MD500Enthusiast 10 Posted November 9, 2011 you can change it yourself ;):1.backup the original file first!! 2.unpack the air_us_h.pbo file located in the folder addons with Extractpbo (put dpbo.dll in the same folder) 3.in the extracted folder go to air_us_h > h_sim > air_us_h the last sub-folder is the folder you need repack to create the new air_us_h.pbo file (i do it with cpbo) 4.in this folder you have the 3 more sub folders medium, heavy and light into each folder you have a .xml file ej: Light-GenHeli600-DesktopSim.xml this is the config file to the light i edit this file with the notepad 5.repack and test (repack the sulfolder air_us_h> h_sim > air_us_h instead the entire extracted folder) note: locate the tools folder in the desktop and run as administrator (win 7 and vista) personally i've found the default ( ib= 1200 ) too low in the medium, with 1800 ~ 2200 improve the control authority and almost cancel the roll tendency with collective input due to the tail rotor high position, set the yaw control damper to 0 ~ 0.5 to get yaw torque effect that sounds interesting, can you play on multiplayer without the game noticing you've made changes to the game files? if so can you upload it so we can test it? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EagleEye-GER- 0 Posted November 9, 2011 Patch 1 has nothing to do with the flight modeling. I think that is scheduled for patch 2 depending on the difficulty involved. I know that Patch1 has no FM changes. I thought you would hold for the review regardless... So will you review current version or waiting for Patch2? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 9, 2011 you can change it yourself ;):1.backup the original file first!! 2.unpack the air_us_h.pbo file located in the folder addons with Extractpbo (put dpbo.dll in the same folder) 3.in the extracted folder go to air_us_h > h_sim > air_us_h the last sub-folder is the folder you need repack to create the new air_us_h.pbo file (i do it with cpbo) 4.in this folder you have the 3 more sub folders medium, heavy and light into each folder you have a .xml file ej: Light-GenHeli600-DesktopSim.xml this is the config file to the light i edit this file with the notepad 5.repack and test (repack the sulfolder air_us_h> h_sim > air_us_h instead the entire extracted folder) note: locate the tools folder in the desktop and run as administrator (win 7 and vista) personally i've found the default ( ib= 1200 ) too low in the medium, with 1800 ~ 2200 improve the control authority and almost cancel the roll tendency with collective input due to the tail rotor high position, set the yaw control damper to 0 ~ 0.5 to get yaw torque effect I have been relatively successful at modding flight dynamics in FSX. I will give this a shot. If I can make the models feel right, I will post them on the net somewhere for other users. The thing I don't understand is... If it's that easy to fix, why has this not been done already? Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
b101_uk 10 Posted November 9, 2011 i could never get the CP to work with moded Light-GenHeli600-DesktopSim.xml or repacked .pbo etc etc. But that may just have been the CP, i am still downloading tkoh as just got broadband back today :). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
.kju 3245 Posted November 9, 2011 Your turn now .. FM test / tweak addon Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 9, 2011 Your turn now .. FM test / tweak addon Thanks for the link! I will check it out tonight. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
MD500Enthusiast 10 Posted November 9, 2011 hmmm i'm looking at the xml and i have no experience programming stuff. what is the relationship between the numbers that are next to each other? <GroundEffect startDistance="1.6" strength="0.0"/> <LiftCurve> -1000 0 -180 0 -150 0.61 -140 0.69 -130 0.69 -120 0.61 -110 0.46 -100 0.24 -90 0 Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 10, 2011 hmmm i'm looking at the xml and i have no experience programming stuff. what is the relationship between the numbers that are next to each other? <GroundEffect startDistance="1.6" strength="0.0"/> <LiftCurve> -1000 0 -180 0 -150 0.61 -140 0.69 -130 0.69 -120 0.61 -110 0.46 -100 0.24 -90 0 With this stuff, sometimes the only way to find out is to change some things, then test it to see what changed. I have spent many many hours making .cfg edits in FSX helicopters, then testing it, then making more changes, etc. It can be very time consuming and tedious. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
