topeira

i do not agree with smeg head that much. yes, the AI in FEAR was more believeable than smart and u, smeg, said that arma is harder cuz of the AI. i think u r wrong. as SECOND said - in arma u die in 3 or 5 hits. no health packs either. another point is that the map in ARMA is open so AIs can shoot from afar and with their ability to see through vegetation and u get attacked by more AIs at the same time. in FEAR u get attacked by 4-7 enemies. ARMA - more. if the same cover-nodes system was used in ARMA than the AI would be better at finding cover and flanking you and making better choices around nodes, but this system is limiting and the devs will need to place thousands of cover nodes on the map. its impossible. and they will miss too many covers that way. FC2's AI was as believable as FEAR's but they "spreading" tactics and flanking maneuvers where really really efficient. again - best AI IMO is stalkers - i dont think they use cover nods and they do everything they're supposed to better than any other AI. they cant go prone but still. i was flanked , sneaked behind and out maneuvered more times by that AI than in any other game. and i am the first guy to say "that AI looks like he's takking cover and flanking but its just a coinsidence that this object is hiding him and the flanking maneuvre is just a path finding mistake gone well.". the AI by GSC really is good. and i still praise GTAIV's AI cuz they are really independent and THAT is a proof of a solid AI. i have a mod that i can press a button and 10 enemy AIs will spawn in a group 200 meters away. if i go there they will know, without map specific scripts, how to flank me, how to advance to me, how to find their path through anything and how to take cover behind anything bigger than a large turtle.

thanks wolle. i posted the same content there so feel free to lock this one without hurting my feelings :)

hi there. moderators - i couldnt find an "editing forums" so i posted here. if this thread should be moved than so be it. i have no clue where to put it. sorry :P to the point: im very new to ARMA and the editor and i want to start by trying something and cant seem to understand how. i've read some manuals on the editor and i dont think i understood what was written there so i ask. i am using the FFN mod and sometimes the ACE mod as well. FYI for the sake of the thread lets use these terms: FU = friendly units EU = enemy units WP = waypoints TR = triggers i want to create a simple mission, just for starters. mission A) a village filled with EU and i need to clean them all (all infantry) mission B) a battle between many EU and FU that clash on a certain ground but most of the FU are not under my command. they are on their own. (all infantry) concerning mission A: i know how to place EU and FU and the player. i know how to place a trigger that says that once opfor is not present i get end1 so the mission ends. i know how to link units to one character so it's the leader. i know that i can place WP but im not sure what to do with them and what they mean, even though i read about them in some online manuals (like wiki). so, my main issue is that even though i know how to populate a village with EU that will attack me if they see me i have this problem where the AI units do not actively search for me once im spotted by one of them. they just stay where they spawned, most of the time. sometimes they go to unexpected locations. just sometimes. the almost never really try and hunt me or my FU down. i guess i need to set behavior via WP for the EU so they do that but i dont know how or what type of WP. can i assign WP on myself, the player? should i? what's the difference between search&destroy and just destroy? there's a lot i dont know about how to make the AI search after me and my FU once one of us has been made out. i need some guidance... :) about mission B: again, i think i need to know more about WP to make the EU and FU engage one another until all are dead. how do i make a large number of EU to try and clear a certain area from all my FU and visa versa? thanks for any help.

a good AI is an AI that does what humans would do WITHOUT a human scripting them to do so. if u need to tell the AI (via the editor or the ingame command system) what to do so they take care of themselves than THEY ARE NOT SMART!! with a good AI i can just throw some AI in the editor, spawn myself near them and have the enemeis work together, flank and find cover well. in GTAIV (one of the mods) i could spawn enemies and a a terrific battle will commence - they would take cover, spread out, take vehicles to chase me etc. all this without me ever telling them where to find cover, what vehicles to take or where to go. THAT'S good AI.

