benu

I really think self-extracting archives (regardless of whether they are zip, ace or rar) are the way to go (although i voted for plain archives cause i like them better). You can open plain and self-extracting archives like archives under windows and linux and people wanting to get everything done automatically can use the self-extracting part. I really dislike installers as you can't use them on linux servers in most cases, and this means downloading the addon to your box @home, installing it there and uploading it with a few kB/sec to the server instead of using the serves fat pipe.

What can i say, none of those problems applies to me. We only had one guy on our server yet that we suspected cheating. Also, our mappers make missions for our addons. Actually, it's the opposite: when our mappers want addons on the server i put them onto the server. I don't really care about other servers being empty or full as i normally play only on my own server. We got enough players in the evening for coop or cti, so i can't complain about that. Installation is not a problem for the players as i have ofp watch take of that for them, and it installs everything into one server specific modfolder, so there can be no duplicate addons and no mixups with other servers.

Well, it seems the odd versions of the gf suck and the even ones are good, so gf6 could be a winner But i will wait how the ati compares and most probably buy some now cheap 9800 and think about those cards in a year or two.

Well, a mission competition to promote the use of more/all addons is not the best way i think. Either you limit the addons to be used (in which case it will most probably be the addons most mission makers use anyway) or you don't, then you will get most probably 50+ mb of addons to download for each entered mission. Although i don't think anything bad can come out of this idea. What i'd like to see better were a site where you (as a mission maker) can send your missions to to get them hosted. I know there are some sites already doing this, but none of them has what i consider crucial for this: you have to be able to do complex searches via the webfrontend and it would be good to get direct download links instead of cgi redirections. I'd like to be able to activate all mods/addons i have on my server in the web frontend and see all missions containing only that addons/mods. Or to see all missions using eg the marpats and see which additional addons i need, either as direct download or at least with a direct download link. From the point of a server administrator i would say most servers have many missions using their addons (would be pointless to have the addons on the server else) and would like to get even more. But it's really a pain to find missions containing no addons you don't already have large amounts on the server. We have around 900mb of addons on the server and i often find missions containing addons we do not have. I am not willing to install that much more addons, in the contrary i am trying to reduce addons. Any mission fulfilling that criteria would be welcome. OTOH you can be sure to download some 100mb of addons if you want to play any of our missions. So in most cases it is pointless trying to upload them anywhere. Who would download a missions that needs 300mb of addons? So the most crucial thing imho is a good search function with lots of addon filters. And if the maintainers of that site have too much time on their hands they can even rate the missions like on opflashpoint.org

I am not sure who you am talking to, but we use fdf inside its modfolder and most everything else in another modfolder (ecp has it's own). The setup is kind of: each "real" mod (config.bin/config.cpp) has it's own modfolder, the rest of addons goes to to one other folder.

Yes. Just create a modfolder, an dta subfolder and put it there.

No, it's not about how fast, it's about being possible at all. In this scenario (addons should be readable by ofp1 -> game has key -> i have game), it is just not possible. It starts with ofp1 not having any crytographic keys and ends with if it had any i could just use them too. Proof me wrong. I just want to get this point out of this discussion as fast as possible so we can concentrate on the real issues. Wrong again. If something as this will appear with ofp2 the key will just have to be "reversed" once, by one wily hacker. After that every "script kiddie" can just "decrypt" every addon. Me2. That's why i want to get out of this really pointless encryption debate once and for all. I have the impression no one in favour of this has any understanding of computer security. I always read nebulous "encrypt the addons" but can't see how they want to do it. Especially as there is no decrytion inside ofp1 at all. It would be cool if everyone wanting encryption either tells us of their genius idea and how to do it (i would patent it first though, you could get rich with this) or buries the topic once and for all.

I installed wgl on my linux server with wine and made a packet of the files. So if any other linux admins needs them he can contact me per pm and i can give you a download link. We are a little short on traffic, or else i would have made a public link. Sorry.

Maybe i am overlooking something but afaik encryption will not protect addons in any way, especially user-made ones. If you think otherwise please explain how you think it should work. And i don't mean which algorithm (like 1024bit AES keys), but more like which procedure (like public/private key encryption or one time pads). Has any of you people suggesting encryption any background in computer science, especially computer security, especially encryption and does still believe this could work? Actually anyone i talked about this find the idea hilarious...

Get an editor that does regex renaming and try something like replace (wgl_.*)_400 with $1.

We have everything from BAS on our server and also FDF mod (and most other stuff from Kegetys). If we start FDF on the server it is started addionally to all other addons, so in effect we are playing with BAS+FDF then. No problems so far. Although i am not sure if all BAS addons we use are original ones or fixed versions from Killswitch

Get the "stripped" boutique.pbo here (3mb).