heli_flying 10 Posted November 10, 2011 that is the lift coefficient vs angle of attack and the lower list is drag vs angle of attack , nightsta1ker you are right when you say this is a tedious work :o my light.xml file in the spoiler (work in progress): <!-- REFERENCES [1] Technical Description.pdf [2] Wikipedia [3] Field manual [4] Technical manual [5] Blueprints --> <?xml version="1.0"?> <GenHeli600 version="1.0"> <!-- Estimation Calculated after the ration R_mass = (empty weight of dauphin) / (empty weight of MD500) ratio = (2271)/(722) = 3.1454293629. Ixx = 11000/R_Mass = 3497 Iyy = 2704/R_Mass = 859 Ixx = 9900/R_Mass = 3147 --> <MomentsOfInertia Ixx="3497" Iyy="859" Izz="3147"/> <!--[2] Empty Weight=722 kg Max Takeoff Weight=1610 kg Any value between empty weight and max takeoff weight is valid. --> <Mass mass="722"/> <Fuselage rotationalResistance="100" > <MainRotorDownwash scale="0.5"> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> 0 1.4958 10.0000 1.4955 20.0000 1.4939 30.0000 1.4881 40.0000 1.4694 50.0000 1.4149 60.0000 1.2801 70.0000 1.0072 80.0000 0.5652 90.0000 0.0000 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0" scale="0.5"> 0 1.4958 10.0000 1.4955 20.0000 1.4939 30.0000 1.4881 40.0000 1.4694 50.0000 1.4149 60.0000 1.2801 70.0000 1.0072 80.0000 0.5652 90.0000 0.0000 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6" scale="0.5"> 0 1.4958 10.0000 1.4955 20.0000 1.4939 30.0000 1.4881 40.0000 1.4694 50.0000 1.4149 60.0000 1.2801 70.0000 1.0072 80.0000 0.5652 90.0000 0.0000 </High_a1> </MainRotorDownwash> <MainRotorInplanewash scale="0.5"> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> 0 0.1124 10.0000 0.1125 20.0000 0.1127 30.0000 0.1138 40.0000 0.1176 50.0000 0.1333 60.0000 0.2000 70.0000 0.4472 80.0000 1.0415 90.0000 1.5000 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0" scale="0.5"> 0 0.1124 10.0000 0.1125 20.0000 0.1127 30.0000 0.1138 40.0000 0.1176 50.0000 0.1333 60.0000 0.2000 70.0000 0.4472 80.0000 1.0415 90.0000 1.5000 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6" scale="0.5"> 0 0.1124 10.0000 0.1125 20.0000 0.1127 30.0000 0.1138 40.0000 0.1176 50.0000 0.1333 60.0000 0.2000 70.0000 0.4472 80.0000 1.0415 90.0000 1.5000 </High_a1> </MainRotorInplanewash> <LiftDueToAoA scale="0.1"> -180.0000 -0.0001 -170.0000 0.4658 -160.0000 0.9087 -150.0000 2.7566 -140.0000 4.1489 -130.0000 4.9260 -120.0000 4.9619 -110.0000 3.3846 -100.0000 1.7154 -90.0000 -0.0005 -80.0000 -1.7144 -70.0000 -3.3820 -60.0000 -4.9578 -50.0000 -4.9208 -40.0000 -4.1432 -30.0000 -2.7511 -20.0000 -0.5829 -18.0000 -0.5107 -16.0000 -0.4336 -14.0000 -0.3544 -12.0000 -0.2757 -10.0000 -0.1996 -8.0000 -0.1278 -6.0000 -0.0620 -4.0000 -0.0034 -2.0000 0.0474 0 0.0898 2.0000 0.1237 4.0000 0.1492 6.0000 0.1671 8.0000 0.1781 10.0000 0.1835 12.0000 0.1848 14.0000 0.1839 16.0000 0.1829 18.0000 0.1843 20.0000 0.1907 30.0000 -0.0001 40.0000 0.4658 50.0000 0.9087 60.0000 2.7566 70.0000 4.1489 80.0000 4.9260 90.0000 4.9619 100.0000 3.3846 110.0000 1.7154 120.0000 -0.0005 130.0000 -1.7144 140.0000 -3.3820 150.0000 -4.9578 160.0000 -4.9208 170.0000 -4.1432 180.0000 -2.7511 </LiftDueToAoA> <SideForceDueToSideslip scale="0.1"> -180.0000 0 -171.4977 0.3326 -154.4931 0.8516 -130.4378 1.4803 -100.5760 1.9598 -79.4240 2.0621 -63.6636 2.0724 -48.7327 2.0314 -30.4839 1.7361 -20.0000 1.3702 -18.0000 1.2471 -16.0000 1.1193 -14.0000 0.9873 -12.0000 0.8515 -10.0000 0.7125 -8.0000 0.5708 -6.0000 0.4269 -4.0000 0.2815 -2.0000 0.1349 0 -0.0121 2.0000 -0.1592 4.0000 -0.3057 6.0000 -0.4511 8.0000 -0.5949 10.0000 -0.7365 12.0000 -0.8755 14.0000 -1.0111 16.0000 -1.1431 18.0000 -1.2708 20.0000 -1.3937 30.4839 -1.7361 48.7327 -2.0314 63.6636 -2.0724 79.4240 -2.0621 100.5760 -1.9598 130.4378 -1.4803 154.4931 -0.8516 171.4977 -0.3326 180.0000 0 </SideForceDueToSideslip> <DragDueToAoA scale="0.1"> -180.0000 0.8000 -170.0000 0.8133 -160.0000 1.0119 -150.0000 2.2253 -140.0000 4.0787 -130.0000 6.4404 -120.0000 9.1441 -110.0000 9.8355 -100.0000 10.2580 -90.0000 10.4000 -80.0000 10.2581 -70.0000 9.8365 -60.0000 9.1465 -50.0000 6.4448 -40.0000 4.0856 -30.0000 2.2349 -20.0000 1.3727 -18.0000 1.2424 -16.0000 1.1396 -14.0000 1.0621 -12.0000 1.0077 -10.0000 0.9740 -8.0000 0.9582 -6.0000 0.9578 -4.0000 0.9700 -2.0000 0.9918 0 1.0203 2.0000 1.0528 4.0000 1.0862 6.0000 1.1179 8.0000 1.1450 10.0000 1.1650 12.0000 1.1754 14.0000 1.1739 16.0000 1.1583 18.0000 1.1268 20.0000 1.0776 30.0000 0.8000 40.0000 0.8133 50.0000 1.0119 60.0000 2.2253 70.0000 4.0787 80.0000 6.4404 90.0000 9.1441 100.0000 9.8355 110.0000 10.2580 120.0000 10.4000 130.0000 10.2581 140.0000 9.8365 150.0000 9.1465 160.0000 6.4448 170.0000 4.0856 180.0000 2.2349 </DragDueToAoA> <PitchingMomentDueToAoA scale="0.1" > -180.0000 -7.9390 -170.7661 -7.7714 -162.7016 -6.7996 -158.2661 -5.7272 -138.5081 6.8733 -130.4435 10.3251 -126.0081 11.0958 -118.7500 11.5315 -109.4758 11.7661 -99.7984 11.5315 -94.5565 10.8613 -65.5242 -6.6655 -60.0000 -7.7275 -51.8145 -8.2071 -39.7177 -8.3412 -30.8468 -8.1401 -20.0000 -7.7275 -18.0000 -7.3963 -16.0000 -7.0066 -14.0000 -6.5610 -12.0000 -6.0621 -10.0000 -5.5124 -8.0000 -4.9147 -6.0000 -4.2714 -4.0000 -3.5852 -2.0000 -2.8587 0 -2.0944 2.0000 -1.2951 4.0000 -0.4632 6.0000 0.3986 8.0000 1.2877 10.0000 2.2016 12.0000 3.1376 14.0000 4.0931 16.0000 5.0655 18.0000 6.0522 20.0000 7.0507 23.9919 8.5824 31.2500 9.8559 42.9435 11.0958 56.2500 11.4645 70.7661 11.6320 85.2823 11.5650 102.6210 11.0288 116.7339 9.8224 126.8145 7.9792 141.3306 4.4269 150.6048 1.3773 157.8629 -1.3036 163.1048 -3.6830 168.7500 -6.5650 172.3790 -7.6709 180.0000 -7.9390 </PitchingMomentDueToAoA> <YawingMomentDueToSideslip