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Törni

RACS M60A3

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OK. Thanks for the link. High resolution pics and at various angles. smile_o.gif

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Thanks Törni for the update !

Indeed, it works really better now. It engages at long distance with a good chance of hitting it's target. Glad to see you found the solution !

Waiting for 1.2 wink_o.gif

Malick xmas_o.gif

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M60A3 interiors are almost finished. I'm not personally convinced about their usefulness, but since you seem for some reason to like them.

Tweaked also some values and the model a bit, but nothing major.

T-55 pack is also proceeding at good speed.

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^Great! thumbs-up.gif Gonna be fun to blow up some T-55's. inlove.gifbiggrin_o.gif

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Quote[/b] ]T-55 pack is also proceeding at good speed.

I don't know what's the best news wink_o.gif

Care to share some screens ? By the way, have you improved exterior textures, with normal and specular map, for example ?

If you manage to get a T55 with the same quality as the M60, it sounds like another good addition to the game for me !

Malick

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I apologise for my ignorance if this has already been answered, but Torni, were you going to make a RACS-standard paint scheme? I saw you had high def textures on the to-do list, but wasn't sure whether this was it or not.

Great job, in any case.

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Quote[/b] ]Gonna be fun to blow up some T-55's.

They might get lucky shots back at you from time to time;)

T-55 is a vanilla version with HEAT and HE ammo.

T-55M is a modernized version with extra armor, sabot ammo, improved engine etc.

What comes to M60A3 project I have spend my time on the interiors currently. Then moving on to textures. There have been numerous problems. For example because 1.08 update has changed the default field of view and none of the BIS default driver position poses seems to fit in a M60 tank.

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Will you be modelling the external changes on the T-55M and the optional Bastion ATGM launcher?

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There is no missile launcher (at least for now), but you can easily tell them apart. Due to upgrades, reactive armor blocks etc. they look quite different.

Played some games with T-55s. A good way to take out a M60 is to disable it's main gun first and then take it down with a couple of more shots. A track disabling shot is a good way too. But you are an under dog with T-55 that's for sure.

Thin armor and underpowered gun. What else could a tanker ask for tounge2.gif

EDIT. Since I was thinking about SLA I made the T-55s as if they were maintained and upgraded over the decades with whatever parts the SLA got their hands on. So they are a mixture of Chinese and Soviet.

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... Since I was thinking about SLA I made the T-55s as if they were maintained and upgraded over the decades with whatever parts the SLA got their hands on. So they are a mixture of Chinese and Soviet.

So pretty much like ANA (Afghan National Army) whistle.gif

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Got a bit bored today. M60A3 driver position is still problematic and I'm not happy with it so I did something else and ported T-90 from OFP to ArmA.

Does anyone have a glue how effective the Å tora really is?

Was it modeled in OFP somehow?

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Got a bit bored today. M60A3 driver position is still problematic and I'm not happy with it so I did something else and ported T-90 from OFP to ArmA.

Does anyone have a glue how effective the Å tora really is?

Was it modeled in OFP somehow?

I think WGL modeled Shtora on one of the later T-80 variants as well as Arena on the BMP-3M

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Quote[/b] ]The Shtora-1 EOCMDAS (electro-optical counter-measures defensive aids suite) is one of the several unique features of Russian MBTs that distinguish them from the rest of the world. It was developed by VNII Transmash in St.Petersburg in cooperation with Elers-Elektron in Moscow, and introduced somewhere around 1988. This system effectively protects an MBT against the two most common ATGW types: wire-guided SACLOS systems (e.g. TOW, HOT) and laser-guided ATGMs (e.g. Hellfire, Copperhead).

Shtora-1 consists of a specialized computer/control panel, two electro-optical interference emitters located on each side of the gun, four laser sensors located on top of the turret, and racks of dedicated anti-laser smoke grenades.

The Shtora has two combat roles. In the first role, it works against IR guided ATGMs, by aligning the turret front to the incoming ATGM and using IR emitters to send false signals which scramble the ATGM guidance system. The principle involved is the following.