SECOND, the AI in vietcong and crysis is a scripted one, almost like COD, which is not a real AI. its just a bunch of cover nods that the AI navigate between. in crysis u HAD to place cover nodes so the AI would know where to hide. the AI on itself doesnt know what cover is and what an obstacle is if u dont tell it. that is not a top tier AI. jsut like in any linear shooter like FEAR, GOW, BIA:HH or MOH:A (yes, moh:a had a very limited AI that used cover nodes and spawn points. it was a lot of fun but was very scripted. very). STALKER had a slow gameplay but isnt it more realistic and more what ppl here in arma2 forums expect? the AI moved slow but had the uncanning ability to flank, take cover and find cover. while i dont know the under-the-hood details of its AI and level design i think that no cover nodes where placed in STALKER's maps just like there are no cover nodes in GTAIV. these 2 examples are of AIs that use cover cuz they know how to recognize it on their own. FC2 doesnt have cover nodes cuz no one takes cover. they just circle around the player, but they have other good things going for them. the problem with ARMA (with FFN or without) is that they dont know how to recognize cover. good, they know how to go around a building but the dont know where they can stand in order to be obscured by an object and the sure dont know how to recognize the edge of cover so they can lean or step out\in and shoot. ppl who think the AI in arma know how to find cover probably dont know what they saw. it was just their imagination making them think things that didnt happen. mind u, i am very new to arma (about 3 weeks of playing it) but i know what i see and what i dont see, and i dont see the AI taking cover. they just walk around crouched. if they are hidden than lucky them. put AIs in a forest and u'll see them running like chickens and lying in the open all the time. to make a good AI requires a very very talented programmers and i dont think BIS has them otherwise we would have seen some sparks of good AIs in arma. i am counting on OFP2: DR to have a decent AI (the press previews where saying it was good) but we'll have to wait and see if that's true.

i've seen some impressive AIs in games. examples - GRAW (PC) 1 - the AI was really good at finding cover, diving for cover, leaning in and out of cover, supressing the player. i loved them. they were very un-appreciated. GTA IV - i bet no one thought that game will come in this category but in some PC mods where i could spawn enemy AIs u could easily see that their path finding was amazing - almost any place i would go to in that dense urban environment they find me. the cover system in GTA IV is impressive since its systematic and the most surprising this is that the AI has the incerdible ability to find cover behind ANYTHING. FarCry 2 - AI doesnt know how to find cover but path finding is really good and they react realistically to sound and sight. u can trick them the same way you can trick real humans by breaking line of sight, using silenced weapons, flanking them. they are also really good at flanking the player. they toss nades. they are pretty good. STALKER - wonderful AI. also knew how to take cover very well and straf in and out of cover. they knew how to track the player. flank the player. they even knew how to sneak up behind him quitly and attacking only when really close behind. one of the best AIs i can remeber. period. ******************************************************** one of the things that make me enjoy a game the most is the AI. if it's good but not god-like, if it's human-like than it's fun. i expect OFPDR to have good AI (this is a big selling point for CM so i hope they deliver) but ARMA was a flop at that department. a very very big flop. its was embarrassing. i really hope that armaII's AI will be good at finding cover and flanking. the rest is something i can live without (bounding and collaborating groups, for example). I will probably wait for more previews, reviews and user's 1st hand opinions to hear about the AI since it's a deal breaker to me. if anyone has lonks to vids that show decent AI behavior, please - link me up. i'd like to see the current state of progress. also if u know of previews that talk about the AI, link me too. im too new here to know and read of all the previews that were posted that veteran members know by heart. also going through every preview looking for info i want to read about might be a time waste... EDIT: ok, it seems like they are discussing the AI here but i cant speak that language. i wonder if someone can translate or at least explain (in english) the main points discussed here): http://n-joy.cz/video/arma-2-tiscali-gc-video-2/Ggxr7ID211nO3nYQ

so are there any vids that show off the AI well enough? the "features" list in the AMRA2 website are bragging about cm precision of the AI in how they find cover compared to a meter precision in ARMA1 but the AI in ARMA1 didnt find cover. not in a meter precision and not in a KM precision.

1) i am using 1.14 so mine should be -mod=@ACE;@FFN but i dont use ACE at the moment. until i feel i got FFN to work as i think it should. what does the order of appearance in the shortcut has to do with the mods functionality? does it matter, or are u just telling me this to be on the safe side? 2) and from looking at the default files it seems like my got a few extras - saralite.pbo.bi.bisign. saralite.pbo , hotfix.pbo.bi.bisign, hotfix.pbo, cti_buildings.pbo.bi.bisign , cti_buildings.pbo, usmcd.pbo.bi.bisign, usmcd.pbo, warfare.pbo.bi.bisign, warfare.pbo. should i do something with these files or maybe they are just files added at a later patch than the one used to write wiki? 3) what is the key folder? what are the files i should have in it?

well , im sorry but i didnt encounter any AI taking cover and they dont seem anything interesting or good to me. all they do when engaged is occasionally lie down and often crouch, sidestep left and right a bit and fire at me. the vids on youtube by tonyranger made it look like the AI will look for the player and hunt him down. i must say that playing one of the original FFN missions (first one when u r in a village and there are 20 hostiles around u and an officer that u need to kill) the AI seemed good in the sense that they looked for me. when i create editor missions and just throw AIs in it seems like if the AI dont see eachother than they wont try and look for eachother not to mention they do nothing like in this clip: i dont know. maybe im still doing something wrong. my shortcut looks like this: E:\games\ArmA\arma.exe -nosplash -mod=@FFN (i disabled ACE to see if it has any affect on the mod) maybe i have unneseccary file in the \ArmA\AddOns folder but i doubt it. i dont know how to check if i do or dont though :( should i have the Extended_Eventhandlers.pbo and Extended_Eventhandlers.pbo.SLX_XEH2.bisign file there (in the main addons)? i dont have any TR files there and naturally no ACE files since ACE installed intesf to the @ACE filder....