scale="0.1" > -180.0000 0 -170.0000 -4.0856 -159.9496 -6.8499 -145.2520 -9.5845 -133.8206 -9.8794 -123.1149 -9.6113 -111.8649 -7.9491 -100.2520 -4.8291 -88.9631 -1.1184 -78.5945 2.1930 -66.5668 5.0658 -53.8004 7.5302 -45.0907 8.9779 -38.7788 9.1447 -32.1429 8.7500 -25.5069 7.5029 -20.0000 6.1514 -18.0000 5.5362 -16.0000 4.9211 -14.0000 4.3060 -12.0000 3.6908 -10.0000 3.0757 -8.0000 2.4606 -6.0000 1.8454 -4.0000 1.2303 -2.0000 0.6151 0 0 2.0000 -0.6151 4.0000 -1.2303 6.0000 -1.8454 8.0000 -2.4606 10.0000 -3.0757 12.0000 -3.6908 14.0000 -4.3060 16.0000 -4.9211 18.0000 -5.5362 20.0000 -6.1514 25.5069 -7.5029 32.1429 -8.7500 38.7788 -9.1447 45.0907 -8.9779 53.8004 -7.5302 66.5668 -5.0658 78.5945 -2.1930 88.9631 1.1184 100.2520 4.8291 111.8649 7.9491 123.1149 9.6113 133.8206 9.8794 145.2520 9.5845 159.9496 6.8499 170.0000 4.0856 180.0000 0 </YawingMomentDueToSideslip> </Fuselage> <Engines> <Engine type="ConstantRPMEngine"> <DebugInfo printDebugInfo="false" /> <General inertia="6" /> <Performance maxPower="375" maxTorque="1000" rotationResistance="0.000000009"/> <ControllerParams P="0.5" I="1.5" D="0.0" offset="150" targetRPM="5000" /> </Engine> </Engines> <DriveTrains> <DriveTrain type="GenericDriveTrain"> <GearBox gearRatios="1" reverseGearRatio="1" /> <Clutch maxClutchTorque="5000" /> <Engine index="0" /> <Load name="MainRotor" gearRatio="10.0" /> <Load name="TailRotor" gearRatio="1.739" /> </DriveTrain> </DriveTrains> <ControlSystem> <FCSComponent type="FCSAutoHoverTOH"> <YawController P="0.0" D="0"/> <PitchController P="0.15" D="0.05"/> <RollController P="0.15" D="0.05"/> </FCSComponent> <FCSComponent type="FCSHelicopterAutoTrim100" > <YawRateAndSideslipController printDebugInfo="false"> <YawRatePID P="0.18" I="0.02" D="0.0" offset="0.0" integralMin="-50" integralMax="50" /> <SideslipPID P="0.1" I="0.02" D="0.002" offset="0.0" integralMin="-50" integralMax="50" /> <Transition speedLow="10" speedHigh="20" /> <Maximums maxYawRate="30" maxSideslip="30" /> <InputMapping nonlinearity="1" /> </YawRateAndSideslipController> <PitchRateController printDebugInfo="false"> <PID P="0.02" I="0.04" D="0.001" offset="0.0" integralMin="-25" integralMax="25" /> <MaxPitchRate maxPitchRate="35" /> <InputMapping nonlinearity="1.5" /> </PitchRateController> <RollRateController printDebugInfo="false"> <PID P="0.02" I="0.04" D="0.001" offset="0.0" integralMin="-25" integralMax="25" /> <MaxRollRate maxRollRate="70" /> <InputMapping nonlinearity="1.5" /> </RollRateController> </FCSComponent> <FCSComponent type="FCSRotationDamper"> <YawController P="0" D="0"/> <PitchController P="0.0" D="0"/> <RollController P="0.0" D="0.00"/> </FCSComponent> </ControlSystem> <Rotors> <Rotor type="FGRotorBladeElementTheory"> <ModelConfiguration updateSubstepCount="360" /> <InfoPrint printControlInputs="false" printFlappingInfo="false" printOmega="false" /> <Geometry> <Position x="0.0" y="0.260" z="0.8720" /> <Tilt lateralTilt="0.0" longitudinalTilt="0" /> <Blades radius="4.165" chord="0.171" count="5" hingeOffset="0.128" flappingHingeLowerLimit="-5" flappingHingeHigherLimit="10" /> <Rotation clockwise="false" /> </Geometry> <MechanicalFeatures Ir="155" Ib="200" maxBrakeTorque="500" /> <AerodynamicFeatures> <DesignRPM rpm="503"/> <Blades twist="-7"> <LiftCoefficient> 0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0 5.0 -180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 -176 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 0.5133 -168 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725 0.725 -160 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665 0.665 -152 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875 0.875 -144 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 0.8525 -136 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 0.7225 -128 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 0.5925 -120 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 0.4625 -112 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 0.3325 -104 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 0.2025 -96 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 0.0725 -88 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -0.0575 -80 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -0.1875 -72 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -0.3175 -64 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -0.4475 -56 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -0.5775 -48 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -0.7075 -40 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -0.8375 -32 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -0.9675 -28 -0.996 -0.955 -0.946 -0.93 -0.918 -0.918 -24 -0.988 -0.962 -0.938 -0.89 -0.854 -0.854 -20 -0.98 -0.966 -0.93 -0.85 -0.79 -0.79 -16 -0.982 -0.970 -0.922 -0.81 -0.726 -0.726 -12 -0.95 -1.235 -0.66 -0.79 -0.662 -0.662 -8 -0.89 -0.8 -0.55 -0.75 -0.62 -0.62 -4 -0.46 -0.46 -0.47 -0.47 -0.425 -0.425 0 0.00 0.05 0.075 0.08 -0.05 -0.05 4 0.46 0.510 0.613 0.56 0.45 0.45 8 0.89 0.98 0.915 0.810 0.8 0.8 12 1.25 1.23 1.0 0.845 0.865 0.865 16 0.98 0.96 1.08 0.86 0.895 