Gunmen take 200+ student hostages

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]Right now there should be real efforts to find a common line, an exit for both parties. The russians and the chechens. If there is no serious approach made the terror and military killing will go on.

I’m personally was against first war in Chechnya, but I’m 100% support second war. They got what they asking for. Mashadov have no control over f_heads. There is nothing to talk about. Specially now, after school killing.

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]Bullshit.

time will tell...

tell me, how many mosques in france, and how many churches in suadi arabia.

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]Winning the war will mostly be economicly bad, building up the war torn country will cost more then there is to gain. Am I wrong?

Oil has nothink to do with it. There is already 300.000 Chechens refuges move in Russia after first war. Russia can’t afford 500.000 more. Just to make 10.000 (mostly foreigners) happy. And there is no way they can send all those peoples back.

To make it understandable for you…. Bosnia is free now; do you want to move back?

[CrackerJack 0]

wooowooowoooow!

As I see it all started with YOU, it´s in YOUR country, it´s not linked to anywhere else in the world, if you want to argue about extremests in other countries then I suggest you do it on a another thread.

[Balschoiw 0]

Quote[/b] ]tell me, how many mosques in france, and how many churches in suadi arabia.

That´s not the point. Tell me how mayn people of different believe have been killed throughout the centuries for their religion ?

If it is for that, the christians really made a big deal...

Le Pen is a racist and racism is the thing we talk about when Le Pen comes into the ring.

Racism and the chechen issue should NOT be mixed up unless you support that kind of ethnical racism, wich I hope you´re not.

[CrackerJack 0]

It´s well know fact that russians cant afford anything.

So they just mass slaughter the civilians so that they can send the rest to camps.

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]As I see it all started with YOU, it´s in YOUR country, it´s not linked to anywhere else in the world, if you want to argue about extremests in other countries then I suggest you do it on a another thread.

See, worth think can happen to you (like you just sad), if someone sends you back home. To free democratic Bosnia.  That’s what I’m talking about in my previous post.

You have the same way of thinking as Iraqis who take 2 French hostages. Basically what they sad was “we do it in the name of Allah, but if you just give as 50 bucks, it will do toâ€

[CrackerJack 0]

This isn´t a thread of CrackerJack and has nothing to do with me. Not even going to comment of what I been through and what Im going to do.

[CrackerJack 0]

Quote[/b] ]You have the same way of thinking as Iraqis who take 2 French hostages. Basically what they sad was “we do it in the name of Allah, but if you just give as 50 bucks, it will do toâ€

Well hell.. if I understood what you said I woldn´t even comment, don´t want to fall to your level of stupidity

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]This isn´t a thread of CrackerJack and has nothing to do with me. Not even going to comment of what I been through and what Im going to do.

of cource you don't, You already forget what the topic of this threat was. You just imagine yourself standing in the middle of the street in your hometown. What worth could happen? Don’t worry, I just joking.

BTW

Is there really that bad? You even afraid of think about it. Strange.

[AKM74. 0]

Quote[/b] ]Racism and the chechen issue should NOT be mixed up unless you support that kind of ethnical racism, wich I hope you´re not.

I know my English is bad, Just try to read my post again. I sad exactly what you just sad. Just in different words.

[CrackerJack 0]

lol I had enough of this thread, you win AKM74.

Chechens are bad, they all bad and deserve no attention. After the ww2 deporting them wasn´t so bad, it´s their own fault if they died and/or lost their homes.

And I imagine my self standing in a street in my hometown

After the war in Chechnya is over they will go over to Europe and start wars there just like in Starship troopers as you said. After that the racist Le Pen will come and rule the Europe and every muslim going to have an uprising in wich ever country they currently live in.

[AKM74. 0]

Good. Now you got it.  If you alone have a deep depression when I only mention you homeland, just imagine what 300.000 Chechens will feel when they will be ask leave their Moscow apartments and go back in free Chechnya.

We can’t do it with those peoples. No way.  At least Putin can’t. Girinovski will…

So if you want to speed up this process, go ahead, bless terrorists.

Quote[/b] ]After that the racist Le Pen will come and rule the Europe and every muslim going to have an uprising in wich ever country they currently live in.

Finally. That’s my man. I really respect you now. At least you tell Europeans how you will thank them for "social help checks" they keep sending you now.

BTW

Is live condition really that bad in their home country? I mean is this a really way to go? Start uprising in "infidels" country’s, to have right to continue to live with "infidels�

It sounds like paradox to me.

