Whiskey Tango

I have no desire to see any form of COD/CS style of knife attacks in ARMA2. Tapping a key for an instant knife slash is in no way real and would indeed retract from the overall uberness that is arma. But a properly implemented bayonet that say, must be attached to your rifle before assaulting a posistion with an appropiate animation that takes several seconds to complete, so no instant out of nowhere attacks unless you made the conscious effort to attach to bayonet in the first place. Has an effect on your long range accuracy so that you don't have it attached permanantly but just for those times when you get very close to the enemy and a bayonet is needed ie clearing trenches, bunkers etc. And lastly a very limited range of say 1 metre max, so you physically have to be right on top of your target to perform the action which would need to be fired off similar to shooting. The reason why you won't use any tear gas etc is because were not talking about counter terrorism team stuff here but frontline infantry stuff where the situation arises mid battle when coming across say a bunker with a .50 HMG and it needs to be neutralised very quickly. Not really got the time to be wandering off to the quartermaster and asking for specialist kit like tear gas. you use the standard things you use on the battlefield, ie your 556 assault rifle, fragmentation grenades and lastly the bayonet to finish off anyone unlucky enough to survive what you've thrown at them already. plus the QMS would tell you to fuck off if you wandered up asking for such pieces of equipment, squaddies don't get anywhere near shit like that unless your part of some counter terrorism special forces mob. Some of the things you posted are infact going to be implemented with the arrival of operation arrowhead namely working FLIR better AI but also OA is going to force people into close situations in the city map. there won't be the chance to engage everything at range as the tight twisting streets limit the range/visibilty on offer. some others are tbh very low priority like vehicle interiors or are totally unworkable like hand signals. the situational awarness in any game is limited but to be able to pick up hand signals from the squad leader is going to be near impossible without your close to 180 degree field of view, your vastly superior graphics and your subconscious abilty to read and interpret human movement that you have in real life and holding the send key on TS/vent is far less time consuming and ofcourse bug free game wise. breaching charges would be nice and are used to great effect for gaining access to compounds etc without mooching through the main gate which is likely to be covered and or boobytrapped. Sharks with lazer attached to their head. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bQ88I1V_v5k And to all those who find the movement clunky :o: learn how to play with the game and go with the flow, adapt and overcome. Seriously it's not that hard and I quite enjoy the movement of arma and have learned to use it even with it's limitations. I'm not a pilot type and I find that piloting is awkward and clunky and very hard to use but then again I don't bleat about it in threads where people are asking for stuff to help pilots enjoy their game more and which would make very little difference to how I played. If it's something that helps more people to enjoy the game then bring it on.

A fantastic couple of mission tonight with the non VCB guys. I hope you all enjoyed the mission and I for one was mightly impressed by the ease in which you guys slipped into the sections. Hoofin! (cheers red:P) Thanks to everyone who attended

TBH I dont give a shit how freud would analyse this or any other argument and it would probably involve immense amounts of bullshit and nonsense. And nowhere do we stipulate that every battle is fought using only CQB tactics and if the target happens to be in an extensivly wide open area then other tactics are utilised to complete the objectives. But if theres cover out there between me and my target and it's enough to get me to my target, then it will be utilised because common sense dictates that cover between me and my enemy means some degree of protection from being spotted/fired upon untill I'm ready to initiate contact with the enemy and make him react to me, and if that takes the form of a long range firefight then so be it but to be blunt a long range firefight is a tactic I'd use very little because it does'nt complete objectives. You can't take a hill from 500m away or patrol a town without being in the town. If you don't occupy the ground the enemy holds how on earth do you expect to push him out of it. A war of attrition result in massive casualties on both sides. Your lots of missions not involving CQB may be very varied but your crappy long range shooting tactics are'nt. Infact their not tactics at all but a singular tactic. One. Less than two. Not even worthy of the extra S. And you don't know why people like to fight close combat because YOU can't think out of your box. Your long range firefight box of yawn. You just stick to those open area's of the map and ignore the rest while we utilise the whole map for our missions and use a wide range of tactics to accomplish said missions exactly because we don't get stuck in one mindset. And finally bayonets don't fade away.You will fade away before the bayonet does. In this world of multi million dollar/pound/euro pieces of equipment, the very cheap to manufacture, easy to maintain, use and effective bayonet will be around untill a better alternative is made available, but seeing as it as knife on the end of a gun then I would'nt hold my breath.