0.895 20 0.9856 0.9714 1.053 0.9 0.925 0.925 24 0.9912 0.9828 1.031 0.94 0.955 0.955 28 0.997 0.9942 1.01 0.98 0.985 0.985 32 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 0.9675 40 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 0.8375 48 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 0.7075 56 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 0.5775 64 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 0.4475 72 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 0.3175 80 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 0.1875 88 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 0.0575 96 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 -0.0725 104 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 -0.2025 112 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 -0.3325 120 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 -0.4625 128 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 -0.5925 136 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 -0.7225 144 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 -0.8525 152 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 -0.875 160 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 -0.665 168 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 -0.725 176 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 -0.5133 180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 </LiftCoefficient> <DragCoefficient > 0.0 0.4 0.6 0.8 1.0 5.0 -180 0 0 0 0 0 0 -176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 -168 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995 0.995 -160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 -152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 -144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 -136 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 0.9762 -128 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 1.1712 -120 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 1.3662 -112 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561 1.561 -104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 -96 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952 1.952 -88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 -80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 -72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 -64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 -56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 -48 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262 1.262 -40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 -32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 -28 0.562 0.57 0.578 0.593 0.601 0.601 -24 0.417 0.448 0.469 0.52 0.543 0.543 -20 0.267 0.33 0.361 0.44 0.486 0.486 -16 0.12 0.208 0.285 0.364 0.428 0.428 -12 0.018 0.022 0.191 0.29 0.37 0.37 -8 0.008 0.009 0.07 0.16 0.248 0.248 -4 0.0055 0.008 0.0125 0.065 0.152 0.152 0 0.0035 0.008 0.008 0.017 0.09 0.09 4 0.0055 0.0085 0.011 0.09 0.1525 0.1525 8 0.008 0.014 0.073 0.17 0.249 0.249 12 0.018 0.028 0.179 0.285 0.37 0.37 16 0.12 0.13 0.283 0.361 0.428 0.428 20 0.265 0.345 0.358 0.435 0.486 0.486 24 0.455 0.455 0.467 0.508 0.543 0.543 28 0.56 0.56 0.576 0.583 0.601 0.601 32 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 0.6975 40 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 0.9725 48 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 1.2625 56 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 1.554 64 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 1.826 72 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 2.005 80 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 2.086 88 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 2.079 96 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 1.9525 104 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 1.76 112 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 1.5612 120 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366 1.366 128 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171 1.171 136 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976 0.976 144 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 0.7825 152 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 0.68 160 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 0.84 168 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996 0.996 176 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 0.733 180 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 0.0 </DragCoefficient> </Blades> <Controls A1UL="5.5" A1LL="-5.5" B1UL="8" B1LL="-8.0" thetaLL="5" thetaUL="17.3" useExtendedCollectiveRange="false" /> </AerodynamicFeatures> </Rotor> <Rotor type="FGRotorMomentumTheory"> <Geometry> <Position x="-0.1" y="-4.9460" z="-0.0080"/> <Tilt lateralTilt="-90.0" longitudinalTilt="0.0" /> <Blades radius="0.71" chord="0.050" count="2" hingeOffset="0.0" /> <Delta3 angle="0" /> </Geometry> <MechanicalFeatures Ir="0.35" Ib="0.027"/> <AerodynamicFeatures> <GroundEffect magnitude="0.05" /> <DesignRPM rpm="2874"/> <Blades liftCurveSlope="0.11" zeroLiftDragCoefficient="0.007" twist="0.0" /> <Controls