Tonci87

Am I the only one who imagines some people here standing with their fingers in their ears singing lalala whenever someone mentions that the rebels themselves bragged about shooting down another plane when the civilian passenger liner was shot down? Oh and BTW, FACT

What is that video supposed to show us? Yeah that is a SU-25 ground attacker. Those will be flying low by definition. The transport planes Ukraine lost were surely flying at a much higher altitude. Remember how the Russians claimed that the civilian airliner was shot down by one of those slow and low flying bricks? And how some people here actually bought into that crap?

It is actually very common for commercial airlines to stick to their fuel efficient routes, even if there is war down below. Usually the conflicting parties are not in the possession of heavy AA, and if they are, they are not stupid enough to use it against everything in the sky. An assumption, that misfired very catastrophically in this instance... But yeah, as much as some people in here are trying to absolve Russia and the Separatists from any guilt, the fact remains that the rebels themselves have bragged about downing a plane at the time the airliner was shot down. And they did that with a Buk that was most likely supplied by Russia. Remember, that just a month or so before that the rebels had serious problems because they were constantly attacked by Ukrainian planes? And voila, suddenly the rebels were in possession of very capable anti air equipment and the Ukrainians started to loose planes... Wonder where they found that equipment.....

I think there was also a lot of panic reaction on the rebel and russian side after they realized what they had done. The unit needed to be removed from the area as fast as possible, simply burning it in a field would still have left evidence, and also a coloumn of smoke is noticable in its own rigth. And we still can´t be sure that it was a Rebel crew that operated the vehicle. Going by the fact that you need some advanced training to operate such a vehicle, it seems possible that the operators where "on vacation".

Did you ignore the post that described that the rebels bragged about downing a plane online, and then deleted the posts when they realised what they had done? Sure, psychopatic soldiers is much more convenient as an explanation than "Russia fucked up by giving the rebels such a system in the first place, maybe even with russian soldiers."

Very interesting

What you describe simply doesn´t work. If indeed every floor was mined, then you would have seen the results of those explosions, for example glass breaking.

Can you imagine this? "Fly slower, I have to count the floors, we have to hit the correct one..." Let´s not even go into the possibility that if you plant explosives where a plane will hit, you can never be sure that the explosives are still in the intended place (most likely not) after the plane has hit. That whole theory is just stupid.

Just to make this clear, I´m not a member of the Steel Beasts community, I do not own the game, I have basically almost zero interest in the game. I still thought, you coming to this forum, to bitch about another forum, was pretty annoying. I´d much rather just see information about the game itself in this thread.

The goal of that group was fairly simple. They just needed to keep it secret long enough until they were aboard the planes. That is a fairly short ammount of time. Furthermore that group acted within the moral values of their souroundings. They and the people around them didn´t percive their actions as something bad. The situation would be different if that conspiracy was true. The people behind it would live within a society that would percive their actions as inherently evil. It becomes much harder to keep a secret in such an environment.

You can really say a lot about Germany, but they at least own up to their own horrible past and don´t try to justify or change it. (The same can´t be said about Japan for example, another looser of WW2) The Victors of WW2 on the other hand, and I´m including all three big players in this, but especially Russia, because in some ways Stalin was more of a monster than Hitler, are really prone to making themselves look better than they were. That is sad.

Conspiracies don´t work! Something of that scale, with literally dozens or hundreds of people involved, can not remain a secret for very long. Why? because humans are not good at keeping secrets. And the more people you involve, the more likely it is that someone will make a mistake. If what you claim is indeed true, then such an operation has to be planned by smart people. Smart people would have to know that they would get cought sooner or later. Therefore smart people wouldn´t do it in the first place. It is too risky. Remeber the conspiracy that Obama wasn´t born in America? Well guess what, Trumps speaker admitted that Trump doesn´t believe that any more, and yet, you had stupid idiots screaming for years that Obama was not born in the US and citing supposed "evidence" that was made up by other stupid idiots. You have the same problem with this conspiracy. You tell me you informed yourself about facts. Well let me guess, the websites that informed you of those facts are the ones that spread that conspiracy in the first place. There is a problem with rabbit holes. When you stick your head in too far, all you see is darkness.

You mean appart from two large airliners flying into the thing and their burning fuel turning the inside into a furnace?

Still bullshit, the Europena scientific institute that published that articel has as much credibility as a dog..... Have a look at the partners page http://eujournal.org/index.php/esj/pages/view/partners Not a single credible source.... All those institutions on there are basically meaningless but have fancy names. Check the background before posting stuff like that.

And that is stupid, period. The people have trapped themselves into a two party system and now can´t get out any more.

To me it just shows that the general american population is mindblowingingly stupid. They don´t have to vote for either candidate...

