BMFer
-
Content Count
23 -
Joined
-
Last visited
-
Medals
Posts posted by BMFer
-
-
No not really.There are plenty of videos showing 7.62 rounds totally exploding water melons but from the few videos I've seen of real people being hit by the 7.62 in the head the only indicator that they have been hit is the fact that they fall to the ground. Watermelons and human heads are made of different stuff. I'm guessing the biggest difference is the Skin and muscle on the face help prevent the head from exploding like water melon would.
A human head can and will explode somewhat like a watermelan when hit with a 7.62 but the differance is the skin of a human holds the peaces together alot better so even though the skull pops and the brain turns to mush the chunks of the head will still mostly hold themselfs together by hair and skin. Its not a pritty sight to see in RL but it is realistic and should be in A3.
-
No, it shows a temporary cavity of that size. The hole in the back of the ballistics gel would be .50 caliber in diameter, or slightly keyholed.Just like most of the tests conducted in the world to date.
I'm pretty sure .50 cal don't usually tumble within the human body. And what are we talking about here? The wounding ballistics of a .50 cal or a .50 call that hits all kind of other shit, then hits someone?
The .50 cal doesn't lose much velocity over distance.
I hope you didn't take what I was saying to mean that perforating someone wasn't serious... Because that's the proposition you seem to be arguing against. But, within the reasoning of your argument that hitting organs is dangerous, the same can be said for getting stabbed with a stick.
You don't hunt animals with fmj rounds :p Soft nosed lead bullets are probably what you're viewing.
Like I said before none of this stuff is new to the forums in the slightest.
That research is very old (1987) and in the studies they never used very high caliber bullets and it still sounded like they didnt take into account bones and various angles. Also this wound still looks pritty brutal even though its not .50 http://www.rkba.org/research/fackler/figure2.gif I would like to see some up to date studies with modern guns tested.
-
I have read that the damage a .50 bmg does to a human varies greatly with what it hits on its way through. Gunnery Sargeant Hathcock noted while sniping with a browning M2 that sometimes his targets would get up afterward and continue on and sometimes it would create terrible wounds. It's been a while but IIRC the difference was attributed to whether or not it hit bone or not.This forum has such discussions all the time and the information presented is never new. I would suggest searching the forums for old discussions if you are actually interested in this kind of ballistic behaviour.
Yes hitting a bone would be a major factor in the damage done by a round. When the hit occurs both the bone and the bullet would explode into fragments and tear threw whatever is left behind it causing extensive organ damage or taking off a arm or a leg.
So you've got nothing really going on for the first ten whatevers... centimeters or inches or whatever... then the bullet turns and you have a temporary cavity four whatevers in diameter, then the bullet exits. Doesn't look like anything special to me. Even if that is in inches, it's still not very impressive. And, if if is in inches then all that temporary cavitation is happening outside of the back of the average human body in the first place, meaning that such a cavity would never be formed. Maybe if you shot a fat guy, that bullet would cause some bruising to his back fat.The ballistics gel doesnt take into account organs and bones anything that fragments the bullet will cause more damage. Even with the ballistics gel example it shows you would have about a 2-3 inch exit wound in your back and I dont know about you but that doesnt sound like much fun to me.
-
This would make rifle butting and pistol whiping so epic.
-
Most will around the wound, especially at close range. Also the body produces almost immediate swelling so that added to the effect of body shot not producing a spray effect. A realistic would gluggs if you know what i mean.If your talking glugging as in what contained liquid does when poured out to fast yes I know what ya mean. :cool:
-
I have literally seen hundreds of people shot in the head, it doesnt always produce red mist - for example the infamous footage of General Nguyen Ngoc Loan executing a Vietcong suspect in Saigon, but large calibre rounds often produce red mist, for example the JFK assasination.Your right their are tons of variables that effect whether or not a gunshot wound will mist or spray the biggest being the caliber of the round. If it is a high powered round their wont be much of a head left such as the JFK Assassination:
The headshot happens at 19 seconds in. Very small caliber rounds can leave a tiny hole thats allmost unnoticable on impact but all bullet wounds will bleed after the hit. -
Why no pink mist? :pOk a little pink mist :cool: but it cant linger for so long and should be darker.