A1UL="0" A1LL="0" B1UL="0" B1LL="0" thetaLL="17" thetaUL="-27" useExtendedCollectiveRange="true"/> <Power inducedPowerCorrectionFactor="1.05" /> <DynamicPressureRatio> <Sideslip> -1000 0.91 -30 0.91 -25 0.80 -20 0.72 -15 0.65 -10 0.60 -5 0.58 0 0.56 5 0.58 10 0.60 15 0.65 20 0.72 25 0.80 30 0.91 1000 0.91 </Sideslip> </DynamicPressureRatio> <Inplanewash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 0 0 0 10 -0.17 20 0.043 30 0.26 40 0.464 50 0.69 60 0.89 70 1.12 80 1.33 90 0.69 100 0 1000 0.86 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 0 0 -0.34 10 -0.52 20 -0.17 30 0.10 40 0.31 50 0.52 60 0.71 70 0.91 80 1.12 90 0.57 100 0 1000 0 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 -0.48 0 -0.48 10 -0.69 20 -0.64 30 -0.27 40 0.03 50 0.27 60 0.52 70 0.74 80 0.96 90 0.46 100 0 </High_a1> </Inplanewash> <Downwash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 -0.12 0 -0.12 10 0.71 20 1.60 30 1.62 40 1.66 50 1.67 60 1.67 70 1.73 80 1.50 90 1.26 100 1.01 1000 1.01 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 0.36 0 0.36 10 0.84 20 1.64 30 1.70 40 1.76 50 1.82 60 1.85 70 1.90 80 1.68 90 1.44 100 1.20 1000 1.20 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 0.69 0 0.69 10 1.21 20 1.70 30 1.76 40 1.83 50 1.90 60 1.97 70 2.03 80 1.92 90 1.74 100 1.39 1000 1.39 </High_a1> </Downwash> </AerodynamicFeatures> </Rotor> </Rotors> <StabilizersAndWings> <HorizontalStabilizerRight> <Geometry> <Position x="1.8140" y="-4.9460" z="0.9800"/> <Up x="0.0" y="0.03489" z="0.9993908"/> <Front x="0" y="0.9993908" z="-0.03489"/> <SurfaceArea area="0.291028"/> </Geometry> <ControlResponse controlSurfaceLiftCoeffDerivative="0.0" controlSurfaceForceArmPos="0.0" /> <AerodynamicFeatures> <DynamicPressureRatio> <AoA> -1000 0.93 -30 0.93 -25 0.93 -20 0.88 -15 0.71 -10 0.71 -5 0.71 0 0.71 5 0.71 10 0.71 15 0.76 20 0.85 25 0.93 30 0.93 1000 0.93 </AoA> </DynamicPressureRatio> <MainRotorInplanewash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 0 0 0 10 -0.18 20 0.04 30 0.26 40 0.47 50 0.70 60 0.91 70 1.14 80 1.36 90 0.70 100 0 1000 0 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 -0.35 0 -0.35 10 -0.53 20 -0.18 30 0.11 40 0.32 50 0.53 60 0.73 70 0.93 80 1.14 90 0.58 100 0 1000 0 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 -0.49 0 -0.49 10 -0.70 20 -0.65 30 -0.28 40 0.03 50 0.28 60 0.53 70 0.76 80 0.99 90 0.47 100 0 1000 0 </High_a1> </MainRotorInplanewash> <MainRotorDownwash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 -0.12 0 -0.12 10 0.74 20 1.66 30 1.67 40 1.71 50 1.73 60 1.76 70 1.78 80 1.55 90 1.30 100 1.05 1000 1.05 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 0.37 0 0.37 10 0.86 20 1.69 30 1.76 40 1.82 50 1.88 60 1.91 70 1.97 80 1.74 90 1.49 100 1.24 1000 1.24 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 0.72 0 0.72 10 1.25 20 1.76 30 1.82 40 1.89 50 1.97 60 2.03 70 2.10 80 1.99 90 1.80 100 1.43 1000 1.43 </High_a1> </MainRotorDownwash> <GroundEffect startDistance="1.6" strength="0.0"/> <LiftCurve> -1000 0 -180 0 -150 0.61 -140 0.69 -130 0.69 -120 0.61 -110 0.46 -100 0.24 -90 0 -80 -0.24 -70 -0.46 -60 -0.61 -50 -0.69 -40 -0.79 -30 -0.91 0 -0.5 30 0.91 40 0.79 50 0.69 60 0.61 70 0.46 80 0.24 90 0 100 -0.24 110 -0.46 120 -0.61 130 -0.69 140 -0.69 150 -0.61 180 0 1000 0 </LiftCurve> <DragCurve > -1000 0.0 -180 0.0 -140 0.42 -130 0.56 -120 0.71 -110 0.84 -100 0.93 -90 0.96 -80 0.93 -70 0.84 -60 0.71 -50 0.56 -40 0.42 0 0.008 40 0.42 50 0.56 60 0.71 70 0.84 80 0.93 90 0.96 100 0.93 110 0.84 120 0.71 130 0.56 140 0.42 180 0.0 1000 0.0 </DragCurve> </AerodynamicFeatures> </HorizontalStabilizerRight> <HorizontalStabilizerLeft copy="HorizontalStabilizerRight"> <Geometry> <Position x="-1.8140" /> </Geometry> </HorizontalStabilizerLeft> <VerticalStabilizer> <Geometry> <Position x="0" y="-4.778" z="0.1340"/> <Up x="-1.0" y="0.0" z="0"/> <Front x="0" y="1.0" z="0"/> <SurfaceArea area="0.59"/> </Geometry> <ControlResponse controlSurfaceLiftCoeffDerivative="0.0" controlSurfaceForceArmPos="0.0" /> <AerodynamicFeatures> <DynamicPressureRatio> <Sideslip> -1000 0.95 -30 0.95 -25 0.84 -20 0.75 -15 0.68 -10 0.63 -5 0.61 0 0.59 5 0.61 10 0.63 15 0.68 20 0.75 25 0.84 30 0.95 1000 0.95 </Sideslip> </DynamicPressureRatio> <MainRotorInplanewash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 0 0 0 10 -0.18 20 0.04 30 0.27 40 0.49 50 0.73 60 0.95 70 1.18 80 1.41 90 0.73 100 0 1000 0 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 -0.36 0 -0.36 10 -0.55 20 -0.18 30 0.11 40 0.33 50 0.55 60 0.75 70 0.96 80 1.18 90 0.60 100 0 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 -0.51 0 -0.51 10 -0.73 20 -0.67 30 -0.29 40 0.04 50 0.29 60 0.55 70 0.78 80 1.02 90 0.49 100 0 1000 0 </High_a1> </MainRotorInplanewash> <MainRotorDownwash> <Low_a1 a1 ="-6"> -1000 -0.12 0 -0.12 10 0.74 20 1.67 30 1.69 40 1.73 50 1.75 60 1.78 70 1.80 80 1.57 90 1.32 100 1.06 1000 1.06 </Low_a1> <Medium_a1 a1 ="0"> -1000 0.37 0 0.37 10 0.87 20 1.71 30 1.78 40 1.84 50 1.90 60 1.93 70 1.99 80 1.76 90 1.51 100 1.26 1000 1.26 </Medium_a1> <High_a1 a1 ="6"> -1000 0.72 0 0.72 10 1.26 20 1.78 30 1.84 40 