instagoat

Hi. I just downloaded your mod, but can´t seem to get it to run. All folders have been moved to the Arma 2 folder per instructions. When I click the Invasion44.exe, I get an error box saying the following: Is my download corrupt? Am I missing some files? I have not applied the patch yet as the download seems to fail every time I try (Am in the process of figuring this out, it has to be related to my slow net.)

What the title says. Personally, I love Master of Orion 2. It´s probably the best sci-fi empires sim ever made, complete with trade, diplomacy, intrigue, research, planet-building, colonisation, ship-design, and turn-based war. Some other stuff I am quite fond of are games like Tyrian 2K. I am also a fan of TFX, which is an old Flightsim: the sim that introduced me to sims in fact. Without it, I may not have ended up with Arma. Then, obviously, the old command & conquer games, and their predecessor, father of all RTS´s, Dune 2. (That game, from a modern point of view, is just about as basic as it gets.) Shooter wise, I am currently trying to build up the will to continue with Blood. Doom has also been cleared now in germany, so I may get into that. What good old games are you still playing, occasionally?

Consoles aren´t dead. Both sony and microsoft are working on next gen gaming consoles to be released around 2013 - 14. What´s slowly going to die out is PC gaming. The people that were there at the apex of PC gaming are by now getting older, getting involved in job, family, and other, more interesting or rewarding hobbies. New people coming to PCs are either doing it because they need to for the job, or they´re a small group of tech savvy people who care about technology and being at the cutting edge. PC gaming is in trouble because it´s harder to get into PCs: people get lazy. Consoles are much easier than PC games, just pop the disc in and play. With PCs, you have to make sure you buy a good rig, make sure you know how to operate the OS, make sure you have drivers and peripherals set up correctly, know how to fix things if they don´t work, manage disc space and general setup (especially networking), install the game and then deal with possible hiccups there because of hardware/software conflicts or problems. Consoles are much easier to develop for too as far as I´m informed, because of standardized hardware and software kits. We PC gamers are a dying breed. Console gamers are not. (Edit: Actually the amount of PC gamers over the past ten years is probably, on average, pretty constant. Just in relation to people working with PCs and in relation to Console gamer numbers, it´s gotten smaller. Dedicated PC games with big player bases such as WOW or other upcoming A-games that are PC-only increase the numbers a little, but the market is still with the consoles.)

The codemasters forums, despite having tens of thousands of members, is pretty slow compared to this one. I checked it twice in the past three months, and in their shooter sections, nothing moved at all. Both DR and RR are effectively dead on their boards. If they are clever, they´ll indeed drop the name, but I actually don´t expect them to. At least on console platforms, I believe they value both games at least as mild successes compared to their other shooter, and they´re possibly intending to go in for a third attempt. I´d not put it beyond them to make bad decisions: they´ve shown themselves fully capable of humongous cockups before, and I doubt that´s changed magically in the past few months. Arma 2 and DR were taken, until DRs release, as competitors, because everyone expected (trough codies advertising) DR to be a milsim of similar calibre. Cue disappointments, no mod support, and everything else there was, and disappointment ensued for most. And I do realize I´ve created another potential bash thread. I was just hoping it wouldn´t, you know, spin completely out of control and blow up in a mushroom of fire and rage. Like Tonci said, a little competition is always motivating, even though as far as communities go, theirs doesn´t hold up anymore at all. Let´s hope BI keeps up their A game until the release of Arma 3, so that ours actually continues to grow with its arrival. That´d be rad, more new people. A little more awareness of the milsim genre trough existence of more titles can´t hurt, though. My two cents.

Making a good lean system or cover system without resorting to cheats is impossible, as far as I´m concerned. There´s no intuitive way to do it, and it´s best to leave it out altogether if it can´t be done right, at least for the cover system. I don´t know -any- game that has a cover system that I could get along with. Some work okay (Mass Effect comes to mind), but are extremely object dependent and glitchy, others are complete trainwrecks (ie Bodycount), but none are what I´d call fluid or intuitive. Everything is done with shortcuts, cheats or ducttape. I wouldn´t be surprised if we don´t see change in this for Arma 3, over Arma 2, and really? I think it´s not that big of a deal. There are much more crucial fields that need to be worked on, such as improving the AI, making all the features work smoothly, make a good campaign (Which the Arma series has been lacking since OFP:R), make good SP and especially MP scenarios for the base game, work on a way to ease players in, and provide documentation for the modding and mission design tools. Once the basics are down, we can focus on details such as cover systems, detailed weapons operation, etc, etc.

