Dragon Rising has been released

If someone shouts "ArmA is buggy", answer "So name me 20-30 bugs you've encountered last week" :) It's funny to see how people will argue afterwards.

But I've noticed another strange thing in the last weeks. Seems like there are flashmobs on Youtube that rate ArmA II videos with 1 point to make the game look worse in the user's opinion. However I don't have any proof. Video uploaders should have an eye on their ratings.

This is a bug on Youtube. Many many video's if you just do the summary show one star, but when you click on the vid, the real stars show up. It's a bug.

regarding what i started on previous site: today i opened again this forum (PC LAB, Polish board about PC in general, not only games ) and answers were "people know that Arma is buggy"

and really it is a problem, cause most customers (including me) rely on people's opinions

i don't buy something if 100 people say it is shit (camera, car, whatever)

and such black PR is something wrong (generally i come from country where we hate propaganda)

everywhere i turn i hear "arma buggy, dragon rise most realistic game" :/

and it is a problem

of course i don't want to start another topic about idiots in real life (i started one and it was pointless cause i found how many people do not understand single basic things)

and the same goes to gaming

thousands of boys say "arma buggy" "feeling and gameplay in DR is super"

and what can do usual customer do ? as in Poland we say "from steet" (which means "no experience, like man who was born yesterday") who is not member of community for years, what such gamer can do, if he reads on an on and on "Arma buggy, DR great" ?

for us DR is shit because we know PR lies (sequel, military realism like never before), but other people ?

of course you can say - don't are, easy, they just waste money

but they will give their money to liars from CM and it is a problem

when they decide other way, BIS have more to work on A2, now CM liars are happy because their lies work and people buy and play few hours, no matter that tank is kick by tree, no matter that they stuck on smallest rock, no matter 3 man to command and 63 AI on map...

of course Arma2 has many (for us) annoying bugs, when you do mission, but those bugs are nothing comparing to limitations of DR

cause even musician from Dream Theater can miss string/sound once (and than we will notice it) while son of "famous star" cannot even sing and uses PC to fix his voice and plays from playback (but for us it is senseless to even mention Enrique) :/

the same with games, Arma annoys me from time to time, when AI won't do something, but i can even not compare to DR limits :]

Edited November 12, 2009 by vilas

There's a sad kind of fascination in watching Dragon Rising drowning.

@Luhgnut:

I'm aware of this bug, but I didn't mean this :) Bugs usually don't leave up to 10 flame comments in a row :) However most users are reacting quickly and simply delete those comments. My videos are not affected as there aren't known so well.

In restrospective I totally hate this flame war. I blame the german game magazines for it. Has anyone watched the critic podcasts after the ArmA II release? There wasn't a single positive feature mentioned. However they praised Dragon Rising like hell. The users splitted up and the hate began. They weren't competitors anymore, they were enemys from now on. As for me, I don't hate the DR community. In the german support forums there are some DR players I think, but they've never behaved unfriendly. But I hate Codemasters *lol* not only because of DR, and I simply don't like the way they made DR a simple shooter.

Can't image how it'll be if Dragon Rising had been completed as just as promised. I guess it would have been a community boost for both games. Now most of the DR players split up to Call of Duty 6 or ArmA II. I can live with that. Maybe there're some talented modders out there.

regarding what i started on previous site: today i opened again this forum (PC LAB, Polish board about PC in general, not only games ) and answers were "people know that Arma is buggy"

and really it is a problem, cause most customers (including me) rely on people's opinions

From my point of view that's the biggest problem of BIS right now. A few time ago i posted what i, as a computer and security engineering, think that could help BIS on solving this big problem.

I think BIS should take a carefully deep look to teir delevopment and beta testing process, and also, if it's needed, to their publisher contract. it's not acceptable that a game reach the gold status with the problems of arma and arma2, obviously here everybody knowns that bis will patch the game, but the problem is that with the reputation that BIS actually has they will loose lots of potentially customers simply by saying "game developed by BIS"

Hope this positive criticism will be listen by someone of BIS and take it in consideration so they can improve the stability and playability of their games in the future.

btw, if someone wants to read my post about the beta-testing process, here you have my post:

Let me make a positive critic, this is my personal point of view.

