spooky lynx

1) Proof of forcing? You know, people may have some other idea and find Rada itself illegitimate. 2) That 'central government's legit is disputable because thay hand't used any legal procedure of ousting Yanuk. Revolt is not listed as legal way of changing the officials.

Some users compare current mess with Poland'39, but I'd say it looks like such operations as "Power Pack", "Urgent Fury", Bay of Pigs invasion, "Just Cause" and "Uphold Democracy". Good organization means spontaneous look for average people. Sure, noone will walk with signs 'riot chief', 'uprising financist' etc. Everything must be looking as spontaneous, otherwise it will fail in a day. Balkan mess is not an exception. Just plain crowd won't be able to do anything without proper directors, believe me. My country faced plenty of unrests and uprisings too. - Corrupted politicians were in Ukraine since 1992. I'd remind you that Yanuk's election campaign was based on struggle with corruption of Yushenko's regime. - Rada stepped back after serious unrest were started at South-Eastern regions and local councils started to refuse obeying Rada one by one. - Problems in Crimea occured after far right groups became too active within opposition. Again, Yanuk's government wasn't puppet, he tried to seat at two chairs simultaneously, behaving as whore - "I'll take the side of those who will pay more". He strafed from one side to another and than back. That wouldn't be bad for Ukraine IMHO. There are many ties within industry, reunion will remove the borders and remake many of ex-USSR ties. Large part of Ukrainian industry is oriented to Russian market, we share many common technologies. For such ventures as Motor-Sich, Antonov removing borders will ease the business. We had to decomiss many modern tanks such as T-80UD because buying spare parts from foreign country (Ukraine) was rather difficult.

You have to have organization to deliver everything required for such big amount of people, otherwise it would not have an ability to exist there for such a long time. It's not enough just to go and buy. Collecting money, organizing deals, finding a store where everything you need is at necessary amount. Even an organization of simple study practice in which I had taken part needed descent planning, budgeting etc. Weapons? Yes weapons that were used against 'ritual victims' that were murdered for sake of heating the maidan. And weapons that were used against MVD troops armed with batons, smoke grenades and shields. Transport - yes transport and moving lots of inhabitants from Rivno, Trenopol, Lviv, Ivan-Frankivsk. Don't be so naive, such large groups can not just think at one moment and move to Kyiv. Pravy sektor and Svolota played key role, I suppose you won't deny this, yes? You need a order to create such file at first, aren't you? Collecting personal data of all those who do not share maidan ideas (including long list of bloggers who write anything against maidan) - all this must be ordered. If you haven't seen organization - it doesn't matter is wasn't.

One difference: both Spanish and British examples you provided hadn't a goal to overthrow local government. And maidan has such goal. You are right, Russian hooligans may organize themselves too. But until the limited level that does not include seizing any official buildings or organizing parallel authorities. And even veterans of Afghan need commanders to become potent force.

Are you sure that such protest is sponsored by average Kyiv citizens?:D All those food, aids, tents, weapons, fuel, transport, storming of local buildings, leak of databases with names of anti-maidan officials and MVD servicemen - who gave the money for all this? Believe me, average citizens can not organize such uprising by themselves, somebody more competent does it.

That's true:

Ukraine were put into bankrupcy slowly since rule of Kravchuk, its first president. None of Ukraine's rulers no matter of their political party hadn't done anything for their country to become well developed. After USSR collapse Ukraine had one of the best starting conditions - huge modern industry, agriculture, lots of modern arms left by Soviet army, good climate. All that was done then was destruction, stealing, selling abroad. And then blaming moskali.