I just realized something, and I thought I´d share it with you, maybe get some opinions from the community on it and spark some discussion. First a little preface: Of my 9 friends who are into computer gaming, I made 7 get arma. Some I got into A2Free, some tried the demo, some immediately bought it without looking into it, taking my word on how awesome it is. Of those 7, 1 is willing to continue to play the game with me. All others, within a month of getting the game, ditched it again. This puts me into something of an awkward position, especially since it was hard for me to undestand why they didn´t like the game. I am aware of its shortcomings, and I think everyone is, which is why I won´t mention them again here except where necessary. What I want to focus on is the following: I think Arma, excluding CWA, is not a game. It is a hobby. Between a computer game and an oldfashioned hobby, there are some major differences. My perception of what each may or may not be might conflict with other people´s perceptions, so if you disagree, feel free to slap me later. A computer game is a product which delivers a pointed, cohesive, well thought out and most of all focused gameplay, usually a narrative to drag the gameplay along with, and extra content such as DLC, adding more story and gameplay elements. As an example, I´ll use Battlezone. Battlezone is a 3D action/RTS hybrid from the late 90s, based on an arcade game from the 80s. You drive your tank around, build a base, harvest resources, build Units and attack the enemy base. Combat can either be fought in first person, or using an overhead map. You get a handful of units, a harvester, and a few specialised buildings, and a long, multi-mission campaign with an involving storyline. Arma, on the other hand, delivers in the current iteration, four Campaigns, dozens of SP and MP scenarios which sometimes are a bungled, half-finished mess (I´m looking at you, harvest red). It delivers not a few units, but hundreds of them, along with hundreds of weapons, vehicles and a dozen maps. Gameplay wise, Arma tries to be an FPS, a tactical shooter, an RTS, an RPG, a wildlife simulator, a driving sim, a tank and air combat sim, and while it´s at it, giving any person with the will and time the option of turning it into pretty much everything short of simulating a whole universe. It tries to be everything: there is no focus... In that way, Arma can safely be described not as a game, but as a toybox, supplied for participation in a kind of wargaming/programming hobby. Hobbies are different from games. Gaming can be a hobby, but a hobby can´t be a game. Arma, like most hobbies, takes time to get into: There is so much to explore and learn that most attention spans of our time don´t last: they didn´t for my friends. They got frustrated with the game throwing so much stuff at them, while not really explaining any of it to them, that they gave up and went back to actual entertainment. What is entertaining in Arma is not playing it: the game fights you way too much for that (Clunky controls, cluttered command interface, counter-intuitive gameplay compared to most FPS which train gamers of today to die in Arma, basically. Too much stuff to use, and no tutorials on how to use it well, as well as a generally terribly steep learning curve. No feedback on wether you´re doing well, or wether you´re doing the correct thing at all, etc.), what is entertaining in Arma is watching the "game" do its thing: building things, and then watching them start moving on the battlefield. Like an extremely complex and hard to get into lego set. Trouble is, when gamers buy a game, they don´t expect to get a toybox without instructions, focusing on a hobby with limited appeal in the long run, they expect to get an -entertainment product-. They´re working all day or are in school all day, (and especially the mature gamers Arma is targeted at) possibly have to deal with a family and friends, and don´t want to invest hours upon hours learning something before they can have fun. There are rare occasions, but as far as I can see, they are rare. Like I said, though this is by no means a definite cross section of the market, obviously, of 7 people I brought to Arma, 1 so far has stayed. Hope I´m not threading on anybody´s toes with this, just thinking a little about why people are so put off by a game I do so love (even though it´s hard, sometimes. I have a strained relationship with Arma by now.) And I really hope that Arma 3 will be enough of a game to be fun from the get go, and not a box set of virtual toy soldiers that don´t do anything, unless you put lots of work into it. Cheerio Insta

It´d be nice if the AI commanders stopped giving "attack" orders altogether. No sane commander would send his squad out to attack the enemy piecemeal. Not even stupid commanders would do that. That´d be a great change.

For the opinions, it´s true. As far as military experience goes, many here probably don´t have any, me included. I think I wouldn´t have been cut out for a soldier, though I think it might have helped me get certain parts of my life in line. But you can still form informed opinions about something, even if you weren´t part of something: having insight from people actually within the things you talk about helps a lot though. It is probably too much to say that -everyone- in the military is trained to be this way. People are also very different from each other, and everyone will be moved and affected slightly differently by what they are taught in basic and advanced training, and by what they experience when actually on duty or deployed. But that doesn´t change that fact that (as I believe) it takes a certain kind of person to inflict deadly violence on other people, especially when coming face to face with them as infantrymen do in the urban scenarios our western militaries have experienced in the past ten years.

New animations won´t fix a clunky system. Other games are miles ahead of Arma in this department, and though I´ve been skeptical about the value of this before, I´m slowly getting more and more aware of how important a good, solid, fluid body-control feel is for the game. I hope BI has an ace up their sleeve in this regard.