1.92 50 1.99 60 2.05 70 2.12 80 2.01 90 1.82 100 1.45 1000 1.45 </High_a1> </MainRotorDownwash> <GroundEffect startDistance="0" strength="0.0"/> <LiftCurve > -180 0 -170 0.34 -160 0.74 -150 0.80 -140 0.72 -130 0.57 -120 0.43 -110 0.29 -100 0.15 -90 0 -80 -0.15 -70 -0.29 -60 -0.43 -50 -0.57 -40 -0.72 -30 -0.80 -25 -1.00 -20 -1.34 0 0 20 1.34 25 1.00 30 0.80 40 0.72 50 0.57 60 0.43 70 0.29 80 0.15 90 0 100 -0.15 110 -0.29 120 -0.43 130 -0.57 140 -0.72 150 -0.80 160 -0.74 170 -0.34 180 0 </LiftCurve> <DragCurve> -1000 0.0 -180 0.0 -140 0.42 -130 0.56 -120 0.71 -110 0.84 -100 0.93 -90 0.96 -80 0.93 -70 0.84 -60 0.71 -50 0.56 -40 0.42 0 0.008 40 0.42 50 0.56 60 0.71 70 0.84 80 0.93 90 0.96 100 0.93 110 0.84 120 0.71 130 0.56 140 0.42 180 0.0 1000 0.0 </DragCurve> </AerodynamicFeatures> </VerticalStabilizer> </StabilizersAndWings> <GroundContacts> <GeneralConfiguration gearExtensionTime="3" gearDragCoefficient="0" gearReferenceArea="0" maxSteerableGearDeflection="80" steerableGearSpeedCorrectionFactor="0.0"/> <GroundContact type="FGGroundContact200" > <Features isBrakable="false" isRetractable="false" isSteerable="false" /> <Aerodynamics equivalentFlatPlateArea ="0.0" /> <Suspension> <MountStation x="-1.052" y="1.6933" z="-1.6717"/> <SliderAxis x="0" y="0" z="1" /> <SuspensionLength length="0.2" /> <SpringParameters springConstant="420000" damperConstant="50000" maxCompression="0.18" /> </Suspension> <Wheel mass="1" radius="0.1" > <RollAxis x="1" y="0" z="0" /> <Friction slidingFriction="0.8" resistanceTorqueNoBrake="1000" resistanceTorqueFullBrake="1000" /> </Wheel> <Damage thresholdLoad="20000000" /> </GroundContact> <GroundContact type="FGGroundContact200" > <Features isBrakable="false" isRetractable="false" isSteerable="false" /> <Aerodynamics equivalentFlatPlateArea ="0.0" /> <Suspension> <MountStation x="1.052" y="1.6933" z="-1.6717"/> <SliderAxis x="0" y="0" z="1" /> <SuspensionLength length="0.2" /> <SpringParameters springConstant="420000" damperConstant="50000" maxCompression="0.18" /> </Suspension> <Wheel mass="1" radius="0.1" > <RollAxis x="1" y="0" z="0" /> <Friction slidingFriction="0.8" resistanceTorqueNoBrake="1000" resistanceTorqueFullBrake="1000" /> </Wheel> <Damage thresholdLoad="20000000" /> </GroundContact> <GroundContact type="FGGroundContact200" > <Features isBrakable="false" isRetractable="false" isSteerable="false" /> <Aerodynamics equivalentFlatPlateArea ="0.0" /> <Suspension> <MountStation x="0.944" y="-0.6387" z="-1.5650"/> <SliderAxis x="0" y="0" z="1" /> <SuspensionLength length="0.2" /> <SpringParameters springConstant="420000" damperConstant="50000" maxCompression="0.18" /> </Suspension> <Wheel mass="1" radius="0.1" > <RollAxis x="1" y="0" z="0" /> <Friction slidingFriction="0.8" resistanceTorqueNoBrake="1000" resistanceTorqueFullBrake="1000" /> </Wheel> <Damage thresholdLoad="20000000" /> </GroundContact> <GroundContact type="FGGroundContact200" > <Features isBrakable="false" isRetractable="false" isSteerable="false" /> <Aerodynamics equivalentFlatPlateArea ="0.0" /> <Suspension> <MountStation x="-0.944" y="-0.6387" z="-1.5650"/> <SliderAxis x="0" y="0" z="1" /> <SuspensionLength length="0.2" /> <SpringParameters springConstant="420000" damperConstant="50000" maxCompression="0.18" /> </Suspension> <Wheel mass="1" radius="0.1" > <RollAxis x="1" y="0" z="0" /> <Friction slidingFriction="0.8" resistanceTorqueNoBrake="1000" resistanceTorqueFullBrake="1000" /> </Wheel> <Damage thresholdLoad="20000000" /> </GroundContact> <GroundContact type="FGGroundContact200" > <Features isBrakable="false" isRetractable="false" isSteerable="false" /> <Aerodynamics equivalentFlatPlateArea ="0.0" /> <Suspension> <MountStation x="0" y="-4.341" z="-0.65"/> <SliderAxis x="0" y="0" z="1" /> <SuspensionLength length="0" /> <SpringParameters springConstant="420000" damperConstant="50000" maxCompression="0" /> </Suspension> <Wheel mass="0.1" radius="0.1" > <RollAxis x="1" y="0" z="0" /> <Friction slidingFriction="0.8" resistanceTorqueNoBrake="1000" resistanceTorqueFullBrake="1000" /> </Wheel> <Damage thresholdLoad="20000000" /> </GroundContact> </GroundContacts> </GenHeli600> Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 10, 2011 I knew there had to be some meat and potatoes to these profiles somewhere. This is it. Only question... where can I download Extractpbo or a similar extracting/packing program that will work? All the links I click lead me to a page that talks about it, but does not have a download link. Sorry to be a noob, but I have absolutely zero experience with modding BIS programs (can you tell?). Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
froggyluv 2136 Posted November 10, 2011 I use Eliteness - works great. http://dev-heaven.net/projects/mikero-pbodll/files Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0 Posted November 10, 2011 better provide him a direct link ;) download this dev-heaven.net/attachments/download/12756/Eliteness2.88.rar and this dev-heaven.net/attachments/download/15244/DePbo3.72.rar extract Eliteness2.88 where you want the program to go then place Depbo.dll (3.72) inside the Eliteness folder. Eliteness can both extract and compile pbo files Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