1) say, manzilla - the reaction time of the AI seems slow. the look at me but in many cases the dont open fire or it takes them really long to open fire. is there a reason for that ? also, is there a way to speed their reaction time? i set the AI bar to the highest. doesnt help. the AI still reacts pretty slowly. and it isnt a really good shot either though if they DID react as fast as i do than i wouldnt mind they are not THAT good of a shot. since they react so slowly (or not at all) than they are too easy, i think. 2)also, what is the "super AI" in the difficulty settings?

im gonna keep playing and testing. i think i have everything working. manzilla, u have been a great help and i appreciate it a lot. thanks for the patience. :)

1) what file is that? do u mean that if i use the TR_FFN_MP_REPLACEMENT.pbo file and put it in the @FFN\addons folder (alongside the Extended_Eventhandlers and the TR_OBJ.pbo files) than i dont need to add anything to the init files in the editor? 2) will all the units have the CQB ability of the FFN? what im interested the most about the AI is their ability to take cover and search for the human player (while crouched) instead of just lying prone, standing up, lying prone, standing up and so on without trying to find the player. 3) is there a way to set the AI in the editor so the enemy (or friendly AI) wll actively search the enemy? i placed enemy AIs on the map but when they discover me they dont seem to search for me that much. they kinda stay pretty much where they were spawned. should it be that way or does the FFN supposed to add them the ability to search for the enemy? is there a command or a way to set the enemy AI that i place on the map so they will engage me actively (and search me\hunt me down) if they hear gun shots or see me? (im not too savee with the editor so im asking.)

i didnt know that and i used the line suiting for 1.15, BUT i actually use 1.14. it didnt seem to cause problems for me. cant tell why its important. couple more Qs: 1) say, do u know how i can make AIs in the editor use the FFN AI? should i add lines to the AIs? should i add way points? 2) also, if i install the FFN currectly will all the AIs in the game make a use of it or only the FFN missions AI?

thanks again, manzilla. you are very very helpful guy :) i searched the method of combining mods and got confused - should my shortcut look like this blablabla\arma.exe -mod=beta;DBE1;@ACE;@FFN or like this blablabla\arma.exe -mod=;@ACE;@FFN ? what is the ;DBE1 part u added??

sorry. accidental post.

Hi everyone. im really new here. green as a leaf. i got ARMA as a gift with a hardware about 6 months ago. i gave it a shot and was disappointed with the poor AI and how un-friendly the game was to me. because of these reasons i uninstalled the game. Recently it came to my knowledge that there might be some nice AI mods for ARMA that imroves the way the AI behaves. FFN is a name that came up. however since i am SO new to ARMA and modding every game is a different story i would like to ask u a few questions - 1) how do i apply mods to arma? what do i need installed in order to get the to work? 2) what AI mods are out there? what do they do? do they work together? 3) i saw some nice youtube vids of FFN (by tonyranger1985) and the AI seemed pretty impressive. how is this mod, in your opinions? what does it do? (i read some info at armaholic and it seems like its a mission addon. can i install only the AI addon? i dont get it :( ) any kind of help will be appreciated. thanks in advance, guys.

FFN_REPLACEMENT_RANGE.pbo is supposed to make all AI work with the improved FFN code, no? if that is the case than maybe i should change the FFN mod i am using so i can use the FFN_REPLACEMENT_RANGE.pbo. is 0.82 better?

