terox

Removed post was just letting off steam :-)

Bearing in mind that the convention is for global use throughout the OFP Mplayer community There is no rush to implement it tomorrow, so a prolonged discussion exploring alll avenues is worthwhile <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>THE ADDON MARKER @</span></span> This applies to servers of three types 1) Servers that do not use any addons 2) Servers that use addons only 3) Servers that use a mix of non addon & addon maps When i talk about addons, i mean ANYTHING thats is required to play a map other than the standard files installed during the game installation 1) Servers that dont use any addon, will never have the @ sign, so apart from it being a Danger marker for the server if somebody inadvertently mails it to an admin for upload, they will never see it 2) Addon servers, they will  have all map names with @ in the name, so to them, it makes no difference whether you use it in any of the following ways @ ctf ctf@ ctf @ Because which ever way you use it, the list will still be sorted in Map Type order (This is a fact) 2) Mixed map servers This is the problem one Ok lets play make believe. The admin wants to load a ctf that uses an addon For arguments sake lets say the island is Nogova, there are 100 non addon maps and 100 addon maps For each supergroup there are 25 C&H 25 CTF 25 Coop 25 Other types (Misc) So by placing the @ at the start of the filename (@ CTF) it creates 2 supergroups of 100 maps each. He knows its a ctf (Which he will know in real life) and he knows it has an addon So He goes to the first group of CTF's and searches through 25 maps.  However By placing the @ after the map group CTF@ he only has to go to one ctf map group, but he now has to scroll through 50 ctf's The CTF@ will be all listed together at the latter half of the CTF list Either way it makes no difference as to the speed of finding a map or distinguishing it as an addon The only difference is If you want to specifically load an addon map, your addon choice of all map types is together and not spread apart And vice versa for non addon maps It also makes the list easier on the eye. I have no problem with 1) @ ctf 2) ctf@ 3) ctf @ But i do think they belong together, not in the map name or after the player limit. Placing them further into the list, would cause non distinguishable sorting So what should we do I still prefer the @ preceding map type, but am quite happy to go with the flow ---------------------------------------------------------- <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Map makers tag</span></span> Absolutely not required in the filename How many of us use the map makers name to choose maps?By adding their tags it just adds another grouping which isnt required Mapmakers have more security placing their names ingame, where it can only be hacked by de-pbo. There are plenty of places to put it Intro Briefing etc If they really wanted too, they could place their name tag at the start of the actual map name say @ctf (30) terox-riverdance Having created map myself, i see no reason to put my name in the file name, most players will never see it, but they will see what i placed in the briefing, intro etc League maps are a different matter, they can simply preceed the actual name ie ctf (22) efl everonIII efl being Euro Flashpoint League. I did think of having league maps start with the league tag, but there are too many leagues to make this a nice neat system. ------------------------------------------------------------------------------- <span style='color:red'><span style='font-size:12pt;line-height:100%'>Game & Map version</span></span> Most admins whho just log into the server and run the server wont really understand the reasons for this, however if you have total control of a server this becomes more important ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.85 Beta 1.0).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.85 Beta 1.1).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.85 Beta 1.2).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.85 Beta 1.3).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.85 v1).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.90 v1).noe.pbo ctf (30) armourgeddon (1.90 v2).noe.pbo Initially the map had its first beta release on whatever server it was tested on, which was running 1.85 It had a few bugs, so a new version was released.(Beta 1.1) This seemed to run well, so the admin deleted the older version A few more bug fixes later another version was released.(Beta 1.2) This crashed the server, so it was deleted, but the version before it was still okay (Had the filename being the same. we would have lost the previous version) Another version was released (Beta 1.3) This worked fine, no more bugs, it was taken out of Beta and the admin simply renamed the filename, swapping Beta 1.3 to v1 (v1 being the first finished map release) Now a new game patch was released (1.90) No maps had been played on the new game version, so they all remained 1.85 A few hours later 6 out of 12 maps had been played and tested, the admin having done this, then renamed the filenames, swapping 1.85 to 1.90. He then leaves the server Half an hour later another admin logs in, sees the 1.9 tags on some maps but not on others, he plays for a few hours and hey presto, all the 12 maps have now been tested on the new game version and their filenames upgraded. The new gamepatch has also brought out additional weapons. These weapons are now added to the ammo crates and map version 2 is released Joe bloggs has been playing on server A (1.9) server Map ctf (30) mymap (1.85 v1) The first time the map has been run He then goes to server B, theyve updated their mymap to 1.90 he goes back to server A to play, they have now updated mymap to 1.90, he doesnt have to dl it. But both server managed to test and upgrade the map, and there is only one version of the map on either server