-
Ragdoll spillouts would be indeed priceless. Especially with boats and Motorcycles.Put Physx to good use!
-
A pool of blood is a cool idea. ACE have blood stained areas when you're injured, which can be used to trail people actually.I use COSLX for the same effect and some other nice blood and gore additions for ARMA 2.
---------- Post added at 13:57 ---------- Previous post was at 13:51 ----------
And please change and make more different blood decal :D!Variety is key to keeping immersion, the human mind is designed to pick out patterns and will notice and be annoyed by repetition. The best games are the ones with many possable outcomes to one situation.
---------- Post added at 14:01 ---------- Previous post was at 13:57 ----------
All the arguments I hear from people who are against gore basically translate to the idea that people who do want gore must surely fap like mad whenever a limb is blown off, or some of you might be afraid that you yourself will be associated with this stereotype.Others just dont want to watch the gore as it is too realistic. That's fine.
Imho if it gets implemented it should be made an option with a parental lock so everybody can choose for themselves or have their parents decide for them what they get to see while playing, however I want to get something off of my chest first.
Many people don't seem to think that gore adds anything, and I disagree.
It wholely depends on how gore is implemented.
There is the Soldier of Fortune kind of implementation which is greatly exaggerated and unrealistic. Almost every shotgun round to the stomach will lead to entrails hanging out of the stomach etc.
And then there is a proper implementation of gore, and the best example I have ever seen so far is Red Orchestra 2: Heroes of Stalingrad.
The game has it's issues gameplay-wise and doesnt know quite what to be and it tries to find a middleground between realism and a more action-oriented gameplay, but the presentation of the game itself is highly authentic (again, lets just ignore the MP40/II and MKB for a moment) and immersive.
That does not only mean mostly accurate uniforms and weapon functionality, but also includes the sound department (reverbing sound etc), and yes, gore.
Soldiers can lose limbs, their head from explosive rounds (AT rifle, artillery, tank shells, grenades).
When soldiers get shot they lose blood, leave trails, or bleed out on the spot, and leave bullet marks on the body.
Now all of that is coupled with the best death screams and moans I have ever heard. Some of them are so convincing they sent shivers down my spine.
The following result was that when people started playing for the first time, they were overwhelmed.
They were in it for the gameplay and got confronted with something else: the realisation of what they were actually doing. Shooting people.
The good feeling of managing a 'killing spree' was off-set by the moaning and crying of the dying.
A soldier who's leg got torn off by a grenade usually gets grins from most gamers, but in RO2 they cried so hard people just became quiet.
I actually saw ingame once a teammate shooting an enemy soldier through the throat. The man fell down and started gurgling with such sounds that the guy that shot him typed 'sorry for that' in chat.
He came to the conclusion that he was putting a simple human being, not some faceless minion of the evil overlord, through agony. He had wanted to kill him, but not like that.
I felt the same when I once bayonetted several guys in a short period of time. I felt good. Untill my last foe started crying for his mother.
And for a little while, the forum received much comments on how RO2 made them think about the war that is portrayed in the game, and the insane things these soldiers might have gone through.
It made people think and realise that war sucks, and that on each end of the rifle each soldier is the same.
Through the gore and how all these other elements came together RO2 managed to humanise the enemy, and make people think about war and what it actually means.
The game made players feel emotions about their actions.
And that is one hell of an accomplishment.
For an example of some of the death moans, have a look at this video:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=57mICfWeAVg&list=FLidK8L2e7Lde3JyAoW8NS4A&index=15&feature=plpp_video
The best examples are in my opinion at 0:35 (imagine a soldier that was shot through the throat), 2:03 (imagine a soldier that got a limb torn off), and 3:24 (as his life leaves him).
I realise that not everybody wants to be confronted by reality like that while playing a game.
But think of the good it might do if it confronts other people with this reality, especially kids of younger age who look at CoD and BF and think that these games are realistic (they are there. the fact that BF3's weapons aren't hitscan immediately raises the realism-bar completely for them).