Just a couple of hours to go before the kick off of the VCB open night. Come and take part in a platoon attack british style.

I just love the posts that say that Arma 2 has no CQB. Really? I'm afraid to say it does have CQB and by the bucket load, so much CQB that you could build a mountain from it and have sir Ranulph Feines climb it for charity. Fighting in urban terrain by it's very nature will put you into close proximity to the enemy. If the enemy are occupying any of those buildings in the urban terrain then you going to have to get really close to shift them from those buildings. Fighting in heavy woodland/forested area's again will generally push you closer together as your visibility and range has been greatly reduced by the fact there are trees in the way. Add in some well placed bunkers and earthen fighting positions manned by the enemy, then your going to have to get really, really close. That does'nt leave much terrain left to fight in if these area's are avoided and might aswell fight everything on Utes. Close Quarter Battle drills don't involve any form of bunnyhopping rambo knife throat slitting shit but rather engaging the enemy with smallarms, grenade and bayonet at close range.

Thanks for the links this is going to be a great help to all us noobie map makers.

No! Were all 14 year old schoolgirls with no military experience other than one of the girls 2nd cousin is in the RLC and tells us everything we need to know. Oh and we all read Andy McFlab books and watch ultimate force with ross kemp (our hero). And volcbat stands for "virgins of logistic corps bellends and tools."

Lol repeating movie quotes is teh fun:) I would'nt bother coming to the VCB open day if you don't like movie quotes as you'd find it childish and leave, but anyone else including the RBC guys who are coming better have plenty of aliens, predator,commando and even the odd jaws quotes ready (but mostly aliens ;) ) and we'll want to see liberal uses of said quotes at any opportunity. I'll have to give your server a try but you sound on the same level of madness as all us at VCB so then it will probaby be a good laugh :) I'll drop in sometime before the 1st sep and say hello to you all.

You've gotta get away from the whole special forces thing. This is'nt a SF sim it's a milsim and therefore caters to all branches of the military. SAS, GSG9 and other special forces units don't use tanks or aircraft but there ingame. If it was a special forces sim then your gaming experience would be 90%+ sitting in an OP and observing the enemy and very little action. This idea that the SAS swan around looking for bad guys to kill is a bit ultimate force and their not likely to be attacking enemy held posistions as part of an advance on the frontline. Bravo 20 were'nt in the desert to blow up bridges and kill iraqi generals with long range sniper shots or attack iraqi bunkers for vital intel, they were there to put in an OP and watch the main supply route for enemy troop/equipment movements and then later for mobile scud launchers which they would try and call in an airstrike on. CQB is a part of the game if you use CQB as part of your gaming experience. You may not but many others do and were asking for the tools we need to do it. With the new expansion coming soon with its big urban map and an emphasis on CQB then those who don't do any sort of upclose combat are going to have to either start using CQB drills in their gaming experience or ignore the big urban map and carry on with longrange firefights and miss out on a great map for fighting over. A2 is a giant sandbox game and has no need to be played one way. Several people have posted examples of modern usage of the bayonet if you read back the way, from British army in Basra and US marines in Fallujah to royal marines in Afghanistan. Over exaggeration on their importance. Tell that to the guys clearing compounds in Helmand province. http://forums.bistudio.com/showpost.php?p=1403874&postcount=54 To be blunt you and all the other naysayers in this thread have said nothing more than "I don't play that way" or "the game is'nt suited to CQB" as your arguments against it and some uninformed attempts to say that "bayonets are'nt used by the modern military powers." We'll have this discussion again when everyones played on Op Arrowhead's urban map and see if CQB drills and equipment are needed then when forced to go toe to toe with the Takistani's.