Why does "milsim" need to equate to having a "Outdated, cluttered, overloaded, redundant interface"? There is a difference between necessary complexity and plain clumsy design. You need a lot of buttons to simulate a complex radar system on a modern jetfighter. You shouldn´t need a lot of buttons to simulate something as intuitive as shouting a command. Real life commanders don´t spend 15 seconds navigating ten different menues to tell their subordinates what they want them to do. This is also a question of sustaining the game and the community, as far as I´m concerned. Compared to OFP or the high time of Armed Assault, the Arma 2 community is pretty much asleep. Not dead, but asleep. Where there once were multiple dozens of fansites, there´s now maybe six or so big ones left. Of those, probably all are of OFP or Arma 1 vintage. Yet despite being so old and eminent, many of them appear to have rather low traffic on their forums, for example. I may be unobservant, but I sense that there could be a lot more going on if the game would just stop scaring people away by being silly. As I stated, the game, with my friends, lost a potential five players because of design flaws. Those range from lack of tutorials, lack of clear directions in missions, lack of intuitive control system for managing gear of yourself AND your squadmates, overly complex and -badly- explained command interface, on top of having been buggy as hell back when they bought the game (this was in Arma 2 days, prior to OA. Only one of them bought OA and PMC.). Add to that the lack of advertising and publicity, and lack of something resembling competitive multiplayer, and suddenly you´re loosing a whole lot of people. Some of whom, if they could´ve been bothered to put up with the frustration of learning the ropes, would surely have been valuable additions to the community. It´s not a matter of dumbing the game down, it´s a matter of redesigning what it´s got to the point where you can actually pick it up, learn, enjoy learning and then play, without the years of experience I for one have, being an OFP veteran. Most people don´t have the time for this, and even if they have, most of them likely don´t appreciate NOT having fun for a relatively long while, before reaching the point where playing the game actually becomes fun. my two cents.

War has changed, though. It´s slowly warping as more and more business sees opportunity in the field. We´ve seen the rise of the military industrial complexes both in east and west, proxy wars troughout the century, and now we´ve arrived at the point where we actually are beginning to privatize armies. If you look at how basic training, bootcamp looks in the US, it is no surprise to see people like this W person. They are honest, they don´t train soldiers to be nice and help build kindergartens, they train soldiers to most effectively destroy other human beings. It is the same for -every- standing army in the world, just that everybody has different excuses for implementing such training programs. Some are big on propaganda, king and country, others promise adventure, but in the end -all- militaries, freedom fighters and terrorist armies are the same. Ultimately, the attitude is a means to the end. Clausewitz said that war is the continuation of politics by different means. A soldier is a political tool, ultimately, and this tool is designed to destroy the oppositions means to resist whatever policy is supposed to be implemented. Every soldier that wants to come out of combat with a "healthy mind" needs a certain attitude to protect themselves from what they´re faced with. War being already sick in itself, results in people building sick attitudes to cope. And if you believe what basic trainers in most militaries say, then there´s a potential killer in all of us. It only needs training, indoctrination and a little bit of twisted psychology to bring him out. This is one of the reasons why I sometimes feel bad playing pretend soldier in a video game. I´m never sure wether what we´re doing is without value, is war worship, or a criticism of sorts.

I hope so. Otherwise, the new reload animations will look as silly as they do in the E3 trailer (where they show a reload of an EBR, with the correct hand movements, but the magazine just teleports in and out, so the hands are actually empty). Which would be a shame, because the new reloading animations already look beautiful.

Very clear thoughts. And it makes sense too: War is the most extreme situation a human being can find themselves in, and unless you´re "made" for it (ie, sociopathic, violent and cold), it -will- break you. I am not sure on the statistics of the guy (with the 20% of people getting PTSD), but I would still love to see characters like -this- be portrayed in a game like Arma. Instead of the hero types. War for wars sake, and all that. As for PMCs being criminal scum, I think that´s not really correct. They may in many cases be sociopaths, but actual soldiers are no different. A guy that was part of a collaborative writing community I was part of once joined the USMC solely for the reason to get to inflict some real violence on people. Not for country or flag, he simply wanted to go and shoot at people, be a Marine. War is an unfortunate part of the human condition, and as long as there are people who believe that they need to impose their world view upon others, there will be violence. As far as games go: I would love to see a more gritty, realistic, non-propagandistic and -honest- take on what combat is like. No heroes, no princesses in castles, no politics or world-moving stories, just soldiers on the task of the day, trying to get each other trough, and do some damage while being at it. I hope Arma 3 will come closer to that than any other game before, with the main character not being a knight in shining armour, but a darker, more brutal personality. Along with his buddies.