Iirc the boutique.pbo contains more than just textures. But i removed the data2.pbo (contains only textures) and made a new boutique.pbo without textures in it and this is working fine on my server.

Maybe the topography cheat will help...

As i guess it will use the same way of installing itself as all the other skymods this one most probably won't work for you either. Why don't you try to get the installation script working?

That's very nice of you, Lt_Damage, but i was speaking on behalf of other linux admins too. But i guess it takes only one windows admin to get the ball rolling, after that we can share it server to server. Maybe i will try to get wine running on the server so i can do stuff like that myself. Update: i just successfully made an installation from the installer using wine... BTW: i just looked into the v4.0 and noticed 3 files with different md5sums to the addons i already have on my server (ags_inds.pbo, kegags.pbo and lsr_gru.pbo). Are any of those changed by the WGL team and what changes were made?

Could you please make simple tar/ace/rar/zip/bzip2 archieves for (linux) servers too? You can leave out the data.pbos (or installation scripts for those) too, as the server doesn't need to display textures anyway, so it will be smaller too. It's a pain to have a server with 100mbit connection which you could download it directly too and then not be able to install it because of a windows installer, which means downloading it to home and then uploading it to the server with measly home connection speeds again...

TJ and i have been shouting at each other a little in private and can understand each others points better now. Mostly i can understand his concerns regarding this tool better IMHO one of the points that may be worth discussing is the one he brought up here: does the development of a tool like this give the creators any responsibility before offering it to the community? If so, which? I guess there will be many opinions and no "laws of nature" in this discussion though, and the tool is out already, so maybe the point is moot already. Yeah, the other thread just got civil and i missed some good posts there. This copyright stuff is the most interesting part i think. I think there should be a discussion about copyright in general, what is covered by copyright and what can the creators of work do protect their work and what can it be protected of at all and what will be the consequences for people violating copyrights of addons/scripts. Cause laws differ from country to country (one has to stress this point, the citizens of at least one country in this world always seem to think that their laws apply to all other countries in the world too ) and as EiZei said: EULAs are void in his country and here too, it would be cool if someone with at least moderate knowledge of copyright laws could start that topic so it doesn't start off badly.

*sigh* I guess i have too much time today First, this has so far been the "best" post i read from in this discussion. There are many different opinions and statements going on in these two threads, and it's getting a little chaotic. So lets try to solve it bit by bit. If i forgot something you can always ask of course. 1: if really anybody who asked gets your mlods, then why is this odol converter so evil? They get what they would have gotten anyway, but without having to ask you. Imagine people that want to start modelling, don't have a clue, that just want to tinker with some addons to see if they can get a hang of it. Would you be willing to send thousands of them your addon by email? What is really important about that asking for permission when they do not want to do anything that effects you and your work anyway? They are not going to publish it (else they are in big trouble because of copyright anyway). They are just trying to learn. Maybe they do not yet know which addon may help them, they would have to ask dozens of modmakers and get lots of big mails. And those modmakers would have to answer all those requests or leave those people out in the rain. I don't really think that really everybody would get the mlods for you as you act so secretive and protective about your addons, but this is only assuming on my behalf and i don't want to call you a liar. Long explanation, short question: what exactly is so important about asking to use the model for private educational purposes only? This leads to another question which would sum this all up: what do you want to prevent people from doing with your addons (by either encrypting them or optimizing them with binarize)? That's the main question of the whole discussion in my eyes. 2) Addon makers deciding what do with addons: nobody forced you to publish it. If you publish it people can use it to the extent of their laws, eg selling them as their own would be punishable by law. You want them to only use them in missions, not look at them or modifiy them. I can understand that. Although this has been possible for missions and scripts before and none of the missionmakers and scripter made a big issue out of it before. And maybe this finer granting of rights has been possible to some extent due to odol modells before. And now it is not. Does this give you a right? Juristically? Differs from country to country. Ethically? Differs from person to person. I guess that's the other point that the discussion is really about. 3) Learning: you too seem to be of the opinion that you have the ability to decide how other people learn best. That's funny, actually, cause no member of the "other side" had to make any claims about the opinions and abilities of other people to make his point. I think we should stick to facts and not base our arguments on something we believe to know about other people. Especially when those other people say openly that they are not the way you see them. This seems to be a sidepoint though. 4) Thieves: you never literally said it. I am not sure if anyone did. This is just one of the "metaphors" i use for the distrust i have seen from addon makers towards the community. Come on, answer the first two questions and tell me what exactly you are afraid of when your models can be converted to mlod. If it is not theft or learning then what else it it? Maybe i am too uninmaginative to think of it, but by wanting to protect your addons against this thing, you are implying that the community as a whole would do such a thing to your addon against your will. Whatever it is, you are implying that the community knows you do not want this done to your addons and that they will do it nevertheless. You tell that you distrust the community. I guess any term is as good as another for this distrustful thinking. 5) encryption: normally you want to encrypt stuff (to protect it) and decrypt it (else you could just have deleted it). Regardless of encryption algorith you need a decryption key. Your encryption is only as good as this key. If i encrypt stuff with 4096 bit aes and give everybody the key then it is not secure as anyone can decrypt it. Regardless of how you encrypt your addons, ofp has to be able to decrypt it or those addons will not work ingame. So your "master key" is public, everyone has it, everyone can look. Your encrypted addon is only as secure as this "key" is and this "key" by looking at ofps pbo loading routine. In other words: it only needs one tool. This tool will be able to decrypt your addons regardless of which encryption you will use. Anything you can do is obfuscating, which will be easy to reverse in any case. Do yourself a favour and stop this futile attempt at encrypting and invest that time in some good modelling tutorials instead. Or read your mails and send out some mlods to people that have asked in the last days