I believe that games could do more to educate people, and can be more than just simple entertainment.
And as long as it is an option that you can turn on and off, you dont HAVE to be confronted with this at all.
But for those who wish it can then experience something more than just a game, and be completely immersed and be made to feel things.
This post was made in 2011 but has A LOT of good points.
-
This video shows an interesting way of handling injury and blood.Skip to about 35seconds and check out how blood and injury systems affect on charaters. In later videos, the charters when injured actually adjust their stance based on their injury. E.g, injured arms are carried closer to the body and the player is more hunched.
Overgrowth has some very cool technology and new ideas and I think when its complete alot of companys will be borrowing ideas from its engine. The blood system in OG is also very advanced, Blood actualy flows directly from the wound and drys over time and as Roy pointed out the injury animations are top notch and still improving.
-
That's really cool Minoza, your very fortunate to have such a talented friend.Back on topic what do you guys think of the bloodspray in this animation, too much blood or just the right amount?
The wound and the spray are both done well but that pink mist should be taken out. Also I noticed a little bit of brains/skull hit the pavement right below the soldiers head that was a nice extra and the only thing missing is a blood pool slowly starting to form after he drops.
-
Oh yea, so let's touch kids:eek:
-
So there's a chance?? This is news to me, good news! :)He confirmed it won't be in vanilla.Its in a developers best interest to cater to what the majority of the playerbase wants because in the end that gets them more money and gains more fans. ARMA 3 is not finished yet and as such is allways subject to change I wouldnt be that suprised if Bohemia Interactive sees that this is the largest most talked about subject at this time and adds it in themselves. The poll doesnt lie lots of people are looking forward to good realistic blood, wounding and gore effects.
-
Is this too much, too little or good enough for you? (Dunno what happened there, a bug probably)IMO RO1 system was better, you get better blood stains\dripping (If I had to choose from blood stains and dismemberment, i would go with blood..) and gore.
If we don´t get any type of dismemberment, what will happen when an IED\bomb explodes next to a soldier? Something like
? Thats idiotic.He dies, game over. Avoid high calibers\explosives next time ;)
The picture you posted of RO 2 isnt a bug its 2 russians that where hit with a airstrike and two dead germans that probably died soon after the airstrike was over. It is slightly bugged because the blood isnt showing like it should it would usualy look like this:
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576683235329349607/655D9575692D39D02F1A477CE4439E9F2C3C90BD/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576683685640100112/66787DBF6CA80CEC27C53F918AA6E4BC3531237F/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576683685606327534/2110011CBC0E2BB10879C064A6160FEAA573CA82/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576684312254166803/B56D47E6544ABF29A74C192D00C0293C96D91A6A/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576684312250843110/7E6ABE63D394414E4BDE602C7D5967E727015836/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576685179579227012/7C938A2213B65A7D8DBA24087F721A4605479014/ > 100KB
http://cloud.steampowered.com/ugc/576683235362965832/8FC70A2573AAD01956F893E7BF3FF0ED811EF6A2/ > 100KB
And I very much agree with the comment about avoiding high calibers and explosives it would be stupid to expect your soldiers to allways be revivable after somthing as terrible as a direct morter hit or a .50 cal headshot.
---------- Post added at 17:49 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ----------
^thisand the most valid point against gore/dismemberment:
How are you going to heal your buddy if he is blown to pieces?
Imagine MP with that. "Oh I magically reattached his leg" no thanks...
Stop saying this it makes no sense.
---------- Post added at 19:16 ---------- Previous post was at 17:49 ----------
it's not the discussion that get's to me, but the idiocy of some of the takers...it starts to look like CMs forums, wishing for the sake of it, even though the chances are nil.anyways, i'll just follow your otherwise sane advice
Why is it so strange to you that people are voting for a realistic feature in a simulation about combat? The ARMA series has allways been realistic and you realy shouldnt be getting so worked up about adding a feature that is a very real part of war and furthers the immersion and replay value of the game. Besides it would be a shame to let the physx they implemented sit in the background when it could be helping realistically portray wounds. Think about how cool it would be to have each blood drop, spray, splat and puddle be a actual physx generated entity creating almost unlimited variations in blood and gore effects.