Wire-guided missiles such as the American TOW are guided to the target by means of a wire and a flare on the back of the missile. The flare is used to keep a 'reference point' of the missile in relationship to the target lock held by the operator, and the guidance computer tries to put the flare on the reference point. Shtora emitters create a large hotspot, essentially tricking the missile guidance into following the Shtora hotspot instead of the flare hotspot, resulting in faulty course corrections by the ATGW computer. In fact, the computer shall usually believe that no horisontal course correction is necessary since the false flare comes from the same direction as the targeted tank, while vertical corrections shall cause ATGM to either dive into the ground or climb into the sky, depending on whether the operator holds the lock below or above the emitters.

The second part of the system defeats laser guided weapons. When a laser beam is detected the Shtora informs the crew with light and sound; it then launches laser defeating smoke grenades, which enshroud the tank and break or degrade the lock. The tank commander can also press a button that will turn the turret front to the laser to meet incoming ATGM with the best protected section and to engage the laser beam source with the maingun.

from Fofanov armor page

Quote[/b] ]On October 20, 1999 extensive trials of T-80U and T-90 protection from various types of threats were conducted at TsNIIO 643a Testing Grounds. The tests involved firing large amounts of ordnance (including several versions of RPG ATGL, light and heavy ATGMs, and APFSDS rounds) at frontal projections of T-80U and T-90 MBTs both protected with Kontakt-V ERA and stripped of it.

T-80U and T-90 MBTs were represented by 3 vehicles each, one with Kontakt-V ERA, one with removed explosive packages and one reserve vehicle. For the ERA part of trials, knocked-out ERA packages were replaced after each shot.

One more T-80U MBT was used for special trials that focused on testing of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS.

The following weapons were used:

Infantry ATGLs (fired at a distance of 40m)

RPG-7 (using advanced 105mm grenade PG-7VR with a tandem warhead, pen. 650mm RHA)

RPG-26 (disposable launcher, pen. >500mm RHA)

RPG-29 (could not find info???) (advanced 105mm launcher, pen. 750mm RHA)

ATGMs (fired at a distance of 600m)

Malyutka-2 (NATO codename AT-3 "Sagger") (pen. >600mm RHA)

Metis (NATO codename AT-13) (pen. 460mm RHA)

Konkurs (pen. 650mm RHA) (U.S. designation?huh.gif)

Kornet (AT-14)(pen. >850mm RHA)

APFSDS (fired from T-80U MBT at a distance of 1,500m, the most likely round is 3BM42)

Each weapon was fired 5 times at each target, for a total of 20 shots per weapon. The total number of shots fired during the trials thus exceeded 150.

The trials yielded the following outcome:

ATGLs

T-90: RPG-29 produced a total of 3 penetrations.

No other RPG rounds could penetrate even the stripped target.

T-80U: RPG-29 penetrated 3 times with ERA, all 5 times without ERA.

Of all other grenades, one PG-7VR penetrated the stripped target.

ATGMs

T-90: No ATGMs could penetrate the ERA-equipped target. One Kornet ATGM penetrated the stripped target.

T-80U: 2 Kornet ATGMs penetrated the ERA-equipped target, all 5 penetrated the stripped target.

No other ATGMs could penetrate.

APFSDS

T-90: ERA-equipped target could not be penetrated. Furthermore, after firing the crew entered the vehicle, activated it and was able to execute the firing sequence.

Without ERA, one round penetrated.

T-80U (data available only for stripped target): One round almost penetrated (3mm hole in the inner lining, no visible equipment damage); two penetrated to 1/2 thickness; one missed the target completely; one hit the gun.

The following pictures show the locations of impacts by ATGL RPG-29 (in red) and ATGM Kornet (in black) against ERA-equipped vehicles. Which of these hits penetrated was not disclosed.

Shtora-1 Trials

10 Kornet ATGMs with removed warheads were fired at a tank with a crew. 4 ATGMs hit the tank, the other 6 deviated to the left of the target in the middle of the flight.

