scrim

What, you surprised that Eastern Europe is wishing Russia had never existed in a moment like this, when approaches to democracy and the West is meat with a Soviet era invasion and an annexation not carried out since the Nazis? Just the official Russian plans in case of a war with anyone who can hold their own against the Russian military is to employ tactical nuclear weapons, i.e. "if we can't win a war, then humanity doesn't deserve to live any longer". Considering that and the recent actions of your regime, don't act surprised when people in the free world look at your country as a threat, that has never had any respect for them to start with. Most people don't blame you as individuals, but your state. But when you start talking with people on a more individual basis, like here, and you defend your regime, then yeah, you're gonna piss a lot of folks off an incredible lot more than you just got by what Vilas wrote.

Would be a sure way to start WW3 considering Estonia is a NATO member.

What's wrong, nicking someone's country, or shooting at their soldiers when they refuse to commit treason?

So basically "you did one bad thing, so I can do a bad thing. But because I'm inherently a bad guy, my bad thing can be even more bad than yours".

Hey, remember that group of morons (not insulting any forum members, talking of public figures) who suggested Putin be awarded the Nobel Peace price a few months back? Yeah...

Shall I relink the picture of "disarmed" Berkut police with shotguns throwing Molotov cocktails (yes, police throwing Molotov cocktails. "Berkut, putting the "riot" in "riot police") at demonstrators as early as January-early February, just to make the point more clear about the deadly force employed by police from very early on?

Yes, not to mention this gem. And standby for "the usual suspects" to jump in and deny it ever being even slightly true in 3, 2, 1...

Oh please, explain to me exactly what is incorrect about what I wrote. That the USSR collaborated extensively with the Third Reich up until the very start of operation Barbarossa? Or the obvious hypocrisy of a state prosecuting its citizens for doing something that the very same state had done less than half a decade earlier on a hundred thousandfold larger extent? Ronin: You know, the funny thing is that that ballot actually allows the voter to vote for a status quo, something that the Crimean poll did not. That really says something about just how far Putin has gone.

And on exactly what moral grounds could the USSR, that had collaborated more with Nazi Germany than any other country on Earth, prosecute any of its citizens for collaborating with the Nazis?

The Sudeten Germans wanted to join Nazi Germany. The Gdansk Germans wanted to join Nazi Germany. Nice to see you using exactly the same arguments, in 2014.

Tonci: They did, but they (obviously) turned down the offer, as their presence there would only serve to legitimize a "referendum" that not even China acknowledges as legal.

Yeah, Putin was totally entitled to defend himself against the scary, evil Western democracy, human rights, international law, and borders recognized by his own country. The West is a lot better than Russia, because over here we have this thing called freedom of expression. Unlike in Russia, where the regime has control of all media, and out right closes down websites, papers and TV channels that express any criticism of the regime. So yeah, go live in Russia and then tell me they aren't worse than the West at freedom of expression. Lynx: You do realize that Kosovo actually was a country before it broke out? It was a country part of the Yugoslav Federation, with a full right to withdraw from it.

Beagle: Last time I checked, we don't need to go back to '56 to find an era in which the economic tumbscrews sat tight on the Soviet Empire. They did that up until its collapse, at a time when large corporations were already having their undue influence in politics. Luckily, they still don't completely dominate politics. Lynx: Huge difference, as always in your comparisons. Germany was supposed to have been reunified decades before it actually was, and Israel was created by the UN, because someone sort of realised it'd be a good thing not to let the last Jews be killed off, as they'd probably be unless left to defend themselves.

Nonsense. We could manage blocking them off for almost six decades, there's positively no reason for why the Western world, that has not even in invading Iraq done something as morally and legally despicable, should not be able to bring this new empire to its knees yet again. NATO was formed for a reason, and it was not to have its members be reliant on Russia for anything other than a reason to unite and arm themselves. If we only impose half of those sanctions that we did upon Iraq and Best Korea, we'll see just how long the Russians will be happy about the situation Putin has lead them into, or if they will start rioting in the streets of Moscow, again. Lynx: Are you seriously blind to the fact that the "we used to own that land, so tough tits, we're taking it back now" is an argument that throughout the 20th and 21st centuries have been used solely by National Socialist and Fascist states?

Personally, I find the leaning via TIR to be of low use and quality. Unless you up the sensitivity to what I personally feel would be very awkward levels, the LOS between the clip and the camera will be broken before you've reached the full extent of the leaning. And leaning that much itself, when sitting down, is extremely uncomfortable.