Ok fair enough on the addons marker being joined to the map type ie ctf@ I will amend the initial post as far as using _ between things, why on earth do you want to clutter the name up when its FAR more easier to read with spaces. I again refer to the jpeg screen shot Zeus, our 48 player linux test server has no problems with spaces, and Stoners House of pancakes 30 player server finds spaces much easier on the eye

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My main point was not that everybody should have editorUpdate & editorUpgrade, but that 90% of missions use them (at least, this is what happens on our server). this make the addons tag really less usefull then. <span id='postcolor'> I would agree with you, that on your server it wouldnt be as useful. However the convention is not designed for any particular server, it is designed for the whole OFP community (Which is going to take some time to fully implement) To some servers it isnt important to distinguish addon maps from others. For some servers that are only coop servers, its more important to have player limits as the primary listings Some servers only do Addon maps Some servers dont do any addons at all I spent a long time looking at all the various aspects and possibilities before i posted the convention The convention was designed to be Global, not server specific For instance Vets coop server would probably prefer to list their maps by player limit. Lets call the file 24_coop_last stand Whereas stoners would prefer to list it by map group coop_24_last stand to a 10 player limit server, the number of players isnt important at all. To combine all this into 1 filename, so that you dont download the map 3 times as you visit each server in turn I came up with the universal convention. Some aspects of the convention will be useless to some servers but very important to others Which is why I am asking you to think beyond your regular server

You miss the point about the @ at the start, it isnt so that someone can ask everybody if they have the addon. Its so that the admin stops and thinks "Ah this map uses an addon, should i be loading it, shall i warn folks that i am about to load an addon map etc"!!! , so that if they get kicked, they know the reason why (Dont forget, there is no message that says to the client "You didnt have the addon******", they simply find themselves disconnected In addition Its so every map that uses addons on the server are grouped together, in much the same way as ctf's and c&h's are grouped together. For each island it basically creates two distinctive "Supergroups", 1) Addon maps 2) Non addon maps and then within these supergroups it then subcategorises them by map type (Which is why the spaces are required) It then lists those map types by player limits This makes there presence when looking through the map listings more defined and more searchable. Dont think "Your regular server", think more globally. to the extent (And this is a dream at the moment), that when u log in as say voted admin on any server all the map choices are in the same order. and split into categories in the same way. Now by not creating an addon category are you saying that Addons are not an important category and therefore it isnt really important to distinguish them from non addon maps, so this is why you want to place the addon marker, whatever it is, further into the name system, where it isnt as noticeable. You really have to forget about how it would work on your particular server and think about how it would work on every server and also think about players who dont understand diddly squat about pc's except how to click a mouse SHOP for instance has only 1 addon map and during the Europe daytime, voted admins are quite common, to have the 1 map that uses the only addon that the server supports, with its "Addon marker" incorporated into the name or map type, simply obscures the fact its an addon map and gives it a reasonable chance of being accidentally loaded and then kick half the players off Whereas some servers that play many addon maps would have quite a large Addon supergroup and possibly only a small Non addon supergroup. I thought about having the @ tag after the map type ie ctf@ c&h@ ctf @ c&h @ ctf_@ c&h_@ <span style='color:red'>Linux OFP servers do not have problems with spaces</span> this would work, but it would create 2 groups for every map type so if we say have 8 map types we then create 16 groups however if we precede with the @ we only have 9 groups What I am trying to create is a VERY SIMPLE convention The more basic the better 9 groups instead of 16 etc I want something that when the map selection screen opens, its as easy on the eye as i can get it Spaces make it easy on the eye, underscores dont You only have to look at the jpg to see that (Imagine removing the (bis) part of the upper listings and then compare them to the lower listings The Filename with spaces is much easier on the eye and u still get to see a good portion of the map name, certainly enough to distinguish it <span style='color:red'>So the question really is, globally do addon maps need to be distinguished from non addon maps in a clearly defined way?? or isnt it that important (Globally) and therefore intermingle addon maps with others by placing there @ in a more obscure location</span>

