please some hand to hand combat or knifes

Please add some very basic hand to hand combat to this game. It doesnt have to be any chuck norris nonsense but some very basic moves would be cool. I mean there are almost no combat units today that are not trained it some kind of martial arts. esspecially the usmc force recon are experts in hand to hand combat and i have yet to see this is any game. If this is not doable then please at least add a knife to the weapons. I just still miss this in to many wargames.

Well.... ygh, let's also make knives throwable up to 500 meters.

The problem with these games and irl is, they are open-ended. Firefighting happening in 500-1km distance.

Knifes and hand-to-hand combat in wargames are for kids

So i guess thats why army,s around the world are trained in hand to hand combat? I mean you can always run out of ammo and knife is usefull for stealth kills in brothers in arms you could hit someone with your rifle close range. Like i said i should be very basic. Some punching or hitting with your rifle.

yes most combat will be long range but therse is allways a chance you get into a close combat situation

So i guess thats why army,s around the world are trained in hand to hand combat? I mean you can always run out of ammo and knife is usefull for stealth kills in brothers in arms you could hit someone with your rifle close range. Like i said i should be very basic. Some punching or hitting with your rifle.

yes most combat will be long range but therse is allways a chance you get into a close combat situation

They could implement it, but the chances of very close engagements we are talking about are very slim.

Also, you don't want more keyboard clutter.

The only solution I can think of is automatic melee, executed via the regular fire button/key, which activates as soon as the enemy is too near for gunfire.

And that would unnecessarily take development which can be used to optimize the game.

OFP/Arma arent (very) close combat shooters. Its not only adding a knife - animations must be smooth and proper working, AI should use hand-to-hand combat too.

On the other hand trained soldiers know when they run out of ammo and arent surprised if that happen. Only for few stealth missions? Imho it would be better if BIS are improving on stealth topic: SD weapons, AI awareness + (re)actions, group behavior.

btw creating two threads doesnt help to get what you miss.  

No matter what mod I'm currently playing (ACE), I always leave SLX's Melee.pbo in the addons folder just to ensure H/H is possible. Just yesterday my AI sniper dispatched of a wounded enemy with a knife, which made sense as it was so quiet no enemies were alerted and up until then the enemy was still giving our coordinates away to his mates.

The best I have managed so far is three enemies killed in close combat in urban area with the slx mod. So close combat is rare, but very possible in ArmA when there is plenty of cover available. It should be a last resort option.

Yes I agree. I'm just worried Solus may never be back and I would really miss that feature although I understand it can't be top priority for BIS. If Arma2 missions are generally based on a 5 member team who use suppressive fire I can imagine situations where at least a rifle butt attack would be necessary at least until they can scramble back for ammo/evac etc...

I'm not confident that this kind issue is enough important and vital for man-hours spent.

Issuing seperate key isn't good idea as it's used so rarely that it's pretty much useless. Result is that players don't even remember it's there and it's probably too far away to to reached at same speed as AI can react.

Way SLX did it wasn't good either. Weapon selection menu became mess. I threw melee weapons away always.

Best way is automated process where IF enemy is less than meter away then character does melee-movez himself automatically... Or player presses firing button which enable triggers melee-movez under same conditions. I favor first option as with 2nd option it's hard to tell when my character shoots and when shoves rifle's barrel into face of enemy and besides melee happens by different rules than firing rifle. I like that this process would be automated highly and let several factors determe outcome.

-experience level, and maybe class (SF will focus more into this than regular line troops)

-realtive angle (who faces where)

-suppression

-weapon at hand (rifle, handgun, frag, LMG)

-what he is doing (running at, standing, lying, kneeling, changing magazine etc)

On other point of view it can become more imprtant feature IF ArmA2 is taking more approach also for low intensity conflicts and peacekeeping operations, procedures and conditions, melee-movez can become very vital as you won't be killing everyone who you don't like. Bring him down, lock and tie forexample if someone does something he shouldn't.

I had this one time in ArmA where I was in a house and I eventually ran out of ammo, and I notice there was a soldier out front the house, and there was nothing I could do, cept run outside and commit suicide...

I know it would be very rare that you would use a knife, but if it's so rare then whats the problem? It's just something good to have in such a moment, rather then walk up to them and say shoot me .

I had this one time in ArmA where I was in a house and I eventually ran out of ammo, and I notice there was a soldier out front the house, and there was nothing I could do, cept run outside and commit suicide...

I know it would be very rare that you would use a knife, but if it's so rare then whats the problem? It's just something good to have in such a moment, rather then walk up to them and say shoot me .

shhh, i might be able to script a knife simulator. It won't be pretty though...