LOL right with you here. LOL. Only reading "military grade decryption" made me laugh. The poster obviously hasn't got a clue about computer security. Sorry, but a few buzzwords don't make security. No problem at all, this is what i would if i wanted to get some mlods. 1) your hard work is protected by international copyright laws. 2) your encryption stuff will not work 3) just wanting a tool like this shows how much you disrespect the community of ofp players Where do you get that from? Actually, if anyone would rip off your addons you had my full support in fighting it. All rights to the addon maker. What i don't like is your disrespect to all users, who are apparently good enough to admire your addons (or why do you publish them?), but not good enough to learn from them (or why do you want to encrypt them?). You are saying it all the time. Whom do want to protect your addons from? If all people in the community were honest (in your opinion) there would be no need for encryption. Except you also wanted to prevent people from just looking and learning from your models. So you are actually saying that without this encryption the community would steal your addons. This distrust was apparent from several mod teams in the last weeks, and afaik this was not present in ofp community before. And afaik there is no reason for this distrust, nothing happened that could be a justified cause for this thinking. I never said anything to the contrary. Addon making takes so much skill and effort that the odol converter will be useless to most people. It will not bring a flood of new and good addons to the community. I think nobody ever believed that. I even think nobody ever said that, though i could be wrong. Nevertheless it is a useful tool for some, very useful even. And for legitimate purposes. Some infos for you: 1) I don't make addons. I only use them. I give a rats ass about encrypted addons. I couldn't care less. If i would start to make models i would ask the maker before releasing anything, because i respect his work. 2) You did learn everything from somewhere too. BIS models, Tutorials, infos from other modders, testing yourself, i don't care. But all of a sudden it is all your work. But all of a sudden other people aren't good enough to do the same to your addons. I can only believe how low you must rate bis, as their addons must be inferior to yours by far, cause people are allowed to look at those but not at yours. Although this argument goes more to TJ who said he would freely give away BIS models to everyone, but who objects to other modders addons being "given away". What would be illegal about it? DMCA? Laws are different in most countries of the world. They would be copyrighted too without encryption, and people who don't care about copyrights don't care about encryption either. The point you don't seem to get is: it is all about respect. Your discrimination and prejudice against the community shows your disrepect for this community. And with you i mean all people who were against the odol converter and especially those now planning to "encrypt" their addons. And i guess a good part of the community does not understand why you want to limit their possibilities to look at addons or toy around with them in private, just because you disrepect them. And many just don't like being called a thief. Actually, this discussion is getting boring, there are no new arguments coming up it seems, and there seem to be too many people that are not willing to carefully read and think about the arguments of the other side or change their mind even if they are out of arguments. Hell, if you had good arguments like past model stealing by large amounts i might change my mind. But actually, there are laws protecting your work. Sue the hell out of those thieves. But don't go around and call everyone a thief. I wish you no ill, maybe we will read about your cool new encryion tool soon, and further down the road we will see how long the protection held, and how it did effect the community. I just hope for the best for the community. I believe the community will regulate itself anyway.

It's easy for mp, there aren't alot warez keys going round and you can recognize them easily in the server logs, one id with 30+ names eg, and you can filter those ids into the ban file. Actually, i have a script that does this on my server, although i don't run it too often in the last time...