manzilla, thank u so much for trying to help, buddy. 1) nope. only ACE and FFN 2) the latest. 1.07 i think. the latest. 3) latest as well. 0.83. and from that i use the MP one, yes. 4) i have ver 1.93. latest. as u can see im very up to date :) very fasionable when it comes to software. HOWEVER, my questions - 6) im not sure how to implement the two mods together. where should i place the *.PBO files? should i place them in the @ACE\addon folder or somewhere else? 7) maybe i AM playing with the FFN and i just dont know it cuz maybe im expecting too much :P i dont know how to tell if it's working fully or not. is there a way to know if its working or not? (since i havent played ARMA without mods than its hard for me to have a point of comparison). 8) is it possible that some parts of the AI improvement are working and some dont?! 9) i tried to make a very (VERY) basic mission with the editor - placed some ACE units in a village. placed some friendlies with me and a trigger that ends the mission when all opfors are dead. should i expect that the AI will behave according to the FFN mode or will they behave vanilla? what am i supposed to do to make all AI in the game to act like in the FFN mod? 10) can i place both TR_FFN_MP_REPLACEMENT.pbo AND FFN_REPLACEMENT_RANGE.pbo in the @ace\addon folder or should i choose?! cuz i have them both in it. what are the consequences of putting both of them? thanks, in the meantime, mate. EDIT: woops. forgot no.5. 5) urrr.... how's the wife?

is it just me or the AI with FFN is a much worse shot than before? or is it ACE that made them like that? also their reaction time is much much longer. they might stare at me for a good 3 seconds or more without firing a shot. the best balance is make the AI either fire quickly but not accurately or take their time to aim but then shoot fairly well.

manzilla, i DID update the game to 1.14 and the FFN seems to run. however no one answered my questions. i would appreciate if u can relate to my questions according to numbers so i will get it clear. sorry, im too new here to figure things out from bits and pieces ppl throw at me at different messages. i'll get the grip of it eventually..... i hope - 1) does the AI FFN have applies to all AIs in the game or only in the FFN missions? if i want to use it in a custom made missions (editor) or in the normal SP missions, do i have to do something in order for the FFN AI to take affect? cuz i installed FFN and the AI doesnt behave like i've seen on the youtube vids. on youtube they seemed to stay on their feet a lot more and be much more dynamic. in my game they just crawl all the time.... 1.5) inthe mission editor i see types of soldiers i can place and they are called TR soldiers. what's that? are they FFN related? if so, what do these guys have different than the normal soldiers? 2) u said ACE has nice tweaks but the AI isnt THAT improved. if one uses ACE and FFN together (like u do) than does the AI improvement from FFN take over and improve upon ACE's AI improvement?! 3) so if i want to run ACE and FFN together i need to install the TR_FFN_MP_REPLACEMENT.pbo file of FFN with the ACE pack (and not the TR_FFN_SP_REPLACEMENT.pbo?) as well as use the 1.93 ver of XEH? that's it? 4) for mods to work all i need is to extract the addons to the addons folder and if it's missions than extract the missions to the missions folder, right? am i missing something? 5) im not sure this is related but i hope to figure it out - sometimes, when i play, my character goes to prone when fired upon without me telling it to. also my aiming is shaking a lot. what is that? it doesnt happen ALL the time.

woopsy. double posted. soory :P

thanks for trying to help. guys. appreciated :) as i said - the thing im looking forward the most is the mest AI mod possible since it's the biggest thing that disappointed me in ARMA the 1st time i tried it. all they did was run, prone, run, prone... horrible. never took cover, never tried to go stealthy or crouched... pretty damn bad. 1) FFN seems (according to the videos) to do some nice things. question is - does it work out of the box as an AI overhaul? will the AI in every SP mission and user created missions act according to the improved codes? or will only the FFN missions work with the better AI? 2) i am not a computer noob and i am fine with mods, usually. if someone can just explain to me what folders should be created than i'll do it. 3) does the ACE mod work with FFN? can i install the ACE mod and on top of it install FFN? thanks, you guys.

thanks, manzilla. after trying to install and run FFN i got these error messages: 1) when running the game: "addon extended_evenHandlers requiers version 1.08 of application." 2) when trying to run an FFN single player mission i get this: "You cannot play\edit this mission it is dependent on a downloadable content that has been deleted." a) what is this? how can i fix this? b) does that mean that the AI enhancements are not active when i play either or jsut the missions? c) do the AI enhancements of FFN apply in all vanilla SP missions and any new editor missions i make by myself? does it need some more elaborate input on my behalf when creating my own missions in the editor or can i just place AIs on the map and test to see how it works? after copying the latest version of extended_evenHandlers i get another error: ""addon TR_FFN_MP_replacement requiers version 1.14 of application." now what? i installed the latest ffn mod (0.83 beta)and the latest EEH and i get these errors :( d) i heard that ACE is the bomb and all but i dont really know what it does. will look for it. since i care so much about AI i think i will try AI mods first. i read somewhere that ACE doesnt work with FFN. is that true? e) i read about GL3 but i dont know if it features a better AI improvement over FFN.