PELHAM

Got to say that's nonsense. Base on the moon by 2020, in only 8 years? It will take that long just to get a shuttle replacement functional. Someone else once said something about a manned landing on Mars and had to be taken on one side and told the facts of life. Sad to see history repeating itself.

Interesting read! I agree, anarchy is preferable to that, but a free democracy is preferable to anarchy. The things the Communist block precipitated in Africa will haunt the world for generations. ---------- Post added at 10:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:52 AM ---------- It's one of the privileges of being a US citizen. If you are a citizen of another country you seem to be on your own if this happens. There are around 150 hostages in Somalia. Earlier this month they chopped the arm off a Vietnamese Captain in front of his crew and then ordered them to call their families to tell them what they had seen. The latest disturbing tactic to extort money from people. Others, such as a French woman taken from a holiday resort in Kenya, have died. Factbox: Foreigners kidnapped in Africa http://www.reuters.com/article/2012/01/25/us-somalia-hostages-africa-factbox-idUSTRE80O0WJ20120125

Excellent post Christopher Dodd: The Democrats usually count on a large slice of campaign money from Hollywood and associated industries. This is a threat directly targeted at President Obama. Quite disgusting behaviour and just shows how rotten things are in politics. If SOPA or PIPA pass I will never buy another Hollywood product. Boycott Hollywood not E3. It's not really difficult, most of what they produce these days is garbage anyway.

Addon Request: JPADS - Joint Precision Airdrop System The Joint Precision Airdrop System (JPADS) is an American military airdrop system which uses the GPS, steerable parachutes, and an onboard computer to steer loads to a designated point of impact on a drop zone. I thought this might be possible and a fun addon project for someone as we already have the right parachute system. Just needs GPS scripting etc. It looks very effective when multiple packages appear and fly in formation to the drop zone. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joint_P...Airdrop_System http://www.mmist.ca/pg_ProductsSherpaPadsOverview.php m6gWIuW3LBY Benefits JPADS offers several main benefits, including an increase in the number of available drop zones and an increase in the cargo's precision, which benefits the user. JPADS also increases the survivability of the delivery aircraft and its crew. JPADs can achieve the same or better accuracy from greater heights, allowing the aircraft to drop the load at a much higher, and usually safer, altitude. Standoff Delivery Because JPADS allows the aircraft to drop at high altitude (+15,000ft), the aircraft can actually drop the load a good distance away from the drop zone, which affords the aircrew to remain free of enemy threats which may be near the area where the load is being dropped. JPADS involves four increments, categorized by the weight of the cargo to be dropped: Increment I: JPADS-2K / applies to loads up to 2,200 lbs Increment II: JPADS-10K / applies to loads up to 10,000 lbs. Increment III: JPADS-30K / applies to loads up to 30,000 lbs. Increment IV: JPADS-60K / applies to loads up to 60,000 lbs.

I think you are a bit confused about what a spanking looks like Walker? This link you provided certainly isn't one, it looks more like a false flag? http://security.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/19/israel-and-u-s-keeping-it-casual/ It's a handshake not a spank? Chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff, Gen. Martin Dempsey, chats with his Israeli counterpart Benny Gantz. This is what a spanking looks like: U.S. considers closing its embassy in Syria as protests persist. (same website) http://edition.cnn.com/2012/01/20/world/meast/syria-unrest/index.html?hpt=hp_t2 Closing embassy = spanking.

They really don't have any evidence © of anything. All they can say is some IDF planes saw us and the next day some other IDF planes attacked us. From that they state that every IDF commander must have known their identity when that is obviously ridiculous. People who wander carelessly into war zones often end up getting killed unless they take proper precautions. They did nothing but carry on as normal, BBQs, fishing and getting a sun tan. They were not combat ready. When the 1st emergency of the air attack was over the lack of a coherent plan meant they opened fire on the IDF boats which then precipitated even more deaths. All I can see is a collection of officers who burned their careers sunbathing in a war zone and some junior ranks who are just repeating what the others have to say. Watch any of the interviews and they end up contradicting each other and most of the allegations made in this whole sorry conspiracy theory. Certain people in the military think they are in a niche where they will never get their hands dirty. They are always the ones that whinge the loudest when things go tit's up. Does anyone have anything concrete to add other than inuendo and circumstantial odds and ends. Any real proof at all? Please post it. ---------- Post added at 11:40 PM ---------- Previous post was at 11:37 PM ---------- What if you can't see the ship becuase it is on fire and is covered in smoke, this ship you are watching then sends an odd AA signal and opens fire? Have you read the information, looked at the time line and imagined the circumstances from each side?