Conclusions (VF)

RPG-29 proved to be by far the most potent weapon among those used. As powerful as heavy ATGM Kornet, it appeared to assure the frontal penetration of T-80U even for the squad-level firepower. Even though T-90 fared better, it is still not immune to it. Considering sufficient proliferation of this weapon and the fact that this is still a fairly light infantry weapon, it is the most dangerous adversary of modern Russian MBTs, and is a very disturbing development.

Original reports that ATGM Kornet performance is severely degraded by ERA due to its peculiar order of internal components proved true as the ATGM with at least 100mm higher penetrating potential was not superior to a much lighter RPG-29.

Report of Shtora-1 EOCMDAS trials is confusing. Being laser-guided, ATGM Kornet should not suffer any interference from Shtora as it only affects IR SACLOS ATGMs. Furthermore, ATGMs can only deviate to the left if the marker is set to the left of both emitters, which is hardly likely. It is probable, however unlikely, that it was caused by a sloppy work of removal the warhead which e.g. could cause a gyro cofusion.

rom an unknown source quoted on this Forum

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But Sthora doesn't detect actual missile coming against it, only thing it spots is laserbeam with right frequency and most missiles such as TOW don't use laser which Sthore could notice! Missilecrew might use laser rangefinder to get distance to MBT (idiots if they do that!wink_o.gif, as using laser rangefinder at that point (or aim it to MBT itself) is very stupid!

So basically, in my opinion Sthora, should be left quite infunctionable against ATGMs which doesn't use laser activelly, as most doesn't atleast in form that Sthora would notice, maybe Hellfire uses laser which is "visible" to Sthora's laserdetector... i don't know. Tankcrew has to see that kind "invisible" missile itself to be able to activate and operate Sthora (not very likely, atleast so that turret manages to turn). And most modern ATGMs are modernized so that they use coded IR-impulses so that Sthora can't distract them very easily if at all.

Sthora then again comes with powerful smokescreens (or are they fogscreens, not sure which is right term) that blocks IR- and visiblelight, so if missile goes to that smoke it looses its track to guiding unit (IR-beam gets blocked and doesn't meet with launcher) and becomes unguided missile, which most likely crashes ground. Fog is generated quite rapidly after it's lauch, 2 seconds if there not much wind... In wind fog i said to scatter quite lot. Ability to block laser beams with that fog is not very certain, this is atleast what i've read from militarytech magazines.

Sthora activates itself from allkinds of lasers with right frequency (it has three activationsettings: Automatic, semi-.automatic and manual). It's also designed to be used against enemy MBTS, altough it's reaction time might be too slow in most cases. MBT uses laser rangefinder and shoots in second or two after that.

Arena is another case, but not much reliable info is given about it (how reliable is it for real?). Test firing have proven that it's good piece of equipment, but now about warsituation? It's said that it increases MBT's combatsurvuval rate by 1.5, by russian sources.

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But Sthora doesn't detect actual missile coming against it, only thing it spots is laserbeam with right frequency and most missiles such as TOW don't use laser which Sthore could notice! Missilecrew might use laser rangefinder to get distance to MBT (idiots if they do that!wink_o.gif, as using laser rangefinder at that point (or aim it to MBT itself) is very stupid!

So basically, in my opinion Sthora, should be left quite infunctionable against ATGMs which doesn't use laser activelly, as most doesn't atleast in form that Sthora would notice, maybe Hellfire uses laser which is "visible" to Sthora's laserdetector... i don't know. Tankcrew has to see that kind "invisible" missile itself to be able to activate and operate Sthora (not very likely, atleast so that turret manages to turn). And most modern ATGMs are modernized so that they use coded IR-impulses so that Sthora can't distract them very easily if at all.

Sthora then again comes with powerful smokescreens (or are they fogscreens, not sure which is right term) that blocks IR- and visiblelight, so if missile goes to that smoke it looses its track to guiding unit (IR-beam gets blocked and doesn't meet with launcher) and becomes unguided missile, which most likely crashes ground. Fog is generated quite rapidly after it's lauch, 2 seconds if there not much wind... In wind fog i said to scatter quite lot. Ability to block laser beams with that fog is not very certain, this is atleast what i've read from militarytech magazines.