My little friend amiros, learn never bait hand, which give you food. You be ok then.

[ralphwiggum 6]

ok went way over head.

closing.

[Gordy 0]

Quote[/b] ]By Euan Stretch Chief Reporter

The Sunday Mirror UK

THE full horror of the Russian school atrocity began to emerge yesterday as traumatised children told horrific tales of stabbed babies and brutal rapes.

It has also emerged that scores of the 323 who died - including many children - had been shot in the back.

While despairing soldiers and rescue workers moved among the growing pile of body bags, it was revealed that an 18-month-old baby had been repeatedly stabbed by a black-clad terrorist who had run out of ammunition.

Other survivors told how screaming teenage girls were dragged into rooms adjoining the gymnasium where they were being held and raped by their Chechen captors who chillingly made a video film of their appalling exploits

They said children were forced to drink their own urine and eat the petals off the flowers they had brought their teachers after nearly three days without food or water in the stifling hot gym.

Their stories came as Russian officials warned that the final death toll of the siege of Middle School No 1 at Beslan in North Ossetia - in which up to 1,200 people were held captive - was likely to be more than 400.

The official toll yesterday stood at 323 which included 156 children, 10 Russian soldiers and two emergency service workers - 35 of the hostage-takers were also killed. Last night 434 people were being treated in hospital with 247 children and 85 adults in a critical condition.

A Russian official said six seriously injured children had been taken to Moscow for treatment.

"One of them is a child, just 18 months old, with many knife wounds," he said.

The Chechen terrorists - including two so-called "Black Widows" - had been meticulously planning the hostage-taking for months.

High explosives and ammunition had been smuggled into the building during the summer by rebels disguised as workmen.

A shocking account of the siege has come from Indira Dzetskelova, the mother of 12-year-old Dzerase who was guarded by two women suicide bombers during the siege. She said: "On the first day they shot a man before my daughter's eyes. They frightened the kids by saying that water in the tap was poisoned.

"The famished children had to eat rose petals from bouquets which they specially bought for their teachers to mark the first day of term. Parents who were also captured had to feed their kids with all the window plants.

"After they ate all the petals, my daughter said that she started to nibble the rose plants.

"She told me that several 15-year-old girls were raped by terrorists. She heard their terrible cries and screams when those monsters took them away."

Her traumatised daughter Dzerase sobbed as she added: "When the assault started, some of us were running out through the school dining room.

"We had to run across and jump over dead bodies. Can I ever forget it? Is it possible that one day I will forget it?

"The terrorists started to shoot from the roof, then one of them ran into the dining room and started to shoot from the window.

"I saw kids and women falling to the ground. And I saw that vermin's face. I saw his smile as he killed my friends."

Diana Gadzhieva, 14, was held with her sister Akinba, aged 11. She told how the rebels executed all the adult men in a room upstairs and how she was forced to lie face down on the gym floor.

She said: "There was not enough space for us and we were lying on top of each other. The rebels needed paths to walk around the gym. They shouted they would shoot anyone whose arm or leg was across their paths.

"They also said they would kill anyone who looked up.

"We saw groups of men hostages going out and never coming back."

She also told of the moments when the bloody firefight started and how the rebels triggered a series of explosions inside the gym.

Diana said: "There was terrible panic and a few boys jumped out of the windows. My sister and I did not want to run out - we were scared of being shot.

"But then the second explosion happened and something heavy fell down on us. I saw children around me lying in blood and not moving.

"Just next to me there was a woman covered in blood. She was dead. I also saw many arms and legs, torn from bodies.

"All the bombs were connected with cords and started blowing up one after another, getting closer and closer to us.

"I took Alina's hand and we ran to the window and jumped out. We were running as quickly as possible - our backs were terribly hot from the fires."

Zalina Vazagova, 13, also told of the terrifying moment when a bomb exploded in the gym ceiling.

She explained: "I heard a terrible crack above my head and closed my eyes. When I opened them, I thought I was dead. There was so much blood around me.

"One granny was lying with a hole in her head. My PE teacher, Ivan Konstantinovich's body hit my leg.

"All the kids were crying, 'Please don't shoot! Please don't kill us'. But the rebels did not listen to us.

"Then I saw an open window and just jumped out. My little sister Lena was left inside there." And sobbing, she added: "I don't know if she's alive. She was only ten."