The biggest thing i think BIS needs for OA is not related to engine fixes or campaigns, it's a major improve of their internal beta testing procedures. All BIS games have been bugged on the release, but the problem is that the bugs where easily found by the users, so, it's obviously that the internal beta testing process is very very bad.

From my point of view, and my laboral experience, Marek and Ondrej should thake a deep look here and apply that to developmet process: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Software_testing

I think this is a bigger problem than BIS and community thinks. Pc users have the feeling that BIS games are only playable after four or five patches, and i know about 30 people who says that they will buy the game after that patches were released, other people will simply download the game and other will not play the game and spread the fact that BIS games are bugged on main pc games forums (for example, if you know spanish, go to www.media-vida.com, one of the biggest spanish gaming community, forums and take a look to the arma2 thread).

For example, when i announce the expansion in an small community the first answer was: "Great, welcome new bugs, bye bye old bugs"

Thats a very bad propaganda for BIS games, and i think that should be priority number one on the internal BIS development process. A game/expansion without bugs is better than the same expansion with new features but with the old and new bugs.

Obviously distributors always want to have the game finished on the date specified on the contract, but it's always better to delay that date and finish the beta testing process, and if the distributor don't understand that (hi Morphicon guys) maybe you should find a new one who were more flexible on that point.

As i said before, this is my personal opinion, but based on my 8 years experience on system administration and my experience with "brand new software" uninstalled from my servers when i found critical bugs that make my platform unstable.

Regards.

Well, this rather puts the cap on it, I'd imagine.

"After liaising with the dev team, it will not be possible to implement dedicated servers post-launch for the game."

Their community moderator Helios has just dropped the bomb... not a big surprise I guess, but expect to see some proper fireworks over there now.

I think BIS should take a carefully deep look to teir delevopment and beta testing process, and also, if it's needed, to their publisher contract. it's not acceptable that a game reach the gold status with the problems of arma and arma2, obviously here everybody knowns that bis will patch the game, but the problem is that with the reputation that BIS actually has they will loose lots of potentially customers simply by saying "game developed by BIS"

What bothers me about this emphasis on a bug-free release is that they might take the same approach every other studio does and simply curtail their ambition. In the context of the game's massively open world I actually consider ArmA II to be amazingly free from defects and believe that the first public release of something so non-linear will inevitably always turn up things that no amount of testing could be certain of finding.

Well, I think this is mr.Lenton's only true comment for their community:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_polaris/3303181085/

I kinda feel sorry for all who bought the game... no wait..

I really don't!

:rolleyes:

What bothers me about this emphasis on a bug-free release is that they might take the same approach every other studio does and simply curtail their ambition. In the context of the game's massively open world I actually consider ArmA II to be amazingly free from defects and believe that the first public release of something so non-linear will inevitably always turn up things that no amount of testing could be certain of finding.

This +1. That's what I've always thought about BIS - they shouldn't be slagged off for their open world ambitions, they should be praised to the bloody skies for it.

That's what made me laugh so hard when Codies released the Free Roam mission DLC - I just thought, wow, way to go fellas, you've err unlocked the whole empty island you always said would be in the game anyway... no enemies, no people, no settlements worth the candle, no atmosphere, just a big tour round this samey, brown, deserted landmass. Then you had people on the Codies forums saying things like "Wouldn't it be great if you could run into random enemy patrols etc" and I was just sitting thinking "Oh, you mean like the Ambient Combat Module..."

What bothers me about this emphasis on a bug-free release is that they might take the same approach every other studio does and simply curtail their ambition. In the context of the game's massively open world I actually consider ArmA II to be amazingly free from defects and believe that the first public release of something so non-linear will inevitably always turn up things that no amount of testing could be certain of finding.