tnprvteye 10 Posted November 10, 2011 I think you need the DePBO dlls extracted into the same directory as Eliteness. I read that somewhere, so I went ahead and downloaded them just n case. ---------- Post added at 08:48 PM ---------- Previous post was at 08:48 PM ---------- DOH...someone beat me to it! :D Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 10, 2011 Thanks to Ziggy, I have a basic understanding of how to unpack and repack the PBOs. I will play around with some edits. More later. Thanks for the help guys! I'm really excited to be able to take this issue on personally. After looking through the .XML file for the helicopters, it looks like all of the key elements are present, and changing some values may be all that is necessary to make these things fly better. It looks like heli_flying has already accomplished some of this. Having real pilots at the controls of the flight dynamics coding is a good thing! Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twisted 128 Posted November 10, 2011 well done to heli-flying. that's a mad mass of numbers. this is the community at its best - collaborating on something as fundamental as this. with real knowledge imparted by expeirenced heli pilots. the potential is there if the system allows the real tweaks required at this level. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
-DirTyDeeDs--Ziggy- 0 Posted November 10, 2011 (edited) Np nightsta1ker, glad to assist. I have no desire to mess with that XML, but I am willing to help those that do. :cool: * nightsta1ker, please see this thread and observe the Devs input about flightstick lag adjustment http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=126795&page=2 Edited November 10, 2011 by [DirTyDeeDs]-Ziggy- Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
jm2 10 Posted November 10, 2011 Hi. As i began to fly at TOH, i wondered how the flight model was working. First i thought, all i know about real / rc helicopters is wrong, so i didn´t write my opinion about the FM in this forum. But now, when i see all the other peoples posts, i know i´am not the only one who thinks the FM is done wrong. It feels like that the main rotor blades pitch is axactly the same at each blade and the direction of the helicopter is controlled by the hulls position. I think behemia didn´t understand how this rotorheadsystem works that are used at the TOH helicopters. As far as i know, this rotorhead was invented by MBB (Messerschmitt Bölkow Blohm) and were first used at the legendary Bo-105. The TOH FM looks like it is using a fixed rotorhead with only collective pitch and totally ingnores the of cyclic controlls. Thats why the helicopters in TOH shows such sluggish controlls. Its also correct that - as someone posted before - that you have to keep the stick in forward position to keep the heli flying forward. When you center the stick, the helis speed should decrease slowly till it starts to hover and caused by mass of the helicopter that is placed under the rotor, it must be much more keep a stable position. Watch this video, at 8:50 the off voice says the pilot can get the hands off the controlls withouth the heli is getting out of controll and at 9:00 you´ll see a Bo-105 doing a stunt that would behemia make thinking about the TOH flight model ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpMeB_zBfoU&feature=related And watch this to see how agile a helicopter with cyclic pitch should response to the controlls. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
buznee 0 Posted November 12, 2011 Hi.As i began to fly at TOH, i wondered how the flight model was working. First i thought, all i know about real / rc helicopters is wrong, so i didn´t write my opinion about the FM in this forum. But now, when i see all the other peoples posts, i know i´am not the only one who thinks the FM is done wrong. It feels like that the main rotor blades pitch is axactly the same at each blade and the direction of the helicopter is controlled by the hulls position. I think behemia didn´t understand how this rotorheadsystem works that are used at the TOH helicopters. As far as i know, this rotorhead was invented by MBB (Messerschmitt Bölkow Blohm) and were first used at the legendary Bo-105. The TOH FM looks like it is using a fixed rotorhead with only collective pitch and totally ingnores the of cyclic controlls. Thats why the helicopters in TOH shows such sluggish controlls. Its also correct that - as someone posted before - that you have to keep the stick in forward position to keep the heli flying forward. When you center the stick, the helis speed should decrease slowly till it starts to hover and caused by mass of the helicopter that is placed under the rotor, it must be much more keep a stable position. Watch this video, at 8:50 the off voice says the pilot can get the hands off the controlls withouth the heli is getting out of controll and at 9:00 you´ll see a Bo-105 doing a stunt that would behemia make