Ok its a little difficult to picture it on a forum, but try to imagine what the following looks like ingame Its easier to scan through a listing like this @ c&h (10) dragonlair (version etc etc) @ c&h (18) crazyhorse (version etc etc) @ c&h (20) ironmaiden (version etc etc) @ c&h (22) stealth (version etc etc) @ ctf (30) armourgeddon (version etc etc) @ ctf (30) decisive (version etc etc) @ tdm (32) widelyspread (version etc etc) a&d (12) hearstopper (version etc etc) c&h (16) breadbasket (version etc etc) c&h (22) deliverence (version etc etc) c&h (22) riverdance (version etc etc) c&h (30) long way down (version etc etc) c&h (30) Dragonlair (version etc etc) ctf (14) my very long map name (version etc etc) ctf (18) just another map (version etc etc) ctf (22) hells fury (version etc etc) tdm (12) bloodbatth (version etc etc) tdm (18) apocolypse (version etc etc) tdm (24) didnt know u cared (version etc etc) tff (16) bongo drums (version etc etc) than it is this way a&d_12_hearstopper (version etc etc) c&h@_10_ dragonlair (version etc etc) c&h_16_breadbasket (version etc etc) c&h@_18_crazyhorse (version etc etc) c&h@_20_ironmaiden (version etc etc) c&h_22_deliverence (version etc etc) c&h_22_riverdance (version etc etc) c&h@_22_stealth (version etc etc) c&h_30_Dragonlair (version etc etc) c&h_30_long way down (version etc etc) ctf_14_my very long map name (version etc etc) ctf_18_just another map (version etc etc) ctf_22_hells fury (version etc etc) ctf@_30_armourgeddon (version etc etc) ctf@_30_decisive (version etc etc) tdm_12_bloodbatth (version etc etc) tdm_18_apocolypse (version etc etc) tdm_24_didnt know u cared (version etc etc) tdm@_32_widelyspread (version etc etc) tff_16_bongo drums (version etc etc) or this way 10_c&h@_dragonlair (version etc etc) 12_a&d_hearstopper (version etc etc) 12_tdm_bloodbatth (version etc etc) 14_ctf_my very long map name (version etc etc) 16_c&h_breadbasket (version etc etc) 16_tff_bongo drums (version etc etc) 18_c&h@_crazyhorse (version etc etc) 18_ctf_just another map (version etc etc) 18_tdm_apocolypse (version etc etc) 20_c&h@_ironmaiden (version etc etc) 22_c&h_deliverence (version etc etc) 22_c&h_riverdance (version etc etc) 22_c&h@_stealth (version etc etc) 22_ctf_hells fury (version etc etc) 24_tdm_didnt know u cared (version etc etc) 30_c&h_Dragonlair (version etc etc) 30_c&h_long way down (version etc etc) 30_ctf@_armourgeddon (version etc etc) 30_ctf@_decisive (version etc etc) 32_tdm@_widelyspread (version etc etc) Reference Addon marker If its not at the very start of the filename, it will easily be missed by a voted in admin, who may just mistake it as a fancy sign that the mapmaker used and attach no significance to it. Due to the fact that the maps listed above and below may not have ab @ in them However if all the addon maps are grouped together (The only way to use this is to precede the name with @), then even those with no common sense, ie the type of player who wouldnt have a clue how to use a forum, would even ask the question. Â What is the @ for?? It would also stop admins loading maps that have addons by accident and kicking off half the players on the server without realising it Underscores Now that you can compare spaces with underscores, which gives more clarity? Bear in mind this is even more distinctive ingame Unable to see al filename If you hover the mouse over the filename ingame, a small temporary text box opens displaying the filename in full Here is what it looks like on Zeus (A linux server) apart from the @ having no space between itself and ctf, you can now see how clear and readable it is