The AI can do the following, in vanilla: Use leapfrogging when in combat. They cover each other upon movement, they seek out and actively use cover. They lean around corners, will sometimes use the interiors of buildings to get at the enemy. There is a rudimentary suppression mechanic: AI machinegunners will lay down suppressive fire at enemy positions on their own accord. Depending on the weapon it carries, AI behaves slightly differently according to the devs (though this is, in my opinion, hardly noticeable.). AI can by now use roads when travelling in convoys of up to four vehicles. Helicopters can spend longer than 30 seconds in combat without crashing into trees, but rarely last longer than five to eight minutes before digging themselves into the dirt. Attack planes are immensely dangerous to vehicles, as they rarely crash. AI can identify killzones and will attempt to avoid them if possible. There is a rudimentary morale system: if morale drops too low from suppressive fire and/or casualties, AI will attempt to withdraw (though the leader will continue sending individual or couples of his underlings to their deaths even while withdrawing.) AI commanders still command their subordinates to do individual or two-man charges at the enemy. AI still prefers running around to shooting. This is especially noticeable in such units as snipers and AT gunners, which rarely ever fire their weapons in combat due to being too busy with jogging to and fro. Without Mods, AI -won´t- do the following: Arm themselves from bodies to face new threats, such as helicopters and tanks. They will not reliably use buildings for cover. They also will not use ammo stored in their own or teammate´s backpacks, and will only get new ammo when they are depleted if told so by a unit commander. That´s a short summary of what the AI, right now, can or cannot do.

O Pony I am paying close attention to this, yes. Can never have enough toys for my box-o-toys. Keep it up!

If this were added as a completely optional realism option in the difficulty menu, I would enjoy this. I imagine it to be sort of satisfying to manually cycle the action on your rifle after a well placed shot. Ka-chinnk-klick-klick

Yeah, it -was- a pretty weak joke :( But, in all seriousness, adding pack animals or remote controlled pack systems (like that robotic mule thingy.) would add another nifty set of tools to armas already immense repertoire. I am just unsure how to feasibly implement these, without invoking the "Horse Automaton" trope. (http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/Main/AutomatonHorses)

As someone who loves animals, I have to admit I´d be a rivetcounter in this regard. If we get packing animals, the following should be modelled: Proper feeding and hydration, stamina and weight management, indirect commands and leading the animals, hoof care, dental care, grooming as well as a realistic emotional model (So the mule kicks you dead when you surprise it from behind). That would be all. ( :3 )

As demonstrated by the very cool M4 package, made by Hogthar and Mlacix, to be found here: http://www.armaholic.com/page.php?id=16248 Demo pic here: I liked the solution to creating a 3D weapons sight so much that I thought it might be worth posting here. It´s really easy: it´s just a normal scope, with the appropriate zoom. (Other games who do this kind of thing are, for example, Modern Warfare, and Dragon Rising... uuuh.... as far as games go, those may not be the best examples, but you get the idea) Despite this being a pretty low-tech solution, I find it better than the reticules we have right now. Worth adding? Yes or no, I hope to see some discussion in the appropriate thread.

This sounds like a sensible suggestion to me. It would make the whole reloading thing more involved, and more interesting. And as long as it´s kept down to a single button, it won´t clutter the keyboard layout. Does this also mean we get nice animations to go with the manual cycling of the action? :> (Even though you´re not asking in official capacity, I´d thought I´d poke for this...)

Better question is, will you -like- this game. Arma is an entirely different experience, so far, than other games. It´s tough to get into. It´s more of a hobby than a game of itself. It´s a journey. Best start with CWA and go from there ;D If you can deal with the original, you can deal with anything. And if you like the original, you will like everything that comes after. That´s the way its been for me, at least. I was 14 when I got into OFP, back when it was released, so age isn´t a factor here.

Just thinking. Plan this well BI, especially if you do podcasts or something. Things like that run into the ground quickly, unless everything´s set up straight from the start. Example is the dead Tutorials for OFP RR, which didn´t even get past one video. Not to compare you with codies, but I´d rather have you do a little less, but really good.

Wow, massive response! I didn´t expect this, it´s so great to hear there´s others who still dabble in the old games. :D One thing I´m trying to get into are RPGs right now, playing Skyrim. I have a couple of old Silmarillion RPGs somewhere at my other place, Ishtar 2 and 3. These are really classical first-person, party based RPGs. Does anybody remember Rebel Assault or Creature Shock?

Bohemia Interactive´s Seattle Studios, just down the road from Larkin Aviation. Easter Egg! Let´s find all of them!

Fffff BI I just bought TOH and now you´re already coming up with addons. You want me to throw all my money at you, don´t you. Don´t you. Seriously though, I like this. Depending on wether or not I like TOH, this may be an insta-buy.