Sthora activates itself from allkinds of lasers with right frequency (it has three activationsettings: Automatic, semi-.automatic and manual). It's also designed to be used against enemy MBTS, altough it's reaction time might be too slow in most cases. MBT uses laser rangefinder and shoots in second or two after that.

Arena is another case, but not much reliable info is given about it (how reliable is it for real?). Test firing have proven that it's good piece of equipment, but now about warsituation? It's said that it increases MBT's combatsurvuval rate by 1.5, by russian sources.

Shtora does stop wire guided missiles, the article above explained it I think.

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OK. Interiors for T-90 are now setup too. Couple of things still resist completion (as always), but I'll  look into them.

Interesting how different the opinions about the Russian tank defense systems are. So far I have seen some vids with white smoke puffing around.

The question is how different Western and Eastern ATGMs are? If the defence system works against Russian weapons does it 1:1 mean that it will also work against their Western counterparts?

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Quote[/b] ]Piccehs?

I'll put some online tonight. A lot of odd stuff with this conversion though. Selections, vertices and faces that just won't obey O2 at all, textures that do not behave the way they should etc.  crazy_o.gif

This was a total add-hoc on-the-spot thing. Did not re-model or re-texture anything (unless it was absolutely needed). Nor have I asked yet anything from anybody.

There was a high-detail T-90 on the works somewhere. I'll bet gamers want to use that once it comes out.

EDIT: Found it. Infact the detail level is about the same as in those Hungarian screenies.

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Shtora does stop wire guided missiles, the article above explained it I think.

Sorry but my info is more perfect. That article you are referring to doesn't mention Sthora's weak points, which are those that i listed.

It works with old middle of 80's missiles, but mordenized missiles are tougher... and also only way Sthora can used against those missiles is that MBT crew does have visual contact on missile's lauch. Sthora itself cant detect the missile which doesn't use (right type) laser!

So, to keep it simple:

Laser detector and crews eyes are only things that spot incoming missile and if missile doesn't need laser to hit it's target... Well, you can do the math. TOW, HOT, MILAN etc are in this group. And all of them are modernized so that IR-emitters don't have effect or atleast much.

But:

Laser detector and crews eyes are only things that spot incoming missile and if missile does use laser to hit it's target... Well, you can do the math again, but keep in mind that missile's laser can use different frequency than Sthora can notice.

Also, they are not my ideas: 100% of my previous post bases on militarytech experts' analysis in public sources from late 90's and seems that anything hasn't changed in Sthora from that point of time or they are kept as military secret... i'm squadleader for ATGM-squad so i would be happy to know those secrets wink_o.gif

All-in-all: i'm not conserned about Sthora... Arena is another (much worse) case from my point of view, it can't be fooled with ways that i know of.

@Törni:

I don't know most easter missiles, but some MBT's missiles uses lasertunnel in which missile flies (that way it stays in it's flight path.)... I'm not sure is that spottable by Sthora... I would guess that yes. Older missiles (like the ones in BMP-2 and BRDM in SLA inventory) are wirequided and don't need laser to hit the target. But about more modern eastern missiles i can't say, i haven't much studied them.

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OK. Interiors for T-90 are now setup too. Couple of things still resist completion (as always), but I'll look into them.

Interesting how different the opinions about the Russian tank defense systems are. So far I have seen some vids with white smoke puffing around.

The question is how different Western and Eastern ATGMs are? If the defence system works against Russian weapons does it 1:1 mean that it will also work against their Western counterparts?

It if works against Russian stuff it would most likely work against Western equipment from the same era.

Also an interesting thing we unfortunately cant model at the moment is that Shtora also jams the enemies laser range finders.

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Shtora would also be completely ineffective against IIR guided missiles, such as the Maverick; against video guided missiles, such as the Javelin and Predator; and against radar guided missiles, such as the Hellfire II.

Frankly, I'd be frightened to death to have to face any of those missiles in a Russian tank. crazy_o.gif

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