Zeus, our Linux test server doesnt seem to have problems with spaces in the map filename either. I believe spaces lead to clarity whereas Underscores lead to clutter I have added "rc" = Race to Map Types, or would "rac" be better Another comment on a different forum was made about the inclusions of League maps I agree with the comments made that League maps need to be distinguished in some way. But how to do it Example A (For Euro Flaspoint league Map) ctf (24) efl everonIII (1.9 v1) or Example B efl ctf (24) everonIII (1.9 v1) It would look better and be easier to find if the complete filename was preceded with the league tag. However If you say have 8 different leagues, then this would create and extra 8 map groupings 1 for each league Maps by map type and the addons group So for simplicity i believe the better way is to have the league tag after the player limit, within the map name itself (So for now I have amended the initial post with that in mind)

Why do you want to use underscores instead of spaces, to split the groups up.??

I didnt mean to start a discussion on filename conventions in a thread about servers and addons, so I have created a thread all about it which hopefully we will discuss there Map Filename Convention My last thoughts on addons and dedicated servers. The best solution to all this, is for an ingame system that 1) Checks to see if the player has the addon that the map requires 2) And if the player doesn't, then automatically download and install it for him or Have some way of including the addon in the mapfile itself

Don't be too hasty to kick folks who have a high ping on joining, after a few seconds, minute etc, when they are fully connected to the server, a lot of these high pingers, pings drops to a very acceptable level. Ping does not necessarily = lag

If OFP was in its infancy, then running an addon server would probably work, however, now its lost its initial surge of newcomers, a balance has been achieved. Where old regulars that fade away are being replaced at the same rate by newbies. Adding addons to the equation may upset this balance. However maybe as some of the OFP dedicated servers, change to new games, the servers that remain will stay busy (We will have to wait and see) Having played and adminned on SHOP since OFP was first released, i really would welcome playing with new gimmicks. But not at the cost of reduced numbers of players. I love playing games of 15 v 15. or on Shrikes server 24 v 24 (Super battles) As far as the Naming of maps is concerned, we have recently introduced a file name template. And, if that map requires an addon , we simply preceed the name with @ @ = Addon required Full template system can be found on this link. PBO Filename template It states in order (Addon Required) (Map Type) (No. of Players) (Map Name) (Game Version) (Map version) Example @ C&H (32) Armourgeddon (1.85 v1).noe.pbo Every map on the server uses this template now, and when you have a hundred maps to scroll through, it really helps the admin to locate it

<span style='color:red'>I have 2 questions</span> (Apologies if this is in the wrong forum) ***************************************************************** <span style='font-size:25pt;line-height:100%'>1)</span> If possible I would like some clarification as to how the "Fade Message" is caused in the chatboxes when players connect to a dedicated server. There are three trains of thought in our forums a) When two players are on the server with the same ID number, it is triggered for the second player b) If the clients installation has been corrupted and requires a complete reinstall c) Or a combination of A & B. *************************************************************** <span style='font-size:25pt;line-height:100%'>2)</span> Also, our server is wanting to Ban the 6787 ID, due to the fact it is a cracked number. However some of our regular players use this ID number because they say (And i believe some of them) that they have lost their CD Key (Instruction Book) So, prior to us banning this ID , could you please explain the costs involved , timescale and procedure to be followed so that they have a chance of getting a new CD key Thanks (On behalf of Stoners House of Pancakes)

