machineabuse
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Everything posted by machineabuse
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Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It is also frequently used in this discussion as justification to dismiss the discussion of realism despite many users frequently stating that the OPREP has been read and understood. Also, for many who have actually had trigger time (and because I know it will come up as a semantic argument that opinions are split on this, hence the word "many" and not "all") the weapon sway seems like a poor facsimile for what occurs in reality. The degree of how the discontent is expressed may vary depending on the level of frustration experienced. To dismiss it just because it sounds hyperbolic is tone policing at its lowest. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
For people who don't quite understand; no matter how many times this line from the OPREP is brought up; it will never justify the execution of the simulation beyond critique. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
This. The issue is not the presence of sway, it's the choice of simulation is like a weight on a rubber band which is not what the organs in the human body do. You should only see the rise of fall in the sights from supported shooting positions, otherwise the behavior of "sway" would realistically be represented by the twitch reflex of your muscles as they attempt to keep alignment with the point in space the brain is telling it to. ArmA 2's "sway" was a more faithful and less abstract simulation of that specific behavior. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I think a native option to disable sway is rather extreme. A community based option will surely surface. I sympathize with the players who are having difficulties with the aiming system from a usability standpoint but it's difficult to dispute that it's a great equalizer between players who play more deliberately and players who have the twitch skills to exploit. I maintain though that the specifics of the simulation of both inertia and sway can and should be improved upon to be more natural and intuitive. The overall effect on target acquisition is correct but for many it feels worse than it is due to the choice of abstraction. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
No sir. But for the sake of clarity; I don't work for BIS. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
People exaggerate in regular speech; It's just natural human emote. A designer by training knows how to separate the wheat from the chaff from feedback. That's what we get paid for ;) -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I think the thing in this thread that needs to stop is assuming that the people in this discussion need to be taught to play the game. The fact that we are having a discussion in the Dev Branch forum suggests to a fairly high degree that people joining the discussion are likely to know the topic they are discussing. A lot of this "instruction" attributes frustration and emotional hyperbole to ineptitude and all it results is a lot of talking-down-to which is disrespectful and derailing. To make matters worse is that it triggers confirmation bias of those who are already happy with the status quo and in the end the core of the discontent becomes misrepresented. At the end of the day, the BI Devs have the final say. The discussion here should give them a picture of what people are unhappy with in order to make improvements. -
JSRS Studios Sounds Library
machineabuse replied to LordJarhead's topic in ARMA 3 - ADDONS & MODS: DISCUSSION
This is a really classy move LordJarhead :3 Thanks! -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Speaking on behalf of my group we have been a big fan of VTS weapon resting as it brings to the game the advantage of positioning to the shooting game. A lot of what counts for accuracy mechanics in ArmA 3 currently centers around waiting for your avatar to recover from fatigue, movement, hold breath etc, etc. It's a lot of passive and not a lot of active. Being able to prone out and use the ground or a static object in the world to shoot from adds a mechanic our players can actively use to effectively send rounds downrange after having to sprint to position (as you do when bounding.). We also encourage out players to do things like spread equipment out amongst the fireteam like MG ammo/rockets and what have you. Personally I also organize my gear into 1st/2nd and 3rd line inside my uniform, vest and backpack in case I need to cache my pack to regain stamina. In ACE2 our group used to be in the habit of dropping the pack and use it as a sandbag rest in conjunction with deploying the weapon if we were setting up an ambush at distance. As always the 4 resources of a firefight we try to keep going for us are Time, Distance, Cover and Volume of fire. I'm sure there is some game changing stuff planned for the Marksmanship DLC but I hope they do come up with a weapon resting mechanic that is at least as accessible as VTS is. -
ACRE2 Public Beta Release
machineabuse replied to noubernou's topic in ARMA 3 - ADDONS & MODS: COMPLETE
Nouber you're awesome ;) Mad props for figuring out that bugbear! -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
BlackPixxel: Agreed. Acceleration would work. The thing that the sway on stop behavior doesn't simulate well is the muscles in your body flexing to drive the gun back onto POA. When you throw speed into it it's an energetic, elastic motion where this one meanders like a geriatric who forgot what he was supposed to be doing ;) -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Your point stating the obvious was already covered in the discussion. We've been talking for the most part about both bettering the system, working along means of making the simulation better and some have been discussing the merits of an option to disable the system. In all cases realism is always worth discussing as long as it remains the basis for game mechanic systemizing in ArmA. Even the Inertia system itself is an effort to systemize reality. So it would be inane to NOT discuss it. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
With respect, I think you need to think about that statement in regards to the game this discussion is about. Also "the ends justifies the means" is by no means an ultima ratio. Agreed. It will probably be better after tweaking. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Well you are talking about Kyle Lamb here. There are skill aspects that are handled by ArmA's simulation that we aren't in control of. Think of it as inhabiting the body of a guy who has already learned to control his body to certain degrees. Sight alignment while turning evidently not one of them ;) Yeah, that exactly. It seems to behave sort of correct except in slow motion. My original position was that the system CAN work it just needs more work done to it to meet the stated goals of the OPREP You didn't understand my sentence I think. To clarify; The weapon inertia system has the effect of looking like the weapon is going through the player's face because of the camera motion. In reality you face would be in cheekweld to the stock, hence you would never see the side of the weapon opposite your head unless you released the cheekweld to look over the gun. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Only A zone hits count. I shot the same drill with irons and my best time of 20 attempts was 12 seconds (My phone's shot timer app next to speakers). What I learned doing this drill is that yes you can be fast but the feel is still wrong especially when stopping the sights on a target to press the trigger off. My gut instinct is to not pull the trigger until the sights are absolutely aligned, ignoring that I shot faster but the real shooter in me kept telling me I SHOULD be missing. Again, it's not overly difficult but in some other drills I set up with near and far target transitions I got the feeling that the "bounce" as sway kicks in is animated too slowly. It isn't really clear how as a player I'm supposed to change my movement to get an ideal result but it doesn't seem to be like how I would naturally control stopping on target. Again; ArmA 2 ACE pretty much had standing sway spot on. Day Z standalone does a better job at inertia simulation from the standpoint of physically moving the gun and being able to shoot while turning with the sights aligned correctly. By way of your argument we should be happy with less but again I posit if the system can be improved why not? FWIW the indie game Insurgency uses a very similar system to simulate inertia, however in their model the limit of movement in the front sight is the boundary of the rear sight aperture. It does seem to feel a fair bit more natural as the stock doesn't appear like it's angling through the player's head when turning to the right. Call it the Gun-Through-Face-Effect. -
I had a thought while using ABM; It would be kinda nice if there was possible to detect intractable handles nearby without activating them. Perhaps a bindable "reveal handles" key that showed them up in a small radius. One of the worse problems with ArmA's native action menu is not knowing where the handles are, where you need to be and how far you need to be to use them. This would be helpful answering a lot of those questions.