There is one problem: Maidan is headed and sponsored by the same corrupted politicians and oligarchs like those of Yanuk's crew. Firtash, Kolomoisky, Ahmetov, Avakov (new MVD head with capital of $400 mil., two years ago was charged but escaped persecution due to Rada deputy immunity) - they are not better than Yanuk's son or their friends. They robbed Ukraine the same way as previous officials. And those of Batkivshina party are not better than PoR ones. So after all this unrests and deaths one corrupts and oligarchs were ousted by another ones. Do you think Kolomoisky or Firtash will give back all the stolen? You know, Yanuk and PoR were elected with the help of... guess what? Ukrainians tired of orange government that ruined economy and was full of corruption. Yes, Yanuk's PR was built on the promises to fight with corruption of orange government. Now those who lost election to Yanuk seized back the power. To be honest they are two heads of one hydra. Kolomoisky's "Privat" bank holds not less money than those affiliated with Yanuk. Guess, will it be overlooked for the money that were stolen? I bet those who will try it will be found with the hole in the head on the next day. Again, I don't defend Yanuk's regime, moreover it was not and is not pro-Russian. But I find those who ousted it are much worse in every way. The same political whores that already were in Rada and government and oligarchs but now with addition of nazis. Is it better?

Small in numbers but most organized and armed. As I said earlier. But I agree with you about them serving well Putin's propaganda. As well as those idiots sitting at Rada now. Instead of trying to solve terrible economic problems (they admit that budget is empty, there's no money) they mess with the language question and chat about 'results of Soviet occupation of Ukraine'. Yeah, indeed monuments and symbols are way more important than empty pockets... Seems like they believe that a treasure is hidden under every Lenin monument and they do their best to find all of them. That's why I don't like maidanuts - they show total ignorance in economic and administration. Meanwhile some sources claim that a number of Ukrainian AF detachments either leave their barracks or side with local self-defence forces. http://en.itar-tass.com/world/721649 http://en.ria.ru/military_news/20140302/188021252/Ukrainian-Troops-in-Crimea-Side-with-Pro-Russia-Forces.html

Some info about rallies in eastern regions. And interesting video about cuys that control Kyiv: http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=GkiSPMpTp_I

Care to write your list? Or maybe stop butthurting?

I don't know any case of punishing any bully 'superpower' or just regional powerful country if its actions don't hurt someone's income interests. Africans may slaughter eachother for years with hundreds of thousands, but if it does not interrupt flow of natural resources - everything is okay, nobody cares. As for Putin... If I would at his place I would bomb the craep out of all that Pravy sektor and Svolota, far right crooks should not get the power in any of neighboring countries. We still remember their 'heroic' actions.

Mistake that is still not condemned and even recognized as mistake. I honestly say I do not know who are thos guys. I want to believe that it is indeed our army, but looking at recent past (leaving Libya and Syria for ripping apart, moving our peacekeepers out of Kosovo, selling advanced weapon systems to rather unfriendly Azerbaycan instead of supporting Armenia) I still don't believe that Putin has balls for doing such things. Looking at the attitude to MVD troops and other law enforcement departments IMHO army does not hurry with help to maidanuts. And yes, formally according to all Ukrainian laws and constitution both government and 'president' are illigetimate. Formally still army superior chief is Yanuk. None of any legal ways of him leaving his duty was performed. They aren't capable of doing something while Yanuk is alive and hadn't left president chair via legal procedures. All they can do is to act like some Lviv or Ternopol MVD troops that took the side of maidan. And this is fully dependent on local commanders, whether they are ready for going against law or not. Well, if I'm not mistaken one of early Geneva conventions prohibited deployment of any weapon systems on aircraft. Well, you all know about WW1 air battles... The world is cruel. Conventions and international laws are used only if it is useful at the particular moment. Sad but true. ---------- Post added at 00:41 ---------- Previous post was at 00:30 ---------- "I won't say for the whole Odessa, whole Odessa is too big"©. Don't speak for the whole world please. 2011 - Libya 2003 - Iraq 2001 - Afghanistan 1999 - Yugoslavia (annexion of Kosovo) 1994 - Invasion of Haiti Early 90's - participation in civil war in Yugoslavia on the side of Croats and Bosniaks 1986 - Libya bombardments 1983 - Grenada 1982 - airstrikes at Syrian army in Lebanon 1960-1970's - Vietnam 1965-1966 - Operation 'Power Pack' Enough?