That area was always known for a lot of neo nazis and symphatizers, wasn´t it?

The US always had to classify the Kurdish militias as terror organisations because that is what Turkey demands of you if they are gonna let you use their military bases.... And of course, some Kurdish militias have been involved in actual terror attacks. Mostly limited to blowing up police or soldiers though

Not to mention that the Kurds have been supressed by the Otoman Empire and the Turks for a very long time.... Add to that that Erdogan had a real chance to forge a real bond between the Turk and the Kurds in a fight against ISIS, instead of that he decided to support the IS and use his military against the Kurds. If you ask me, the Turks deserve what they get (well, not all Turks, mostly Erdogan).

This game is awesome! Does anybody else play it? http://store.steampowered.com/app/275290/ (watch the steam Trailer) It is a very realistic real time strategy battlefield simulator set on the eastern front during WW2 (although other scenarios are available too). When I say Battlefield simulator I mean it exactly like that. The troops under your command can range from a few squads to a full division, battles can get quite massive with all sorts of weapon systems involved. This game was originally released in 2011 by the Ukrainian developer Graviteam as Achtung Panzer Operation Star. The game had some serious bugs and Graviteam also had trouble with the Publisher. They lost the license to their own game and were no longer allowed to work on it, the publisher also did nothing to fix the issues. Despite this Graviteam continued to release "unofficial" patches for their game and recently they were able to get their own game back in their hands. Updates with new features are still beeing developed for it and the next campaign "Mius front" will bring quite a few very nice looking features into the game. The maps are very large (over 260km²) and detailed, modeled after topographic maps and photos of that time. Over 60 Units of the Wehrmacht/SS and the Soviet union are available. The game is a RTS/Turn based Strategy Hybrid. Turns happen in three parts. First you move your platoons in position on the 2D Operational Map, where you manage your platoons, their supplies and plan attacks, your enemy does the same. If one side attacks the game switches to the 3D battlefield where you and the enemy first deploy your troops during the Deployment and Initial Orders phase, and then battle it out in a real time fight. A very nice feature: You shape the battlefield during the fights. Houses that are blown up, trenches dug (yes terrain will be deformed by digging, explosions, tank tracks), tanks destroyed, all stays on the battlefield and carries on into the next turns and battles. If a village has been fought over multiple times it will look like a really shitty place after a while. The Weather is dynamic and can change during battles. Your tanks that were quite happily advancing over flat gras terrain might be stuck in mud just a few hours later. Speaking of time, time progresses during the operation and so you will have to deal with day and nighttime fighting, wich brings its own unique challenges (like not beeing able to see shit until all of a sudden all hell breaks loose and flares and tracer fire illuminate the night). The attention to detail is amazing, I was quite pleasantly surprised when a immobilised Tiger 1 fired off proximity grenade launchers to get rid of infantry that was sneaking up on it, a feature I didn´t see in any other game. You control squads and idividual vehicles, not individual soldiers. Orders are passed down through the command chain and won´t be executed until they reach the unit. Telephone and cable squads are available, they lay down wire cables between command posts to speed up the communication. Every soldier has his own basic parameters such as experience, morale and fatigue that determine how effective he will be. Every weapon has realistic ballistics and penetration abilities and every vehicle has realistic armor values. AT weapons might not always be able to outright destroy a tank, but immobilizing it might be just as valuable because it takes a few hours to repair it. This game is HARD and confusing at times, the learning curve is quite steep. It certainly isn´t a game for everybody so you may want to give the free Demo a shot before you decide to purchase (although I don´t know how up to date that is). The game itself doesn´t tell you that much on how to play so you will have to look at some tutorials on youtube. The additional campaigns that are available mostly focus on other eastern front battles, however there is also one about the 1969 Soviet-Chinese Border incident at Zhalanashkol, one set in 1979 during a fictional Soviet-Iranian war in Afghanistan, and one set in 1988 Angola. The Steam price is quite expensive (I was able to get everything with 85% off during the summer sale, so less than 30€ in total) but you may be able to find it cheaper elsewhere. It´s simply the most realistic WW2 RTS I ever played and a whole lot of fun once you understand what you are doing.

Tell us what that moment was for you :)

Well, you see, I live in Germany, we have many Turkish people here, and naturally I know a lot of them, and work with some. They are pretty divided. Some (funnily enough those who watch mostly Turkish media) really like Erdogan and think basically the same you decribe there. Other hate him with a passion. It is a pretty good picture of the very fragmented Turkish society. By the way, Erdogan is planing to make the military and secret service swear loyalty to him directly, not to the Turkish state..... I think I know where this is going.....

Speechless...... a 92 years old priest? Well, there certainly is only one martyr in this story....