I don't think anyone, even the local Russians who are very keen to defend their dictator, can actually prove that even one criteria for a legal poll has been fulfilled. The only way to solve this, if Russia moves to support any of the two outcomes, is to impose as harsh economic sanctions and the like as we possibly can in the Western world upon them, and then they will crumble, like they did during the Soviet era. Things like expanding nuclear power in Europe would deal an extremely hard hitting blow to the Russian economy, seeing as how 1/5 of their export is made up of just exporting gas and oil.

I am mindblown by your complete, and utter lack of understanding of, well, words and their context.

Oh, really? There's not a Russian thug in every poll hall holding the voters at gunpoint? You've never heard of political caricatures and satire, or has Putin outlawed that too?

Amra: Oh really? It's Western propaganda you say? Then maybe you could be so kind as to tell us what isn't true? Are there not Russian occupiers, hiding their faces like thugs and bandit patrolling the streets? Are the voters not limited to voting for options that will only remove Crimea from Ukraine? No, those things are all true. You're just one to speak of propaganda, aren't you? How sad it is to see that after more than 60 years, there's yet again a fascist state in Europe, that has no qualms about showing the free world just how it looks when the hobnail jackboots of fascism are marching, trampling democracy, human rights and freedom. Also of interest: China chose not to veto the Security Council's criticism of the referendum.

Foreign troops occupying Crimea: Check Independent media turned off and replaced by Kremlin loyal propaganda channels: Check Thugs (Cossacks and Chetniks) from other countries brought in to beat down on pro-Ukrainians: Check Replaced all democratically elected politicians in opposition with un-elected pro-Russians: Check Violated the laws dictating how to make political decisions: Check Threatened and otherwise kept independent inspectors out: Check Yep, no wonder it looks the way it does. The irony is that the pro-Russian Crimeans have been so well duped, quite possibly by themselves, that they stand there blindly shouting "fascists", when it is they who are supporting the real fascism. The fascism that is going on in Crimea right now makes the fascists in Kiev look like a few grandmothers knitting mittens.

You're missing a huge, obvious point there: Crimea is not a state. It is an autonomous Ukrainian region, that is recognized by the West and East alike as being part of the sovereign nation of Ukraine. Comparing Ukraine with Yugoslavia does not hold up, as Ukraine is universally recognized as a single, sovereign nation, whereas Yugoslavia after WW2 was a federation of nations, and thus those nations could claim their right to self-determination during the '90s. Ukraine is not a federation in which Crimea is a nation that can claim self-determination, it is a single nation where Crimea is an autonomous region. Thus, Crimea would, apart from the obvious, such as actually holding a democratic referendum with no foreign nation occupying it, have to heed the Ukrainian constitution should it wish to secede.

Not really. The reason any of the suspected things could ever happen is due to incredible negligence at some points. For starters, turning off the radar transponder doesn't mean it disappears from radar, it only means its name and information goes away. The radar signature will still be there. And the transponder being turned off manually as is suspected means at least one of the following: Complete ignorance of post 9/11 safety precautions by the pilot and co-pilot, (as in don't let anyone into the cockpit, keep the cockpit locked, DON'T LET ANYONE INTO THE COCKPIT, KEEP THE DOOR LOCKED, DO YOU HEAR WHAT I'M TELLING YOU I SPEAK ENGLISH DO YOU SPEAK ENGLISH?) and/or the airliner company not making sure that the pilot and co-pilot weren't suicidal or unprofessional.

Well, no, they don't have a right to break out however they want. For starters there's international law, and then there's the Ukrainian constitution, that dictates that there must be a vote held regarding secession in the whole of Ukraine before something like that is permitted. There has never been a human right dictating that the people of a region are allowed to determine to which country said region belongs. In fact, having something like that would very much destabilize the world and make for a hell of a lot more wars, as these "covert" invasions and lightning speed referendums that we see now would effectively provide a giant leap hole for annexation.

I would also find it very easy to respect the outcome of a vote, after I've gotten to exclude options I don't like from it.

Go figure, it didn't even take a quarter of a century for the Russians to, after the collapse of the Soviet Empire, yet again become the world's #1 threat to democracy and freedom. And instead of pretending that they are trying to achieve a democratic utopia at a date TBA like the last time, this time they recognize what their leaders are doing, and they do it with pride.