Absolutelly no. I'm not saying that game should be bug-free, but, for example, if you use the civilian life module on the editor you will see that some civs are stuck on the floor or walls. And another one, manhattan bugs for example. Both bugs should be easily detected on the betatesting process as people detected it when game was released, so, if they made a good betetesting process, wich is very very complex and difficult, they must find it and fix it. It's not acceptable that the game reach the gold status and you cannot end the sp campaign. Obviously thats my personal opinion.

Well, I think this is mr.Lenton's only true comment for their community:

http://www.flickr.com/photos/sir_polaris/3303181085/

I kinda feel sorry for all who bought the game... no wait..

I really don't!

:rolleyes:

I notice it's a day after MW2 has been released and they are unlikely to get anymore sales :rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes::rolleyes:

Im coming from the CM forums......

Let me warn you all who intend to play/buy DR.

As much as it pains me to say it but im grown up enough to admit when i was wrong.... You guys over here in the BiS forums were right.

Hi bOb

First of all welcome to the forum and the BIS community. I did not purchase OFP DR so far and haven’t played it myself. I had a strange gut feeling about DR and I wanted first to play the demo to get an idea about the game. But when the demo release has been postponed I knew that there was something terribly wrong.

I was following with interest all the development of DR on CM forum, and I read so much topics before and after release to get quite a good idea, but it is nothing compared to who has actually purchased and played the game. Since I’m a so called fan boy I did not register on CM forum and avoided to add to the general bashing DR received from their gaming community and being bashed by them for being an ArmA fan boy .

None of all this would have happened in case CM would have used another name for the game, since they used the Operation Flashpoint brand it was logical that all former OFP fans had quite high expectations. We all wanted the game to be good and in the end everything turned out so wrong. I believe that all former OFP Veterans have been very disappointed of the final release because DR has nothing what made the first OFP so great

I’m playing BIS games since 2001, the release of the first OFP, and therefore naturally I was expecting that CM would have released a game that could keep up with the first one or at least would have been at the same level or even better. This hasn’t happened. I read some bitter complaining and I felt quite bad about all the disappointed and angry people over at CM forum. I believe that all the people who like it, are mostly console players which have never played the original one, this is only a supposition of mine, and therefore don’t know better about what made the first one so great. All OFP veterans will have definitely disliked it.

It is also true that the BIS releases have been all buggy and that starting with Armed Assault /Combat Operation they have gained a quite bad reputation of producing buggy games and that is a fact but given the magnitude of the BIS games I believe it’s a mission impossible to release a game which is flawless.. When I purchase a BIS game I already know that it won’t be perfect from the beginning and that they have to apply patches to get it right. But as I said I’m a fan boy and can live with that because I know that BIS cares about their fan base and that all bugs will be ironed out with future patches. They also released a new beta patch for Armed Assault/Combat Operations not withstanding their new title ArmA II has been released for some month now. JFI.

The only thing I wish is that they would reconsider the quality control which doesn’t work properly and therefore has gained them the fame to be a developer of buggy games.

The money I’ve spent for BIS games has been repaid a million times by countless hours of pure fun. I’m playing for 8 years straight now without ever annoying myself. I take some breaks from time to time to check out other FPS. I played GR, the COD titles until MW1, Vietcong and so on.

I played until the 3rd mission in MW1 for e.g and I left it there. In the end I’m always turning back very quickly to BIS games. There is no better war game out there for the time being.

A better game must be invented first before I gonna switch.

Damn didn’t have the intention to write a novel.LOL:D

In any case welcome once again.

Stay tuned

nettrucker:D

Well, this rather puts the cap on it, I'd imagine.

"After liaising with the dev team, it will not be possible to implement dedicated servers post-launch for the game."