MegaUpload is no more so your download links no longer work? http://www.washingtonpost.com/business/technology/megaupload-lawyer-qanda-on-doj-criminal-case/2012/01/20/gIQA3HJhDQ_story.html Hope you had them stored elsewhere - the lack of notice about this is very annoying for legitimate users storing files there.

I suggest you read back in this thread and look at the similarities between the Liberty and the Egyptian Navy's El Qusier. http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2091116&postcount=39 Flags are not easily seen with the naked eye from an aircraft a long distance away. Look at the picture link at the bottom of this post: http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=2091246&postcount=43 When the IDF boats returned fire the Liberty had been napalmed and was covered in smoke which further reduced visibility. @Dosenmais That video is missing most of the facts - Does not mention the Liberty opening fire on the IDF boats -Jamming - all the antennas were destroyed in the initial attack - they had to rig new ones which didn't work properly. -Unmarked aircraft - some of the crew saw markings -Recall of the carrier planes - concern over conflict with the USSR (detailed in the above links) -Captain of the Liberty did not change the readiness of the crew and did not prepare adequately for entering a war zone. Command failure. -The attack did not last many hours - it started at 2 pm and Israel contacted the US at 4pm the same day to inform them of the incident. USSR Spy Ship - That one is just made up, it never happened. ---------- Post added at 03:26 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ---------- Stange then that you don't recall the ship being on fire and the decks obscured by smoke?

Have you got that right Walker? "Israeli Defense Minister Ehud Barak issued a request to the Pentagon last month that the planned joint exercise be postponed, a U.S. official told Yahoo News Sunday." "To the various rumors circulating that the United States had instigated the delay, one U.S. official told Yahoo News Sunday: "b.s. It was Barak." (Ehud not Obama, easily confused) They are delaying it till Q3/4 of 2012.

David Icke????? You are aware he has problems, yes? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/David_Icke I was watching the Wogan show live (1991) when he suddenly decided to announce he was the son of god (head) and we were all victims of an alien conspiracy. Entertaining evenings viewing, it's not every day that someone goes mad on TV lol. Surprising that people find him at all credible. I see he isn't still swathed in the healing powers of turquoise - did that idea not work out - hopefully he isn't still hearing voices lol?

:D nah Flash Gordon got there in 1936

Remind me who was the 1st to take a dump in space? I really would like to know who got there 1st.

@ Eble Yes I know all about that. What you assume is that everyone in the Israeli military shares a single consciousness, the right hand knows what the left is doing and that their, control, command and communication is 100% efficient. That doesn't apply to anyone does it? Just because some IDF Navy planes identified the ship does not mean that every single ground and air commander knew about it. Ships move, shifts change, information gets lost, people working under pressure and little sleep don't think straight - it's known as fog of war. What is left out and continuously ignored is the reason why the jets and boats were sent out there in the 1st place. One of the ground commanders in Sinai thought he was being shelled from from a ship off shore and ordered it to be attacked. It is thought the source of the problem was an exploding Egyptian ammunition dump. Did he know all there was to know or was he focused on the ground campaign and his own problems? You also forget that the USSR was militarily involved in this and the reason the 6th fleet was kept back by the White House was because the Kremlin had been on the phone for the 1st time since the Cuban Missile crisis threatening WW3. The USSR actually triggered the 6 Day War. If you want to analyse this problem it's sometimes necessary to look at what else was happening. You then get to understand the timeline and why events happened as they did. This avoids jumping to the wrong conclusions. @Hellfire257 Ever tried leafing through a recognition handbook in a Mirage 3 cockpit in a combat zone? (PS Aircraft also see things from above) The IDF Navy PT boats might have had recognition books but they would have been of little use because the ship was on fire. It had been napalmed by the jets. The PT boats struggled to identify the ship and did not attack at the 1st opportunity because they weren't sure of the target. The PT boat attack was triggered by the Liberty opening fire. The Liberty crew admit that themselves - just watch the above video and read the the other information available. The Liberty Captain initially gave orders to open fire and then changed his mind. @both When analysing accidents and incidents (I do this professionally by the way) it's all to easy to sit in your quiet little office in front of a large screen. What you have to remember are human factors. Stress, noise, fatigue, distractions, illness, discomfort and a thousand other things that influence the way we think and behave. I still say this was an accident - everything I have seen points to it. If there was a cover up it was the mismanagement on the ship itself. Out of everyone involved they were the most relaxed and had the most time to think about their situation. Letting everyone sit around on deck sunbathing in the middle of a war zone wouldn't have been they way I would have commanded that day. They were obviously used to easy duty and were not prepared for the mission. If you look at the captains future career it's obvious that deep down the Navy felt the same way. He was shifted to commanding an ammunition carrier for a few years (not as prestigious as commanding a spy ship is it?) then ended up in charge of a NROTC on a college campus. A dry land command. Sure they gave him a medal of honour (we have seen this before) but they didn't trust his command abilities again did they?