-
!you're one but us more!If you dont wish use that, just disable in you settings, or dont visit servers where gore used!
Its a simple solution, Right Gentelmens?!
That it is sir! Features should never be cut because a small minority doesnt want it especialy when it can easily be a in game toggle.
-
With ARMA 3 using Physx fully distructable are a possability. I would love to see some work done to to small arm and ballistics environment damage modeling.
-
The real war has more brutality and sadism then ALL brutal/horor/sadism games together in world.Making ArmA3 as-real-as-it-gets will make happy the sadistic (or/and masochistic) lunatics of the world
while simultaneously can show the CoD like freaks(i.e.) a "photorealistic" day in a war.
So..
+1 to butcher's playground
--------------
Oh..i forgot!..
+1 to medic sim also..
This ^ and even though Fox 09 was against the idea I do like his medic sim proposal.
War games should allways have a well done damage and wounding system because guess what? War is not pritty you dont shoot somone and have sparks or rainbows fly out and when you point a gun at somone you damn well better be ready to deal with the consequences of pulling the trigger. When somone is shot in ARMA 3 it shouldnt look like they fell asleep it should look like it does in real life.
-
I have very high hopes from BI in the AI department I want to see soldiers actualy react to the bullet I just put past their ear and if that bullet didnt miss and splatters said soldiers head all over his buddy coming up behind him that soldier should be visibly shaken from what he just witnessed. The higher ranking the soldier the less effect horrific battle situations will have on him but if the soldier that just got brains in his mouth is a fresh recruit its likly he would just fall to the ground from shock and would need a fellow soldier or officer to coax him back into the fight.
-
I am running other mods, but none of them alters that. Only more units, maps, weapons changes. I am not running whole COSLX, but only some files, and with rifles such as the AWS 50, the M107, the KWSK I got that kind of freeze before the dismemberment. Which, by the way, occurs even with the NoGibs file.Sounds to me like a peace of your hardware isnt swaping the model fast enough to be unnoticable. When somone is gibbed it basicly just swaps out the model of a soldier with that of a torso and two legs along with particle effects and blood decals this could cause a slight delay while the new model is loaded. I would say try defraging your HD.
-
Just thought I would give this thread the bump it deserves. Nothing adds to a war games immersion as much as a good blood and gore system. Every bullet should make a impact on the game world and show that these are not somthing you want to get lodged in your chest or face. explosions should be able to tear people to shreds and high cal weapons should take off limbs and leave huge holes in people and buildings alike. ARMA 3 is allready using Physx and im sure physics simulated blood and gore would look excellent.
-
Focus on the blood and gore system and add proper wounding and bleeding effects. The SLX mod for ARMA 2 is a excellent example of well done combat and as I have allready seen mentioned another good example is Red Orchestra 2. The combat should show that war is a gritty thing and getting shot is no laughing matter. Keep ARMA a PC only series because anything that is able to run on the consoles has probably been severly cut back.
-
Hi Yokhanan,A few pages back there was a discussion about ASR and GL3 with SLX that was a good combination. For Ace SLX would have to be tweaked.
If you guys want when i get back with the latest updates some time this month, i could put together an ACE compatible version of SLX. Let me know what you think.
Also note I should have internet back in my own place in about a week or less :)
Good to hear that you will be getting internet back soon the COSLX mod is my favourite of all the ARMA 2 mods because it makes the battles feel so much more visceral and immersive. I would love to see a ACE compatible version because ACE has some very nice features. In your COSLX mod would it be possible to make helmets fly off and heads pop if hit with a .50 cal? Also the blood pools and spray could use a slight darkening because they show up fairly bright in game.
Ragdolls = In .... Realistic wounds ???
in ARMA 3 - GENERAL
Posted
Brutal clip but it shows exactly how much damage a bullet can do to the human head.
Well said. The poll clearly indicates the majority wants realistic wounding and gore so I find it funny when people say "Oh noes but what about the children!" and "Making it M or 18+ will drive people away" when the exact opposite is true.