implement this as well.

Add the suppression meter of the Brothers in Arms games, minefields and overlapping fields of fire, you got a decent challenge on your hands.

Youd need engineers to clear the minefield, smoke to cover them, loads of fire to suppress the bunkers and maybe a whole load of anti tank missile fire on them because they are difficult to hit because of their low profile in the terrain. You cant accurately shoot trough the slits because of their small size (not unless you got near 100 percent flat bullet trajectory)

Thoughts?

[Balschoiw 0]

I usually embedd a large trigger around defensive positions to communicate players or ai´s position to defenders and enable them to engage much, much earlier.

This includes small caliber stationary weapons but also fieldguns, etc.

The players are not used to that as the AI normally doesn´t engage at ranges beyond 400 m´s but with this trick gameplay becomes much more challenging and demanding. I also use forwarded observers in trees or buildings to direct artillery on enemies. Works like a charm and has a fairness factor as the observer can be killed and the source of enemy information is gone :-)

[schmolywar 10]

Thats a good workaround.

I remember in the fdf mod they had these coastal forts that were pretty much invincible except to satchel charges.

Do you know if anyone ever considered modding these for infantry pillboxes?

In the CTI WW2 FDF mod they also had ingame placeable tank turrets. A very cool implementation. AI couldnt use them though.

I find it odd that no one saw the potential here.