Well.... ygh, let's also make knives throwable up to 500 meters.

The problem  with these games and irl is, they are open-ended. Firefighting happening in 500-1km distance.

Knifes and hand-to-hand combat in wargames are for kids  

Exactly man. I mean I have no idea why they even allow you to shoot closer than 500 meters or why they included towns in the islands because that promotes unnecessary and unrealistic close combat. Only kids fight closer than 500 meters.

OFP/Arma arent (very) close combat shooters. Its not only adding a knife - animations must be smooth and proper working, AI should use hand-to-hand combat too.

I'm pretty convinced that knife fights aren't smooth looking or very good looking.  I know what you mean, though.  But I think that they may as well not even bother since it's not in the scope of what they are going for.  Plus it would be impossible to capture the brutal, traumatic death that being stabbed repeatedly and left for dead creates.  I have not seen anything worth looking at in terms of knife fights in video games yet. I wonder what TOP is going for in terms of knife fighting? Killing after running out of ammo or what?

I see it as modding potential. Anims for knife stabs/swings etc. would be absolutely fab for those 19th-century/18th-century mods where cannonballs and cavalry with sabres kick ass. Hell, if they could add a "block" move of some kind, we'd have a whole SUBSET of mods that could appear out of it!

As a point of comparison: Mount & Blade (medieval mounted combat) has a hidden skill for Guns, and animations for rifles and pistols. In the basic game, you won't find either of these (except the pistol as an easter egg, I think). As a result, however, the clever modders have been able to create everything from Wild West cowboys to Bismarck-era German troopers to WWI-II to Star Wars Calradia mods. Nope: it's nothing close to the possibilities gun combat has in ArmA (mainly due to AI issues and such, I'd say), but it's there!

Even the animations alone, made in their expensive studio, would be enough - hell, if they can put in several minute long sequences of people DANCING, is it so impossibly man-hour eating to produce a handful of knife-stabbing/slashing anims? If they'd actually code in close combat as well, well, then Bob's your uncle and ArmA II is going to be around for a long, long, long time.

I don't really care if it's available in the stock game/campaign or not, though.

Regards,

Wolfrug

Hand to hand in arma2 doesn't appeal to me. knife fighting either. The saying bring a gun to a knife fight comes to mind. guns wins - always.

however, having a knife that you can use to silently slay guards in spec ops missions would be nice. a silenced pistol would do the trick just as well.

i do agree with what wolfrug says about the modability aspect though. that would be smart looking towards the future.

No matter what mod I'm currently playing (ACE), I always leave SLX's Melee.pbo in the addons folder just to ensure H/H is possible. Just yesterday my AI sniper dispatched of a wounded enemy with a knife, which made sense as it was so quiet no enemies were alerted and up until then the enemy was still giving our coordinates away to his mates.

hmm...hollywood much? Knife kill is pretty much NEVER silent. It's more likely to alarm everybody.

The victim will choke, scream from pain, release a lot of blood. it's a mess, and it's more effecient to just a hit a bullet in the head.

Just like the spetsnaz did during the estrade rescue situation in russia back in the years. It was close-combat, but they never used a knife, just bullet to the head with a silencer.

Exactly man. I mean I have no idea why they even allow you to shoot closer than 500 meters or why they included towns in the islands because that promotes unnecessary and unrealistic close combat. Only kids fight closer than 500 meters.

Your kidding me right, do you have any idea how far 500 meters actually is? A lot of fire fights in IRAQ are within 200 meters, let alone 500+ meters which heavy MG's and Sniper rifles would be used in such situations.

I'm all for a simple melee system : knife, punch o baseball bate when out of ammo OR IF YOUR ARE A CIVILIAN (OR AGAINST CIVILIANS).

Nothing too fancy, but that could do it in some situations/missions.

It's all the more interesting that you can now simulate unconciousness now, its not only alive or dead anymore. So, it makes sense for some missions to just knock someone out.

It's a game after all, and even if it's not THAT realistic, it would certainly be more realistic than do nothing at all and wait for them to get you.

Exactly man. I mean I have no idea why they even allow you to shoot closer than 500 meters or why they included towns in the islands because that promotes unnecessary and unrealistic close combat. Only kids fight closer than 500 meters.

Your kidding me right, do you have any idea how far 500 meters actually is? A lot of fire fights in IRAQ are within 200 meters, let alone 500+ meters which heavy MG's and Sniper rifles would be used in such situations.

Lack of understanding sarcasm? That exactly was Celery's point

Wolfrug: Compared to games designed for melee (like Mount&Blade) ArmA has long way to go. I believe animation system doesn't suit for it even closely. Sure it's possible, but how many will try to mod it and play it? As it probably will feel bad anyways. I more cladly play Mount&Blade modded to musket-era than ArmA (or OFP).