TJ, actually, you can't really talk about the future yet when the present is not clear. You could only declare to wait and see what comes of this tool. Which you are not willing to do, you want the save funtion removed in the next version as you said yourself. I really get the impressions you don't really accept the points of the other sides. There were people who said they could use the save function for legitime purposes. Please accept this. This tool is useful for someone. The only thing you are saying is either "no, you are wrong, I say there is no use in the save function, so you are wrong, because i am the only judge how addon making has to be learned" or that "harm will come from this tool for sure". I am not sure what more to write about the first statement. If you care to respond to it then please write either a) that the save function has useful purposes as other people are telling or b) why you know better then themselves what is good for other people. This stealing thing has not been proven, maybe it will be in the future, but i don't think so. Until then it is prejudice and discrimination. And the experience from the past tells us that it hasn't in the past to any noteworthy extent. But you call us all thieves. Even if you go into the "only the argentinians and italians are thieves" thing now, it's still the same prejudice and discrimination. Where are the facts? Where is the evidence? What i really don't get is why especially you act this way. I have known you as one of the most friendly, helpful and sharing guys i know in this community and i can't really fit your posts in this thread to the picture i have of you. When did this change happen and why? I guess one reason this topic is debated so heatedly is because of the sentiments that were shown in some other threads in the last weeks where some addon makers started calling the rest of the community ungrateful thieves. Also, without any evidence or even without anything bad happening at all. And it's always coming from the same directions. I really don't get where this attitude is coming from. I have seen no change of mentality "here in userland". The only changes have been in some addon maker teams it seems. And please don't come with "behind the scenes" bullshit. Behind the scenes was p3dedit. This tool has nothing to do with "behind the scenes". If some Joe Blow behind the scenes already got p3dedit decrypted models from you, nice for him. I didn't get anything. This board has 27000 members. Can you honestly say "of course i would have mailed the decrypted bis models to all the 27000 users if they had decided to take an interest into modelling, even if they had no projects"? Can you? And as Miles said: it is all about respect. I respect the work of addon makers, and i don't care if they are a renowned mod team or some unknown "nobody". If someone makes a good addon i respect it. I respect the skill, the effort, the giving. I respect the mission makers too. I see their effort from our mission makers, from the questions i read in the forums and in the finished missions. I am a server admin, and a good server is more then just copying the files and starting the server script. If a server is well run i can see the work that was put into it and i respect that too. I respect our players who share their free time with us to have fun games with us. But this respect is based on the things that they do. I do not know you as person, so i couldn't respect your character even if i wanted to. And i would never write stuff like that i want to have your babies It is sad that the work of some addon maker teams gets overshadowed by the stuff they write here. Maybe ***** (decided to take the name out) is known "behind the scenes". I don't know him, i don't know his addons. But right now i am feeling like i don't ever want to have his addon on my server or in the missions i play, because the only thing i know about right now are his asshole-style postings in this thread. Please don't take it personal. The many good things you have done can (in my eyes) not be overshadowed by this debate. But as you seem to be willing to go on in this debate, try to counter this arguments. And btw: this is from someone who has only marginal interest in the tool himself. Maybe i will use it to look at some models, i am interested in all things ofp. Maybe i will do models for personal use if i get the hang of it. But actually this has nothing to do with the points that came up from the "enemies" of this tool. It's more about the "i don't accept your statement that you can use this tool" and "you are all thieves" thing. On other thing: please don't make generalisations to prove your point. Please no "some evil H4XXX0rz out there who aren't in this board" and no "evil argentinian and italian gangsters" who might somewhere in the future steal an addon. As you said yourself: there are 274 pages in A&M:C, with 15 topics each. How many of those >4000 addons have been stolen?

Actually, it were the mod creators who started breaking the community into this "me versus you" thing, where there are the "good addon makers, that work hard and don't want fame or anything" and the "evil users that rip apart the addons to steal thema and pass them off as their own work". Although there never has been any stealing in the past, even when addons were not protected. But somewhere along the line the whole community was turned into thieves and liars, at least in the eyes of some addon makers. Now they want to start the next round by "encrypting" their addons. I have only two things to say: 1) It's not possible. If the game can open and read them, then anyone else can too. Maybe the tools have to be modified too, but that will not take long. Take a good introduction course to cryptography or ask anyone who knows about that topic and you will see why. 2) If you want your addons "secure", then don't release them. Actually, i wish you did, then this calling the whole community liars and thieves had an end. If you really think so about the community, then please go away. Make addons for another game. I want the spirit of the community back, and you are poisoning it.

But in any case nothing except the exe gets modified.

Afaik configs have not changed from v1.90, so you can use that one. But i don't have a link, but i guess someone else can help you out.