Survivors say the gymnasium and surrounding corridors had been rigged with at least 18 bombs, connected by cables and trip wires

Two bombs were placed in the hoops of basketball nets and at either ends of the gymnasium.

A "Black Widow" is thought to have blown herself up in front of more than 1,000 hostages, prompting the deadly fire-fight and triggering a further serious of explosions inside the gymnasium.

At least three rebels were thought to have been captured alive in the school's basement - but were later said to have died.

One disguised herself as a teacher leading children to safety. She was apparently shot dead seconds before trying to blow herself up in a nearby hospital.

Another was apparently shot dead and beheaded by his comrades for trying to surrender.

[CrackerJack 0]

ah open again

!!Off topic!! Who the heck is amiros? That was sarcasam not as if you convinced me to anything.

edit/ nah never mind you don´t have to answer it

[Apollo 0]

try to not make it personal cracker ,no pun intented ,just remember that this is a discussion board and not a mud slinging board.

I will only repeat my oppinion that one of the constructive thing's that Russia can do now that may have some effect in reducing terrorism is to increase the life conditions of average chechens in and around Chechnia ,afterall it's a commonly accepted theory that people with better live conditions ,thing's like work ,hope and family are less inclined to engage in terrorism than people having none of these.

Thus russia ,invest in chechnia.

Another note i think is valuable is that Russia should try to reduce more corruption and cruelty's commited by russian soldiers in chechnia itself ,by better control institutions and harder punishemnts for offender's.

A last thing to note here is that Russia should only send trained proffesionals into Chechnia that are decently payed ,and not underfunded conscripts.

Blaming all Chechens is easy ,putting money into the region to reduce some of the terrorism is more costly ,but in the end Russia had promised it 8 years ago in a peace settlement and it never held itself to that prommise. (though Yeltsin himself and his "friends" sit on a hughe fortune ,and Putin prommised to never trial Yeltsin for his corruption to )

I am merely giving propositions that may prove constructive to some point.We know the blaming and ideological crusading against terrorism won't change a thing.

[Goodspeed 0]

Strange things goes here...

Just interesting: why did you decide to reopen this thread? To start another flame war? Don't you think that it's not quite suitable theme for that?

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ] why did you decide to reopen this thread?To start another flame war? Don't you think that it's not quite suitable theme for that?

Why would this thread be more invating to flame wars than the "war on terror" thread or the "iraq war "thread?

Flame wars are depending on the individuals participating ,not on the subject matter of the thread unless the subject matter is a troll statement on itself.

I queried Ralph abbout it previously ,and from what he said i conclude that he temporarely closed the thread to cool down the heated debate a bit.Under the surcumstances personally and with having a bit of experiences in moderating matters i think he made a very good and mild decission by temporarely closing it.

In any case ,let us let the episode that led to the temporary close in the past ,forget about it and get on with this topic in an construcive and on-topic way.

[Tovarish 0]

Apparently schools in the region opened today, many with reinforced gates, guarded by soldiers, and checked by sniffer dogs before classes began.

*edit* one principal said roughly 1/5th of her pupils came back.

[pogingwapo 0]

The mass-murderer finally admits his crime:

Chechen Warlord Basayev Claims Responsibility for Beslan School Siege

[CrackerJack 0]

The mass-murderer finally admits his crime:

Chechen Warlord Basayev Claims Responsibility for Beslan School Siege

Whats internet come to when Warlords and use websites to publish their opinion and statements.  

I remember there being 20 pro-chechen sites, after the 9/11 most of them where canceled by the server owners. Now there is only few and KAVKAZ CENTER but even that one is hard to enter.

Apollo it´s hard not to make it personal because of all the What do you know about that questions and the Oh I see your from sweden etc

[Apollo 0]

Quote[/b] ]Apollo it´s hard not to make it personal because of all the What do you know about that questions and the Oh I see your from sweden etc

I agree ,but making a return to that with sarcasm wasn't the best reaction IMO ,it's better to point out to such people why such remarks are wrong while trying to show the right example yourself.

[pogingwapo 0]

I remember there being 20 pro-chechen sites, after the 9/11 most of them where canceled by the server owners. Now there is only few and KAVKAZ CENTER but even that one is hard to enter.

Because....

[CrackerJack 0]

I remember there being 20 pro-chechen sites, after the 9/11 most of them where canceled by the server owners. Now there is only few and KAVKAZ CENTER but even that one is hard to enter.

Because....

Oh come on seriously, how many website have content of like "Kill bush" or rasism or Neo-Nazism and so on.