I don't want to make you sad but even in 'elite' detachments such as VDV or Naval infantry accessories like grips, handguards with rails are still rare. On the other side I've seen rather many of this stuff at the rifles and MGs of those guys. Seems that according to your logic it's a crime only for Russia and countries that are friendly to it. Others are okay about such things. BTW I'm even pleased to see such massive butthurt of some 'falcons' and 'neocon-style' folks. Keep it up. Again I may perform just simple count of conflicts and wars after 1945 that were with direct involvement of 'democracy palladin' and 'bloody commie Russkies'. And the comparison may be not in favor of first one. So I ask you again to calm down falcon rhetorics.

Sorry, France hadn't been involved in OIF indeed, though was one of the latest Libya bombardment campaign leaders. And violation if airspace and attacks on both military and civil facilities is not invasion, yes?

Oh that's usual rumors about Russian spetsnaz hiding near Rada, Russian OMON dressing in Berkut uniforms and attacking civil protesters, Russian paratroopers ready to land in Borispol etc. I've got used to it and try not to run in front of the train. Russian and Ukrainian armed forces have quite many of identical equipment. So I'd like to wait for more evidence. You know, maidanuts were not recognized as official authorities in all Ukraine and somewhere their act about disbanding Berkut hadn't been executed. Latest Russian uniforms you say? It is freely sold at many internet shops, I have some parts of it too:) Russian military vehicles may be either from Ukrainian army/MVD/SBU or even civilian (yes all that trucks may be bought by civilians either directly from manufacturer or written off by some enterprise or military - I could buy Ural or Kamaz written off from Gazprom for about $3000-4000). Ural or Kamaz painted in green does not always belong to some military. Invading a sovereign nation is a crime? Had any Qatari official been prosecuted for attack of Libya? Or maybe US, French, British one for attack of Iraq in 2003...? Please stop all that pathetic words about crimes. Common practice - from protecting navy vessels from attack of torpedo boats to protection of tourists. Rule of strong, nothing more.

They may know that choppers won't attack anybody. Ukrainian General stuff chief had several meetings with both self-defence groups and our fleet personell, so there may be some agreements directly between Ukrainian and our military. You all have seen, there are already some joint patrols of local militia, Berkut and self-defence groups. The same may be between our and Ukrainian military. Our troops may move outside during excercises or some other reasons (after connecting with local military). So formally they can move between different bases and other facilities used by Black sea fleet.

BS, unfortunately. According to MID official statement (link to it was given in Telegraph article), troops were moved within Crimean territory. So this is not 'troops moved to Ukraine' but 'troops stationed in Ukraine moved from point A to point B'. BTW I can't recognize any insignias at choppers, were they Russian or Ukrainian ones.

Shyteload of work and english being not my native language sometimes results to wrong words been written.

Nope. Yulya will have a chance to get president chair only if far-right crew will lose and be moved out. They aren't happy about her being another potential president.

Only if far-right crew will win during struggle between opposition parts.

I hadn't mention houses of her daughter, mom and sister too:) http://ic.pics.livejournal.com/oleglurie_new/45868151/487680/487680_original.jpg (124 kB)

I'd say small territory. It's always easier to clean small room than wide hall.

Google the pics of Yulia's or Krolik's mansions (BTW Yatsenyuk lives several hundred meters from famous Yanuk's Mezhigorye). It's rather hard to see leaders of the opposition better than Yanuk's corruption, moreover many of them were already involved in ruling the country and taken off from the manger. Their 'we are fighting against corrupted regime' should be translated as 'we are fighting for returning ourselves to power because we want that golden WC but pesky Yanuk got it faster than we!!!!1'. Unfortunately I hadn't seen any professional and not connected to any existing oligarch/politic thug clan/nazi group persons that may form really new team and become really new government. BTW the same goes to Russia. Yes, Putin's team is full of corrupt crooks but those who pretend to be an opposition are not better at all, and many of them were already in Duma or government in so calles 'wild 90-s' stealing and selling everything possible (Gaydar, Nemtsov, Misha '2%' Kasyanov etc). And those who may be real alternative are unfortunately too weak for struggle and taking full response for entire country.

It will be a great mistake to give a support to Yanuk. He's just 'vegetable', seen as traitor by both pro- and anti-Russian crews in Ukraine.