Jaac I noticed that the stock A2 hummers do the same thing. When the tyres are destroyed the vehicle sits lower but as soon as the vehicle is fully destroyed and on fire it seems to raise up on it's suspension. So it's not just yours mate.

Nice one plumose :) I get mine all the way up to choosing it on the editor screen and it CTD on me when i try to load it.:( Ahh well more to learn it seems heh nice one mate keep up the hard work

LOL try reading harder. What would 1 man be doing with an oppo? And you need to check your facts it seems. Your 8 man section storms buildings as an 8 man section does it? no it does'nt you mong, not even all your 4 man fireteam does, what with having support weapons and such.^^ What sort of section commander risks everyones life to clear a posistion when 2 or 3 man can do the same job? And no where do I mention clearing on your own "bound up by section or fireteam" is'nt alone. "your going to be the firstman" indicates that theres going to be others behind you, hence "first" and you've been watching to much ultimate force if you think you enter covering angles, sweeping the building and waiting to react to enemy fire. So you enter an enemy held room waving your weapon around like your pissing up a wall? shut up you give the room a healthy dose of lead before going anywhere near it, you don't sweep it like your part of rainbow 6 and you've got civilians in there you can't shoot. Theres enemy combatants in there and the first enemy in there is gonna nail you to the wall the moment you step through the door, sweeping angles and looking like a tosser. If your following lead into the room then anyone in there is going to have their head down and you do spray fire anywhere likely to be concealing/harbouring enemy combatants. Duh! then any thats hiding there get shot and not shoot you. But ofcourse they would have told you that when doing your fibua stuff not bayonet training that consisted of getting you pissed off, giving you a bayonet and you getting to stab some sandbags with pigs guts in them. All very bloody, gory and good fun to let that aggression out. That training you did there was more about aggression control than anything else and stabbing sandbags. Storming enemy posistions or fighting in built up area's has nothing to do with the bayonet training you did except on how to thrust the bayonet into the enemy. I'm not talking about searching houses for weapons of mass destruction or suspected insurgent leaders mums, but enemy held posistions in the middle of a firefight, where speed and aggression are whats called for so don't tell me you don't do it that way because thats the way you do it and thats the way I was trained to do it. So maybe you should check your CQB facts.^^ It may have been 17 years since I did stuff like that but it can't have changed that much.

I'm having trouble with buldozer and A2 do I need A1 to use it or can I use A2? when I try and run it from Visitor 3 I get the message no entry @bin\config.cpp.CfgVoiceTypes followed by Shaders not valid (mismatch of exe and data?) I changed V3 to call for buldozer using A2 "C:\Program Files\Bohemia Interactive\ArmA 2\arma2.exe" -window -buldozer -addons=p:\V3addons.txt" Sorry if this is a mong question but I'm new anything creative like this :D and even the simplest tasks are quite taxing for me :P

class Stage1 { // normal map texture="MB_Tarrafal\Data\cr_trava1_detail_nopx.pa a"; <-- Change this for different textures uvSource="tex"; class uvTransform { aside[] = {10,0,0}; up[] = {0,10,0}; dir[] = {0,0,10}; pos[] = {0,0,0}; }; }; the paa bit is written with a space .pa a; maybe? just a wild guess looking at the code you posted I'm still way behind in the map maker learning process :)

Thanks plumose :) your a star with that help I'm now at the stage of trying to get textures to show up :)