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Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
The Oprep may not have been linked but it has been referenced directly and indirectly in the conversation ad nauseum. So far no one has had an issue (even once) with the idea that differentiating the handling expression of small and large weapons. Be assured that people who have even found a thread called "Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)" probably did not do so in a knowledge vacuum. It is that the method that the idea has been executed in leaves a lot to be desired for some. It is even more frustrating when one assumes that we are taking issue with the system that we somehow are lacking in knowledge or gaming skill or are unable to... adapt(eeuuuuuurrrrrrghghhhhh). For the nothing that it's worth, personally; my complaint coming from a person who has put a fair amount of trigger time behind guns for pleasure and sport is that it looks and feels wrong. I can live with it but since this thread exists I'm contributing in the chance it can be done better and I think it can. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
It's a lesser of two evils really. Inertia in a firearm is a sensation that is felt and not seen. At very least weapon lagging still allows me to take a turning shot at a reasonable rotation speed. Misalignment on the other hand has me wondering if I should need to take a turning shot if I use the front sight or what if the rear sight is not aligned. I don't see why I should even need to think about that. Too many people here think that accurate shooting is all about waiting for sights to align, waiting for the hold breath to kick in or some other form of waiting. A lot of competitive shooting is flowing into the shot in a way that the inertia & sway system sucks pretty hard at.By way of disclaimer yes this system can be learned and you can get pretty good at it by building certain habits but those habits are for lack of a better word; gamey. Which I would have thought was what such a system was meant to move us away from. Both from what I can observe. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I don't have DayZ but I must say that looks a lot more "authentic" than the method used in A3. -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Great success. ;) -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
From my point of view honestly it seems like you are insistent on attributing his subjective experience to the inertia bug rather than taking his posts at face value that he just doesn't feel that the current system is reasonable. -
ACRE2 Public Beta Release
machineabuse replied to noubernou's topic in ARMA 3 - ADDONS & MODS: COMPLETE
Nouber you tease you ;) Voted! -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
I posit porting the behavior from A2 for anything other than a supported position would be ideal. I'm sure asking him to further elaborate his position would be more fruitful. I cannot speak for A2 vanilla as we played mostly ACE2, however in my experience in ACE2 weapon stability at all ranges was handled well. In optimal conditions hitting at 500+ is not particularly difficult especially if you have an ACOG. Things change as you get tired/wounded/suppressed and also due to the fact that ACE2 had included modeling for wind and more authentic weapon dispersion. The first step to fixing a problem is acknowledging the presence of the problem. The frequency and recurrence of a complaint is also useful data. I'm sure BI will do what BI does regardless of the discussion, it does help though that complaints are heard and to a certain extent humored to see where they go. This is why I'm inclined to at least give 7th_Serf the benefit of the doubt with his observations ;) -
Weapon Inertia & Sway Feedback (dev branch)
machineabuse replied to solzenicyn's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
To make it short, I observe as well that sway kicks in only after inertia has settled which again is not how it works in reality relative to authenticity in the game. I think we all can appreciate that you feel that the way Inertia and Sway is now is good enough for you mate. There are still many of us who feel it could improve. The system's merits speak for themselves and don't require a vicarious defense. We only want to have a better implementation of those merits. This discussion benefits nothing from flinging accusations around at other participants. The sway is only realistic insofar as anyone has read any instructional publication on how to be a more accurate shooter, which frequently omits the fact that the rise and fall of a breathing pattern is only observable in a supported position which they assume you will take when you want to maximize your stability. What involuntary body movement looks like when unsupported (and/or tired) is markedly different. Again; more like how A2 does it. Repeatedly bringing up that the current implementation did not aim to reflect reality is not a constructive counter argument. It leads to a place that presumes nothing can or should be done towards improvement. -
RHS Escalation (AFRF and USAF)
machineabuse replied to soul_assassin's topic in ARMA 3 - ADDONS & MODS: COMPLETE
Little performance optimizations like this are always impressive to see in the modding community though. Looks like a conscious effort to minimize polys. Having the detail is aesthetically nice but smart poly spending adds up. Like the omission of the gas tube under the rail. I can dig it. :) What does look like an accuracy mistake is the flashhider seems to be 4 instead of 5 ports. That or the wrench flat in the flashhider is misaligned with the ports and the ports are canted left.