thinking about the TOH flight model ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpMeB_zBfoU&feature=related And watch this to see how agile a helicopter with cyclic pitch should response to the controlls. Not sure what you are talking about there. The 3 helicopters in TOH are modeled off of the MD500, Bell 412, and EH101/NH60. None of which have any link to the Bo-105. The MD500 has a fully articulated rotor, the Bell 412 has a flex beam for flapping, and the EH101/NH60 rotor heads I believe are fully articulated as well. Bo-105 is considered a semi-rigid rotor design in which the feather, flapping, are not hinged, not sure on the lead-lag portion. Also the aircraft flight dynamics have the basics quite well modeled. The models need tweaking mostly with respect to power, drag, and stability characteristics which can be best enhanced by comparing to real world flight test data. I have no issues doing loops and rolls with the MD500 model. Half the battle is setting up the controls so that the sensitivities are realistic and performing the manuever under the right flight conditions. I would mess around with your dead zones and sensitivities and practice a bit more with energy management and piloting before knocking on the flight model. Also... trim is your friend. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
scarp 10 Posted November 12, 2011 Watch this video, at 8:50 the off voice says the pilot can get the hands off the controlls withouth the heli is getting out of controll and at 9:00 you´ll see a Bo-105 doing a stunt that would behemia make thinking about the TOH flight model ;) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dpMeB_zBfoU&feature=related And watch this to see how agile a helicopter with cyclic pitch should response to the controlls. That is very much doable in TKOH, despite some of the flaws in the FD :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 15, 2011 I thought it relevant to post that after doing some in depth testing of the aircraft in an organized and structured manner, I have found some of my original issues with the fd to be slightly inaccurate. This does not mean there are not flaws with the fd, there are, but they are not what I thought they were, and they may be adjustable/fixable. I was contacted by a member of RTD and we are discussing the perceived issues. I am sure some good will come of this. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
purepassion 22 Posted November 15, 2011 nightsta1ker thanks for all of your effort you make to improve the game for everyone :) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
twisted 128 Posted November 15, 2011 I thought it relevant to post that after doing some in depth testing of the aircraft in an organized and structured manner, I have found some of my original issues with the fd to be slightly inaccurate. This does not mean there are not flaws with the fd, there are, but they are not what I thought they were, and they may be adjustable/fixable. I was contacted by a member of RTD and we are discussing the perceived issues.I am sure some good will come of this. excellent news. especially the originators of the FM contacting you! Good luck and look forward to seeing what happens here. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
EagleEye-GER- 0 Posted November 16, 2011 nightsta1kerthanks for all of your effort you make to improve the game for everyone :) plus 1:) Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
DenisFerrari 10 Posted November 17, 2011 ;2058148']plus 1:) +1 Denis Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
nightsta1ker 10 Posted November 17, 2011 Here what I have gathered so far. Flight dynamics are being addressed right now for an upcoming patch. I also have some insight into why there were behavior discrepancies in the first place. Creating an accurate flight model o a specific aircraft takes a significant amount time and resources and considering these aircraft are fictional, and there were time and budget constraints, the FMs came out unconvincing. After having some discussion with RTD about blade element theory and it's relationship to the aircraft, I feel that the flight PHYSICS regarding the rotor have been modeled correctly, but there are missing pieces from the equation that created an unnatural feel. To sum it up: the rotorsystem does some pretty crazy stuff up there above the body o he helicopter, but due to mechanical hinges in the rotor system it is allowed to do those things without overly affecting flight controls or disturbing the airframe. The body of the helicopter HANGS from the rotor system like a pendulum (yes, I've given this spiel before), so gravity dampens alot of the effects the rotorsystem would inflict on it if the connection were more rigid. In fact early helicopters had his problem, and before they created flapping hinges helicopters could not move into forward flight, they would roll over. In any case, these issues ARE being addressed. Those guys at RTD are pretty sharp. And BIS is taking this seriously. Share this post Link to post Share on other sites