WW1-WW2 seems to be more in the middle, soldiers did use same kind methods as used today while trying to defend, attack etc. (WW1 wasn't just charging across open field at enemy) so ArmA basically suits for that very well. But still there are some degree of records about use of bayonets, knifes, shovels, pure strenght when fights went into clearing trenches or prisoner capture attempts. Many times when playing some OFP's ww2 mod i was left into situation where melee could have brought better results than starting to reload magazine of my bolt locked rifle, forexample in trench clearings... Then again i usually switched my rifle to SMG or LMG from my fallen comrade

As reality point: Melee in reality usually ends up in wrestling in ground. Human is hard to take out with stabbing, hitting and slashing and he probably will keep on fighting. Most melee fights ends into gun shot, usually by buddy of another wrestler or then another wrestler has managed to get functioning rifle at his hand and space to use it (or manages to flee). Well... Wrestling is HARD to implement so i guess that was pointless info

hmm...hollywood much? Knife kill is pretty much NEVER silent. It's more likely to alarm everybody.

The victim will choke, scream from pain, release a lot of blood. it's a mess, and it's more effecient to just a hit a bullet in the head.

I never said it was perfect.And yes, we're probably never going to get the 'muzzle the guys mouth while I slit his throat' animation. My point was a melee attack to silence the enemy made more sense then to fire a live round as my sniper had no silenced weapon for that designed mission. Not all missions have unlimited ammo or silenced weapons in place you know.

Well.... ygh, let's also make knives throwable up to 500 meters.

The problem  with these games and irl is, they are open-ended. Firefighting happening in 500-1km distance.

Knifes and hand-to-hand combat in wargames are for kids  

Nahh....they should add a hand combat with full range of attacks... It wil work like this.... you aproach the enemy close enough then game freezes for a moment and ROUND 1 advise is displayed in the screen just so you have the time to pick the keypad....each character could have some "magic punches" .... if you spree some magic punches it should triggger the sound "BRUTALIYYYYYY".....

Of course each player with its lifebar.

Now seriously...for close combat we only need to drop the gun to the ground and pick the pistol as fast as possible... 1 single "emergency" key to trigger the action and the action not taking no more than 2 seconds.

Now seriously...for close combat we only need to drop the gun to the ground and pick the pistol as fast as possible... 1 single "emergency" key to trigger the action and the action not taking no more than 2 seconds.

And when there is no pistol? That's exactly why we are talking about the possibility of including physical attacks.

"What if your enemy is three inches in front of you, what do you do then? Curl into a ball? Or do you put your fist through him?"

-Pai Mei

I'd rather have the military shovel than a knife as a meele weapon, to knock him unconcious without killing him (avoiding the high group knowsAbout value) so that I can escape. But more importantly, be able to actually *use* this shovel to 'dig in' and create covers with. To this day I have not been close enough to enemy making a meele attack useable without getting shot in the process.

Now seriously...for close combat we only need to drop the gun to the ground and pick the pistol as fast as possible... 1 single "emergency" key to trigger the action and the action not taking no more than 2 seconds.

And when there is no pistol? That's exactly why we are talking about the possibility of including physical attacks.

"What if your enemy is three inches in front of you, what do you do then? Curl into a ball? Or do you put your fist through him?"

-Pai Mei

On my some thousands hours of playing arma I have never come so close to an enemy without a single round...although it might be interesting to have the possibility to use the close combat attacks that were in older versions of Day of Defeat (bayonette attack and breech hit) I havent see any modern soldier in close combat using the bayonette in modern warfare.

Sneaking behind a guard with the knife, kill him and drag the body "comandoes like" is more for the movies...

2 characters carring body armor, helmet and all those ammo clips attacked makes very unlikely that any of them can kill the other using a knife....indeed...it should be allready difficult to do with pistols it you dont hit the other in the head (unlikely of what we experience in arma1). So i´d rather prefer them to model the body armor better in arma 2.

Its not so much bringing a gun to a knife fight. Its should be used as a last resort. I mean i have had situations in arma where i just was left with nothing exept an empty gun when hiding out in a house and suddenly the AI managed to sneak in fully armed. Would be nice to actually use my empty m4 even though i was out of ammo. And still i think a knife would come in handy from time to time or some basic hand to hand combat when it gets really face to face. I train wing chun and its a style trained to many armed forces around the world. And there is a reason marines train in hand to hand combat. And since i consider this a simulaton based on the marine force recon there at least should be something that represents this in the game.

" A warrior remains a warrior ,  armed or unarmed "

-genghis khan