Their community moderator Helios has just dropped the bomb... not a big surprise I guess, but expect to see some proper fireworks over there now.

as for non-native eng. speaker, can someone please tell me what it means ?

for me it is hard to understand "liasting with developers team" ?

post-launch ?

what it means technically, please, i am not so far advanced in english

as for non-native eng. speaker, can someone please tell me what it means ?

for me it is hard to understand "liasting with developers team" ?

post-launch ?

what it means technically, please, i am not so far advanced in english

It means: No dedicated servers.

btw, on CM forums:

'After liaising with the dev team...' = 'It's not balanced for...' :D

as for non-native eng. speaker, can someone please tell me what it means ?

for me it is hard to understand "liasting with developers team" ?

post-launch ?

what it means technically, please, i am not so far advanced in english

It means after meeting with the Dev's. Don't worry about your english, pretty sure 'liaison' is a french expression. They must have picked this up at the Cannes.

Basic translation :

I talked to the developers and they said that we can never make dedicated servers

I kinda feel bad for buying the game, then I remember that I once bought Soldner : Secret Wars... then the rage returns, must kill General Ping Pong

Hah, Soldner, looked good on paper, but the game was really bad. Even though, I played it MP, it was a little bit of fun for a while. That game was really really buggy, but what do you expect from Jowood? ;)

Thanks to everyone who welcomed me and replied.

Im only sorry my first post here was a rant, well i see it more of a warning than anything else. I will try out a2 demo see if it runs ok on my comp when i eventually fix my memory errors with a couple of new sticks of RAM.

I know from A1+QG release there were a lot of show stopping bugs well for me atleast. This did put me off buying A2, however from what i have read there are still some minor bugs left in A2, this i expected.

HOWEVER it seems like BiS are more equipped to handle these problems than codmasters ( again not a typo ) and it also seems that they are genuinely working towards fixing those things. This seems in todays gaming to be a rareity. Seems like companies nowadays just want to make a quick buck and leave it at that with no longevity or support.

This Community ( capital "C" as it seems it deserves it ;) ) is quite astonishing really, im a bit taken back by them to tell you the truth. Even though it seems A2 has had some major problems there's STILL a massive fanbase.

This is a great testament to BiS and shows they are doing something right by communicating with the public. In the past i have been guilty if slagging BiS off after A1+QG but i didnt really understand how communities are built back then and im sorry for the bitching i gave due to my ignorance. Now i have seen first hand how NOT to build a community with codmasters i sort of understand how it all works now at BiS.

I have heard rumours that there will be a console version for A2 or OAH ( ? ) i really do hope BiS learn from codmasters total ineptitude in dealing with the console and PC market and pull something special out of the bag in the future.

as for non-native eng. speaker, can someone please tell me what it means ?

for me it is hard to understand "liasting with developers team" ?

post-launch ?

what it means technically, please, i am not so far advanced in english

Basically it means "Now MW2 is released we can give the official word to the PC crowd they have been shafted, they wont notice coz they are too busy slagging off MW2"

Just imagine if Codemasters had listened to BIS in the first place about using the Operation flashpoint name, i doubt they would have had this problem they are dealing with now. It very sad that games have headed the same way as the film industry and devs have gotten greedy.

Again i take my hat off to BIS for their constant support to us, the BIS community! :bounce3: Shame their isnt more Dev teams like you chaps, you can tell when a game has heart and soul put in to it! Good job!

P.s welcome to the forums Bob! I totally agree with you with regards to Arma1, Arma 2 is much better!

Edited November 12, 2009 by Jtec

;1487311']I got he same letter from them to check my ISP yadda yadda and I asked them why my friend with 100Mbit cable cant get his ping under 220 to join my game which is hosted on a 1000Mbit Cable...

Jez, it's a standardized answer to a common problem (not even specific to DR) - do you really expect them to type such a list with multiple recommendations (not just 'get faster internet' btw.) anew each time? What do expect them to tell you? Something like 'Wait, I'll get my magic wand and fix it for you'??? It's good to write them (that way your problem gets logged in their bug tracker), but keep real in what you expect as an immediate answer.