<span style='color:red'>I have 2 questions</span> (Apologies if this is in the wrong forum) ***************************************************************** <span style='font-size:25pt;line-height:100%'>1)</span> If possible I would like some clarification as to how the "Fade Message" is caused in the chatboxes when players connect to a dedicated server. There are three trains of thought in our forums a) When two players are on the server with the same ID number, it is triggered for the second player b) If the clients installation has been corrupted and requires a complete reinstall c) Or a combination of A & B. *************************************************************** <span style='font-size:25pt;line-height:100%'>2)</span> Also, our server is wanting to Ban the 6787 ID, due to the fact it is a cracked number. However some of our regular players use this ID number because they say (And i believe some of them) that they have lost their CD Key (Instruction Book) So, prior to us banning this ID , could you please explain the costs involved , timescale and procedure to be followed so that they have a chance of getting a new CD key Thanks (On behalf of Stoners House of Pancakes)

Just an observation With less players the desyn is not as noticeable, i suppose that goes without saying. As far as the desync is concerned 1) The desync I see causes players and vehicles to run on the spot, but not freeze the screen. So Is this a) Client desync (I think this is the one) b) Server desync. (I think this would cause the screen to freeze). On SHOP, i increased the max message sent, although this did not alter the desync at all, it seemed to lessen its effect somewhat I think i have a grasp on what desync is, but i would like somebody more technical than me to explain it . My understanding is that desync, is caused by the client processing data at a different slower rate than the server so that when it sends data back to the server its too late for the server to use it to update  and therefore it doesnt get updated until the next cycle or two afterwards Whereas lag is simply the amount of time it takes the data to reach the server. So lag is caused by the connection, whereas desync is caused by the system set up and software. So if this is true, then the problem lies with the amount of data that the client has to process compared to the server. Am i waffling on here, or is this an accurate perception as to what is happening.???

Hi, i am representing Stoners House of Pancakes, in the absence of Stoner. 1.85 Patch gave spurts of desync Missions not displayed in admins map selection screen 1.86 Patch Resolved the missions issue, but the desync stays the same 1.85 Patch with / without the throttleguarantee=1 command in the flashpoint.cfg file  hasn't changed the desync problem in anyway. Have tried using different settings throughout the cfg files but to no avail. On the positive side of things The server as a whole seems to be more stable, having seen no ghosts created, very few lost connections. Unfortunately i haven't managed to carry the server up to 1000 connections without a reboot, due to the reduced number of connections of players caused by these latest issues and my changing the cfg settings numerously. The OFP community seems to have died somewhat over the last week due to this latest patch release. This type of error kills gaming communities As for the ammo bug. We haven't seen it triggered to the extent it was in the past, but i have seen a small amount of spillage Framerate has not deteriorated, remaining the same 46 to 50 fps Summary, more downsides than positive Why did u put a bloody bicycle in the game, there are literally hundreds of addons made by some very competent folks out there and some of them are brilliant. Why didn't you use these and spend more time getting the meat of the program right

I have been an online gamer for over 10 years. OFP is the first game that I have come across that has wanted me to get more involved than just playing. I currently help to Admin a very busy OFP Dedicated server and am now in the middle of training up a Squad for competion gaming All Computer games, Â reach a User peak and then die off, with just a few die hards left OFP will inevitably fade away, but why speed up this process by making it harder for those who wish to play, finding a place to play. ASE have been good enough to provide support for OFP BIS have turned into the worst TK'ers I've yet seen in the OFP circle to date The best OFP experience is done with TEAMPLAY I have to commend you guys for OFP. Its unique and its awseome. Your consumers have supported you through your various problems and helped you to develop the game into what we have today. We have a good community spirit, but its now started to break down and will continue to do so if nothing is done Now support them, bring out A.S.E Support Get it right and get rich BIS