No not really. Imagine this. Your section/fireteam has bounded up to the enemy held house using classic fire and manouvre drills to within spitting distance of the house entrance. You're going to be the first man in after the grenade goes off so you switch to fully automatic fire. Grenade goes into the room. BANG! You then burst into the room like the devil himself and spray anything and everything with automatic fire including any bodies on the floor for good measure, you don't stop untill you empty everything you've got into any likely enemy locations. CLICK! At that moment with a dry mag around you lie 6 bodies, 3 died to the initial grenade, 2 have died to your automatic gunfire but one is now getting up as eveything has missed him and he still breathes and still carries an AK47 and he's swinging it around to point at you. Do you... A. Stop! And go through the whole changing mag routine? B. Stop! let go of assault rifle and reach for pistol? C. Hope your oppo can walk through you like a ghost and carry on the fight while you do A or B or that he can maybe shoot around you without hitting you? D. Don't stop and just run the bad guy through the chest with the bayonet attached to the end of your rifle with a nice twist or two and then pulled out, rinse and repeat? E. F. and G etc etc all result in your death in horrible gruesome ways... It's a proven tool used for hundreds of years too do this job and do it well. If your going to clear houses/bunkers/trenches in this game and not just ignore or bypass them because it's not your style of fighting, then a tool like a bayonet is going to be extremly beneficial in completing it without dying to that one guy who survived grenade and gunfire. No not really. Your not going to have a half k firefight and maybe ROE forbids the use of artillery near civilian populace or maybe it's tasked elsewhere along with aircover, etc you not always got the assest to use at all times so your going to again fire and manouvre towards the enemy keeping him supressed as you bound up by section/fireteam untill you close with the enemy then your going to assault him and with combinations of shooting, stabbing, kicking dispatch and/or rout the enemy and take and hold the posistion then it's time for reorg, ammo cas check. And ingame watching artillery blast everything to shit while you watch is a bit shit as TBH you and everyone else wants to be in amongst the action. Maybe if you never get closer to the enemy than distances measured in hundreds of metres bayonets are'nt needed. But just because we don't use weapon x in our style of play that we would'nt see it implemented into the game for those who would, aslong as it met the criteria of actually being used by modern armed forces and it's not as if were asking for a death ray here it's just a bayonet.

You are troll! Hear you bore! No one mentioned claymore weilding scotsmen in ww2 and it has nothing to do with bayonets or even combat knives. Now your argument has failed your trying to put words in our mouths. Whatever your agenda is. Troll must be one of the bullet points. Most armies dont use bayonets has boiled down too one. "The german army" This comes from their vast military experience they've harnessed over the last 60 odd years is it? they been in many wars then since the last big world one? Do you know I have the sneaking suspicion that the allies probably made some provision where the german army are'nt allowed them by german law. "Oh, i don't need a bayonet to play agressive. I didn't miss it in R6, GR, OFP or ArmA. Key to survival in all these games is situational awareness and eliminating a threat as quickly as possible, and it has been found that firearms are best suited for producing quick and definite results." Well done you who does'nt need a bayonet to play aggresive. Lets all bow to your way of thinking shall we? And play the way you do? You milsim god and all are but sheep unto thine glory and omnipotent wisdom. No lets not. And the key to survive in this game is not to die. "Situational awareness and eliminating threats as quickly as possible.and it has been found that firearms are best suited for producing quick and definite results." Right thanks for the tips, a bit wide ranging there though are'nt they? Not every situation demands that you engage any and all threats to you. Elminate many T90's with 556 do you? Or bring down aircraft with grenades? No, you use the right tool for the right job and if you don't have the right tools then mostly you don't engage the enemy in that particular situation because you can't actually eliminate it or it's going to have a high casualty rate. A bayonet is the right tool for the job of clearing trenches or compounds/buildings alongside grenades and smallarms. Pistol/rifle rounds and grenades are finite and won't always be ready for instant use where as a bayonet does'nt need any ammunition and won't jam if it's dirty or badly maintained or need any more maintenance than a wipe every now and then. Does'nt require anymore than a fraction of a second to use and is very effective in dispatching the enemy at close quarters. Great advice there mate! totally missing the point though eh? If your close enough to pick up the enemies weapons it means your likely to be in close quarter combat with the enemy but yet again it's not about being out of totally ammuntion and having to pick up enemy weapons it's about not stopping untill the enemy is dead using every means you have in making it safe enough for you to have time to reorg and reload weapons or make ready grenades for the next assault or to be able to go into a defensive posture. And what happens if theres no dead men to pick weapons up from? If your longrange firefight that comes to nothing other than expending ammunition because your 4 man fireteam is 500 metre's from the enemy you just withdraw and call it quits do you? Thats not fun tbh.