BTW: what is your or your friends upstream to the ISP? I doubt is a full 100Mbit. Downstream is fairly irrelevant if information needs to flow both ways, especially for the host of a mp game... Maybe DR is bugged, but ping times are usually more depending on the actual network traffic or the infrastructure used, so the hints given on how to identify possible bottlenecks are not such a bad start.

Oh - and this is not directed specifically at you - just one comment on the "Don't post here if you are a CM fanboy" attitude some people here have shown recently: as far as I know this is not the official 'blame CM' or 'We hate OFP: DR' thread, so as much as you might disapprove, people who like the game or simply don't share your blind hatred have as much right to post here as anyone else. I have the feeling some people here never advanced beyond the "either on our side or theirs" state... Maybe there's more than one side? Maybe it is possible to like more than one game? Maybe its possible to like OFP/ArmA and also DR, GRAW, CoD or PacMan? Maybe not everyone is interested in MP or editing? Just maybe some people have more patience or a more relaxed attitude to ghastly problems like a 'not so perfect as expected' game?

Jez, it's a standardized answer to a common problem (not even specific to DR) - do you really expect them to type such a list with multiple recommendations (not just 'get faster internet' btw.) anew each time? What do expect them to tell you? Something like 'Wait, I'll get my magic wand and fix it for you'??? It's good to write them (that way your problem gets logged in their bug tracker), but keep real in what you expect as an immediate answer.

BTW: what is your or your friends upstream to the ISP? I doubt is a full 100Mbit. Downstream is fairly irrelevant if information needs to flow both ways, especially for the host of a mp game... Maybe DR is bugged, but ping times are usually more depending on the actual network traffic or the infrastructure used, so the hints given on how to identify possible bottlenecks are not such a bad start.

Oh - and this is not directed specifically at you - just one comment on the "Don't post here if you are a CM fanboy" attitude some people here have shown recently: as far as I know this is not the official 'blame CM' or 'We hate OFP: DR' thread, so as much as you might disapprove, people who like the game or simply don't share your blind hatred have as much right to post here as anyone else. I have the feeling some people here never advanced beyond the "either on our side or theirs" state... Maybe there's more than one side? Maybe it is possible to like more than one game? Maybe its possible to like OFP/ArmA and also DR, GRAW, CoD or PacMan? Maybe not everyone is interested in MP or editing? Just maybe some people have more patience or a more relaxed attitude to ghastly problems like a 'not so perfect as expected' game?

Nobody told you not to post here.

The general consensus is : Don't post here expecting everyone to laud DR. You've posted your opinion and most people here DON'T agree.

It seems it is you that has a problem with freedom of expression and not the other way around.

I have heard rumours that there will be a console version for A2 or OAH ( ? ) i really do hope BiS learn from codmasters total ineptitude in dealing with the console and PC market and pull something special out of the bag in the future.

Now that would be great, but BIS has been very quiet about the console versions (couldn't find even a hint at a console version when checking the ArmA II website recently), even tho they originally announced ArmA II for 'PC and next-gen consoles'. I just hope they are still working on this - and that they don't take as long as they did with OFP: Elite - released for the original XBox just shortly before the XBox 360 release, when public interest was already focused on the new console.

---------- Post added at 01:56 PM ---------- Previous post was at 01:52 PM ----------

It seems it is you that has a problem with freedom of expression and not the other way around.

??? Now that I'd really like you to elaborate on...

??? Now that I'd really like you to elaborate on...

It speaks for itself.

You seem to have a problem with anyone that disagrees with your evaluation of DR.

Recognise the game in viiiper's desktop background?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g244/viiiper/IMG_7409.jpg

Source

:)

Edited November 12, 2009 by Fincuan

Recognise the game in viiiper's desktop background?

http://i58.photobucket.com/albums/g244/viiiper/IMG_7409.jpg

:)

ROFLMAO!

Now that's comedy.