Bomb kills 36 on russian holiday

[Pukko 0]

I was thinking something, quite silly indeed, about Camp X-Ray --> If the US government are hoping, among other reasons to keep the prisoners there, that future terrorists will reveal themselves by demanding (a' la Die hard kind of movies) the prisoners to be released; and they thereby have hard evidence to some group, in differance to 9/11 'evidence'. But ofcourse recorded demand messages is as easy to make up as a Bin Laden video, airport photos, or other media 'evidence'. Therefore its very likely to see this kind of stuff - but until its confirmed by the terror group to several sources, its worth nothing (US intelligence has earned very low international trustwothlyness through the years..)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ May 10 2002,06:50)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">,,. probably just  token force.. just enough to grab some of the glory without any real commitment (like most other countries do)<span id='postcolor'>

Yep, like USA after WW2, right? Even if 'grab some of the gory' is quite an understatement there...

And RedStar, the struggles of Amnesty is not an easy one - and critics are probably as easy to find as against USA or any other..

[Tex -USMC- 0]

3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ May 10 2002,203)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Wow, believe it or not: Tex, this is the second time in this thread that I agree with you entirely <span id='postcolor'>

That would probably be because I only expressed one opinion in my entire post, and that one was pretty middle of the road . I was pissed off by Sept. 11, but when I calmed down, I started to think. If we use this event to pursue racist policing tactics (racial profiling), unnecessarily brutal military tactics, and to justify sacrificing freedoms for the sake of 'security', which is more psychological than physical, then we might as well just give the President a swastika armband and learn how to goose step.

If I for one second start to believe that it is okay to mistreat other human beings, just because a group that looks like them committed a murderous act, I know that I am on the wrong track.

But heres the deal: I dont think that we are treating the detainees at X-Ray badly at all. They are well fed, they are allowed to practice their religion, and they arent subjected to torture. And I think that is good enough for anyone who is taken as a POW during a war. But I still think the way we keep their heads covered and the huge amount of concertina wire and .50 caliber machine guns is somewhat excessive.

[* Spetznaz * 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ May 10 2002,00:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If you live in Chechnya - good idea to move away now <span id='postcolor'>

100% right hahaahhahahahahh and move very, very fast hahahaahahah... BECAUSE THE RUSSIANS ARE COMING (again) LOL

[Pete 1]

give the President a swastika armband and learn how to goose step.

do you think HE (bush) would be able to learn how to goose step?

btw, i agree with you 100 % about the legal/moralic part of camp xray...very well said, im totally in the same opinion as you with this, human rights and international laws are there for a reason, same with geneva conventions and other treaties....they are there to be followed by ALL, and if one dont follow them it doesnt mean ALL are allowed to ignore them.

after seeing so many pro-camp xray americans who refuse to see what is wrong with it (morally or legally) its very impressive to read your post tex.

anyways...

I dont think that we are treating the detainees at X-Ray badly at all

i disagree, as far as i know they live in cages without solid walls (wind blows in freely thru the cage...), they also get handcuffed, they get vision blocked, hearing blocked, mouth covered and so on when they get of the cage..its not the way to treat pows, its not even the way to treat criminals.

they might get good food and are allowed to pray and so on, but they have no idea how long they will be kept there...that is also a form of torture (no, all torture doesnt have to be physical, just imagine listening to hamsterdance music all day long, without knowing when (if ever) it will stop..)...i belive this is becouse US govt. still have not decided what to do with them, its in a way more of a problem for USA's reputation than it is for the non-pows/non-prisoners at camp x-ray.

[Tex -USMC- 0]

good points. Its just that I am kind of an outdoorsy guy, I love backpacking etc, and I can think of worse things than being outside during the day, and therefore didnt really think too much about it. I did mention that the restriction of their vision is rather excessive. Binding appendages when being moved is standard operating procedure... it prevents them from doing something dumb like running for it... then the guards might feel obliged to use deadly force. I did say that many of the measures taken are excessive and only serve to damage our reputation, but other measures taken are perfectly reasonable, considering that many of these individuals have already been a part of one prison riot.

[Tovarish 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ May 11 2002,01:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Binding appendages when being moved is standard operating procedure... it prevents them from doing something dumb like running for it... then the guards might feel obliged to use deadly force.<span id='postcolor'>

Running for it would be suicidal in any case, of course they (the detainees) don't know to what extent; The base is surrounded my minefields, and Cuban snipers are always watching the perimeter.

*edit* if it was up to me and one ran, I'd just sit back and let him serve as an example to the rest. The US guards wouldn't even need to lift a finger

[Tovarish 0]

So I'm at my parents watching TV and they showed updated news on this, the final death toll is 41, and they just showed a ceremony honouring those who died. The band there was playing the Soviet anthem. The dead and injured were mostly vets from Checnya and their children, who were marching with them.