Yeah if you have a dry weapon and no bayonet vs someone with a weapon and bayonet then your screwed and no you can't knock it out of the way with your plastic M4 unless your very lucky. The way you thrust a bayonet into a man's body has been developed since the jacobite rebellion and is very effective. A bayonet thrust is'nt easy to deflect especially if your concentrating on not getting garroted. This is a several hundred year old technique for killing people at close range. If you take the wrong weapon and get stuck by a pig sticker without having your own then next time you take your own or take that risk and go for your pistol but remember drawing a pistol takes an age if someones pushing a blade of a 4ft spear into you and thats the point. Their aint no billy the kid pistol draw to save your ass, it's more than likely got a bit of velcro inbetween you and it and that bayonet thrust takes a fraction of a second. Bleating that you have no defence against it in a game with no defence against being shot or grenaded, bombed, shelled, mortared other than not being shot or blown up is ridiculous and thats the point of having it. There is no defence to getting a big bit of sharp metal and internal organs in such close proximity other than not getting stabbed. Glib comment about pointy sticks not being realistic when serveral times previously in this thread "real" "modern" examples have been shown is also ridiculous and shows that your really not grasping anything other than the shite that floats between your ears. And many other armies do use the bayonet. Try an internet search and find out which ones still issue them to troops wether or not they can use them is down the thier own training nco's. In the U.S. Marine Corps, trainees at the Marine Corps Recruit Depot in San Diego for instance get their first instruction in using the bayonet as a lethal weapon on their 10th day. The essence of bayonet fighting as taught in the Corps is to spring forward from a modified crouch and thrust the blade into the enemy. Recruits are taught to slash an enemy diagonally from shoulder to hipbone and how to use a bayonet to push aside an enemy's weapon. The modern sawback U.S. M9 bayonet, officially adopted in 1984, is issued with a special sheath designed to double as a wire cutter As of 2002, the U.S. Marine Corps is also issuing small quantities of new bayonets of a different design from the M9, with an 8-inch Bowie knife-style blade.A sharper point and serrations near the handle help penetrate body armor that many modern adversaries wear. In one demonstration, a prototype was able to pierce a punching bag covered with aircraft aluminium and a ballistic vest. Also, the handle is more oval than round to prevent repetitive-stress injuries during training. United States Army Basic Training Operating Instructions Rifle Bayonet Training 1. Reference: Basic Combat Training Program of Instruction (BCT POI) 21-114, Annex W. 2. Schedule Rifle Bayonet (RB) training as close as possible to each other to maximize retention of skills and reinforce proper techniques. 3. Schedule RB 1,2,3 on the same day (or conduct RBT 3 with RBT 4 Pugil). a. Ensure that all soldiers have an M16A2 with bayonet stud and that all bayonets are serviceable with a scabbard. b. Ensure that demonstrators are in the same uniform as the soldiers and that the instructor has a speaker system; remaining drill sergeants will be in campaign hat. Demonstrators will rehearse their presentation. RBT 1 will begin with reading of a Medal of Honor citation. c. Phase instruction so that the soldiers are able to progressively master more complex RB skills. and lots more about the US militaries use of bayonets if you really want? but ofcourse you have the internet and can do some research of your own instead of talking shit for talking shits sake.