Interesting video (full of holes and conflicting information tho) which actually lessens my interest in the USS Liberty and makes me wonder just what else was going on. In all of this I find it odd that the disposition of the forces of the Soviet Union is never mentioned by anyone. It's the one thing that no one talks about. Why is that? I think the answer is to look at the overall strategic situation in the Eastern Mediterranean. The whole US aim throughout the Cold War was to keep the USSR Black Sea fleet bottled up. The only way out of the Med was through the Straits of Gibraltar or the Suez Canal. The USSR was focused on obtaining control of the Suez Canal as Gibraltar was too far and too heavily defended. That is why they were so heavily involved with the surrounding Arab nations and the US had their stake in Israel. At the same time, and unknown to the Israelis, the Soviet Union mounted a disinformation campaign pushing Egypt to join Syria against Israel. The Soviets were providing military and economic aid to both Syria and Egypt. On May 13, 1967 a Soviet parliamentary delegation visited Cairo and informed the Egyptian leaders that Israel had concentrated eleven to thirteen brigades along the Syrian border in preparation for an assault within a few days, with the intention of overthrowing the revolutionary Syrian Government. This was a complete fabrication designed by the Soviets to destabilise the Middle East. Similar false information may have been given to Egypt by the Soviets as early as May 2. Some say the 6 Day War was precipitated by the USSR to gain control of the area. They even had plans to invade Israel and preliminary instructions were issued to commanders in the Eastern Mediterranean. Soviet photo-reconnaissance MiG-25s directly overflew the Dimona reactor in May 1967. The Liberty was stationed very near the Suez Canal and from the flat refusal by all the senior people interviewed to talk about Operation Cyanide I think what happened that day, possibly during the entire 6 day war was more to do with the US / USSR strategic goals than anything else. There was significant tension between the US and USSR and it is said the hotline between Moscow and Washington was activated for the 1st time since the Cuban Missile Crisis. I think if the USS liberty was deliberately attacked (I'm not satisfied this is true, Richard Block may have his translations muddled) it was to draw the US 6th fleet into the area and prevent any action or involvement by the USSR. The actions of McNamara and Johnson were focused on the USSR not Egypt or Israel. This is an interesting article: How Six Day war almost led to Armageddon New evidence of 1967 Soviet plan to invade Israel shows how close the world came to nuclear conflict http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2000/jun/10/israel1 ---------- Post added at 06:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:52 PM ---------- That is not at all beyond doubt, some of the Liberty crew report unmarked aircraft, others say they saw Israeli markings. All this talk of Flags is not really relevant because you can't see a flag from the distances involved in modern combat. Here is a picture of a US ship. If I were attacking it I would not want to be this close - can you see a flag? It is there but very small. How anyone is supposed to judge the identity of the vessel based on that tiny marking I don't know? http://www.hesslerhome.com/images/TomsNavyShips/1972-01-01%20USSRobisonDDG-12BESTPICTURE_3000x2400x144.jpg edit: If you read and watch the info online you will note that the Israeli pilots and boat commanders frequently debate the number on the bow of the ship. That is all they could see and initially they thought they had attacked a Soviet ship. No flag is ever mentioned, they couldn't see it.