The same fantasy world that you inhabit with your "I've yet to encounter a mission in which I've ran out of ammunition" or "it has'nt got a fluid gameplay like game x so I don't do it" as a reason we should'nt have what we ask for. (I think he was after more than boo hoo I can't play that way, tbh ;) ) A constructive, cohesive arguement along the lines of "No, we use the US miltary style to clear out enemy strongpoints and don't use the bayonet in the style UK forces do, and therefore have no need of a bayonet/knife. Etc. (funnily enough thats the first decent arguement against knives/bayonets yet posted.) We "do" play with the awkward system and want a bayonet to help us utilise the system and play it our way and again, it's not about being out of ammunition as explained several times before if you would bother to read it. The self important statements are indeed important when walts say, "don't bring a knife to a gun fight." What gives you the idea we want to run around being rambo and taking on armies armed with just a knife and is again totally missing the point. I'm going to bring a gun to the gun fight and a grenade and a bayonet too and if they survive the grenade and the gun then I'm gonna stab them with the bayonet. Get it? "in rl I don't clear buildings with cut and thrust weapons" Well if your gonna make a statement like that in a thread where I know for fact that several of us have been trained to use cut and thrust weapons along with grenades and assault rifles too help in clearing a building or bunker in RL, then your just putting your foot in your mouth because we have first hand experience of doing it ourselves and to be honest you sound like a walt or a badly trained weekend warrior walt with your "I dont clear buildings with knives." but you were probably the second guy through the embassy window, right? And your veiled insult "if one has fun weilding a pretend knife/bayonet, so be it." in a game of pretend everything is funny and if we got our pretend bayonet then we'd be really happy. Come up with something a bit more constructive than "I dont do it" as an arguement against it and with some valid reasons why and then we might take you seriously, but I would'nt hold my breath.

IRL you do not clear buildings with anything because you are not in the military. And in real life thats how you clear buildings/bunkers/trenches with a combination of granades, automatic fire and bayonet. You however, for who CQB is practically non existant in ArmA,should'nt bother giving your crappy uninformed opinions then because(see various other posts inhabited by similary informed armchair know it all mongs and the response they got). Go and troll some other topic for you know nothing about the subject you are trolling in this particular topic. Walts! More dangerous than unexploded ordnance.

Whats with this running out of ammo nonsense people keep talking about? It's not about being completely out of ammo and thats your only option, it's about being toe to toe with the enemy and being able to deal with the him at close range even with 10 full mags for the assault rifle you are carrying. You can't follow a grenade into a room, spray it with a mag on full auto and then reload a new mag to finish off that one guy thats survived all the shit you've already put into that room. It's all about not stopping untill everything that is an enemy in the room is dead. If you stop your probably going to die. Grenade, thrown in with the intent to kill everyone in there. Bang! Rush in and spray the room with automatic fire with the intent to kill anyone who survived the grenade and then bayonet anyone unfortunate to survive the 2 previous acts of violence. Shout "clear!" when everyone is the room is dead. Then you can reload your rifle and have a nice fresh mag in for clearing the next room or whatever task is next on your list. You have plenty of rounds left but it's about not stopping and doing some mong task like changing a mag when someones going to be pointing a weapon in your direction at a distance of 3 feet, as it's not a firefight it's a room clearence. You can't clear a building with 5.56 from 200/100/50 metres especially if it has no windows and means your going to have to clear it by going close quarters with the enemy room by room. And I'll reiterate once again. Just because you don't go close quarters with the enemy does'nt mean everyone else should play like you and also wimp out of getting up close and personal with the enemy. Those of us who do go with CQB drills in our missions want a bayonet to help us complete the tasks such as room and trench clearences.

Yeah daniel, 500m acog battles is yawn factor 5. But then again it takes skill to get close enough to the enemy to engage them at such close quarters as bayonet range ;) Hopefully the devs have the foresight to see the game in any other light than long range acog m4 sniper shit and give us the tools we need to fight the game in our own style of toe to toe contacts.

:eek: Oh joy! now your just teasing us you addon tease slut :) :desert splurge

Everyones welcome to apply, why not check out the VCB squad page here on the forums, theres even a couple of vids to watch and lots of info about the VCB setup and how to join etc. http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=75660

Take note of this post, this man talks sense and must be heeded and is why we want bayonets.