Lol so you have not read the transcripts of radio recordings, declassified documents from the US and USSR and other things that reveal it was a simple case of mistaken identity? The US planes were recalled as the 1st wave were carrying nuclear weapons and it was deemed unwise to send them into combat, the 2nd wave were recalled as President Johnson got involved and assumed the USSR was the attacker and wanted to avoid a confrontation. Commanders at the scene were overuled by the white house and anyone well read in history knows this occurred regularly at the time. Below is a montage of the Egyptian El Quseir and USS Liberty. Can you tell which ship is El Quseir and which is USS Liberty? Remember you are either in a fast moving, high flying jet or a being thrown around in a torpedo boat, you have only seconds to act and you think it is an enemy ship that will shoot at you as soon as it is aware of your presence. When the boats attacked the Liberty was already on fire, covered with smoke and the Liberty crew opened fire on the Israeli PT boats 1st. That was a big mistake. I think the whole incident occurred because of a lack of thought and planning by the US leadership. They sailed into a war zone as if they were on some sort of pleasure cruise. At the time of the attack the captain of the liberty was sunbathing on the deck along with other officers. No additinal flags or identity markings were put on the decks, no additional lookouts were stationed, the crew were not on a war footing as they should have been. There was no planning or preperation. The day before the attack on the Liberty, Israeli aircraft had bombed an Israeli armored column south of the West Bank town of Jenin. Shit happens.

It can not in any way be described as a false flag operation. Firstly the Aircraft used were Dassault Mirages and Mysteries - the Arab Forces all used Soviet equipment so even if the aircraft were unmarked it would be obvious who carried out the attack. I doubt that the aircraft were unmarked, US servicemen were used to seeing brightly coloured US Navy Aircraft, Israel had more subtle camo because of the constant threat of air attack. Within an hour after confirming the identity of the ship from a life raft retreived from the sea, the Israelis sent 2 rescue helicopters to offer assistance, 2 patrol boats returned 90mins later to offer assisstance but their offer of help was rejected. Two hours after the attack the Israelis contacted the US to inform them of the incident and later the same day provided a helicopter to fly a US Naval Atache from Tel Aviv to the ship. How is this a false flag? With reference to the bombing in Iran you can be certain of nothing - it could be anyone. Iran has other neighbours that don't want it to become too powerful.

It's a joke son! PS that Yugoslavian space shuttle isn't real either (Top Gear UK). They allege that the Saturn 5 and Apollo command module were mainly manufactured in Yugoslavia whilst showing pictures of Soyuz rockets? It's yet more viral internet hoaxery and it's easily dismissed because it's obviously utter nonsense. Here is a picture of some technicians from the well known Yugoslav company Boeing working on Saturn 5 assembly: http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/apolloprogram/images/32961/boeing-techinicians-work-on-saturn-v-rocket.jpg Here is the Saturn 5 under construction at the Michoud Assembly Facility in New Orleans (Could be a suburb of Dubrovnic I'm not sure about that one): http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/apolloprogram/images/32964/46-acre-michoud-assembley-plant.jpg Command module construction at North American Aviations Downey Plant in California: http://www.flightglobal.com/airspace/media/apolloprogram/images/32956/shield-installation-preparation.jpg ---------- Post added at 08:22 PM ---------- Previous post was at 07:58 PM ---------- America also bought the Zambian Space Program! In this video Zambian Astronaughts can be seen in training and working on initial assembly of Saturn 5 parts purchased from Yugoslavia. M9Do3dz9TR0

The US gave around 250 samples of moon rock as gifts to many countries and heads of state, including many socialist nations. There was a close link between Tito and the west because we all fought on the same side during WW2 and he was portrayed as a hero in the western press. I think the close relationship started there and continued to lessen Soviet military influence in that part of Europe. I would speculate that the Yugoslavs may have given the US some scientific research papers that may or may not have been helpfull. The rest is probably nonsense. Convenient that 505 is nothing but rubble now isn't it?

Lol that's because Germany had it's own Vietnam in Russia. :D

Hmmmm docudrama? Operational Space program? Saturn 5 rockets and command modules built in Yugoslavia? Well it all makes sense to me. I guess that is why Yugoslavia is still the best in space technology today and are well known for it. New footage has emerged of a secret test of their space shuttle: Zfa-8ostNhM Yes typical of the Americans to rely on so many foreigners in their space program, it's well known that they did not have the manufacturing capability or any scientists of the right calibre. Looking on the internet I have found evidence that Neil Armstrong's real name is Nili Aremovic a former Major in the Yugoslav airforce. In contrast, the space program of the USSR was completely indigenous and did not include help from any captured german scientists or technical documents at all.

America had this isolationist policy once before - they were caught napping at the beginning of WW2. Lets hope the US does not repeat past mistakes.

Yes it works well.

A short History of Nearly Everything by Bill Bryson http://www.amazon.co.uk/Short-History-Nearly-Everything/dp/0552997048