ralphwiggum

Now there's two societies well known for their humanity to their fellow man. Let's see Afghanistan was finally going ok, until Soviets tried to meddle in during 80s, and made them all jaded, and Chechens wanted to get away from Soviets and were bombed, so they turn jaded. Ha they are jaded! (because Soviets bombed them)

I absolutely wholeheartedly agree. That not say that there weren't elements of Czech society allied with the Nazi's. So one element equal the whole? Or they knew Soviets were indiscriminantly going to harass them just because they were Germans.

In my opinion the Russian soldiers behaved a lot better than the S.S. and frankly had a lot more reason to behave in this fashion. Revenge was served. How about to Chechens? Afghanistans?

You are just posting things that you cannot make claims to. It has been widely accepted that Czechs were not fond of Nazis, in fact the Nazis had to level a whole village in retaliation to assasination of a SS figure. I guess they were cooperating, right? Perhaps maybe a few wackos joined SS, but that doesn't mean Czech as a whole did.

Again, nice trying

Yes, it does matter. Acting against your own will is different from willingly participating. How many? Too many. I take that you cannot support your claim and show that Czechs were actively supporting Nazis So Russian soldiers who committed less than honorable actions were actively doing it. Side note: When Czechs made Mausers for Nazis, they were not quite accurate. Czechs made the rifles to shoot a bit off. Unfortunately the Israels found that out too when they got the surplus ones.

Yes, it does matter. Acting against your own will is different from willingly participating. How many?

Now that I called out your deliberate attempt to omit some information, you are trying to muddy the issue. No matter how you look SO has been internationally regarded as part of Georgian land. So yes, when Georgians were on their territory, they were on their territory, which includes SO No mate Russia recognises SO as independant. Their population has successfully held two referendums since the ninties on the subject of independance. Hundreds of peopple died in the aftermath fo the first one, and the Russians deployed peacekeepers who able to negotiate a truce. A minority of SO people are of Georgian ethnicity and they all voted against it. Many SO people hold Russian passports. SO has repeatedly asked the world for recognition since Kosovo was recognised as independant from Serbia. It became a territory of Georgia during the creation of the Soviet Union. Here's the problem as I see it. As you mentioned, when Georgia broke away from Soviet Union, SO was part of the deal, and Soviet didn't do much except to send some troops in hopes of getting things calmed down. Now they want to poke at Georgia, so using SO as part of their campaign. So it is in interest of Russia to regard SO as a soverign nation.

Two different regions, both backed by Moscow to agitate Georgia. Maybe on the surface it looks like they are two different incidents, but in fact they are facade of larger conflict underneathe which just came to the surface.

? I'm sorry. When did Czechs invade Soviet? Why after they were taken over by Nazis! So blame the Czechs for something they cannot be held accountable for. Very nice.

Now that I called out your deliberate attempt to omit some information, you are trying to muddy the issue. No matter how you look SO has been internationally regarded as part of Georgian land. So yes, when Georgians were on their territory, they were on their territory, which includes SO

How about the fact that such peacekeepers included Georgian forces too? You want to conveniently omit that? You mean same Abkhazians who are supported by Moscow in order to weaken Georgia? So instead of doing it themselves they use a proxy.

Did you read my post? It was Russian that shot down Georgian UAV, not the other way. and Georgians are stupid?

So when the Czechs and Hungarians didn't want Soviets and communism, it was only fitting that they are crushed by military, right?

This is a planned action from Russia. Anyone remember that a few months ago, Georgian UAV was shot down by Russian fighter? Russia has been looking for excuses to annex that part of Georgia, and sudden "reinforcement" are a good representation of that.

Irrellevant spamming. consider yourself warned.

From my public server playing, 1.14 did great job of eliminating a lot of Desktop cheaters so far.

Can't say much to either of them, but I did have a field day with Lasershot's product a few months ago. I say Dslyecxi did a great job putting those two together. To those who are wondering how it goes, think of playing ARMA or VBS2 with mock rifles. It is fun. From the video provided by General Barron, I'd say VBS2 kicks VCCT's ass.

ok, this now officially ends upbeing really off topic. closing.

So are Chechens. Look what murderous Russians did to them. Yeah same thing - you wouldn't asnwer. Moore is not shot, not in jail. But you said dissidents get shot and killed in US. Moore is definitely a dissident yet after Bowling for Columbine, he is still alive. You are saying that the higher GDP per capita is the richer they are in eneral. However, you mention that mode of production, which Lichtenstein does not have as good as US. US makes cars, planes, other goods that Lichtenstein makes, so it has better mode of production. So you are saying two things that are not compatible which each other. How about this. 10 people in a country who makes 100 each. That is 1000 in GDP. compare that to another country that has 5 people that makes 100 each. Does that means both countries are equal? Certainly not. nominal GDP says different. There is reason why nominal GDP is used. It shows which country has more overall production. When was last time Lichtenstein had much say in international politics? You have no clue about what you're talking about. You're full of wishful thinking. I think wikipedia must dream with me. So you do admit that there are gulags in North Korea that kill dissidents, since Wiki says so....wait you said no. Helms-Burton Act. And the reality says different. I don't see Cuba in any problem with international trading. Cuban cigars are abundant outside of US. USD is not spent in Cuba anymore. They briefly allowed it after the trade crisis after the USSR dissolution. Today they have two currencies, one peso convertible and one standard peso. You're naive if you think that Cuba is centrally planned by one leader. Cuba has a parliament and a government elected by it. If Cuba really doesn't like USD, they woul not even have convertible pesos. It can be used for Euro, but at the same time, Cuba doesn't mind having USD in their pocket. In practice they are the same. There have never been any democracies, just dictatorships. Cuba is a proletarian dictatorship. The proletariat is the majority which means that Cuba per se is a democracy. The US is a bourgeois dictatorship of the capital, also known as "liberal democracy". You contradict yourself right here. In the begining of this argument you claimed that Cuba is a real democracy, now you are saying it's majority dictatorship. Believe it or not US has same system. That suspicously sounds like US system. Unlike Cuba anyone can run. I wrote: So a 50% (say GDP increase for instance) is worse than a 30% boost? Well, if you think so then it isn't a question of mathematics, it's a question of sanity. My point is that a better system does not automatically make a country richer. You asked how Cuba could be poorer when it had a better system. And I showed you that your thought of reasonsing about better system is utterly broken.Let's talk about percentage. from 100 to 150 is 50%. From 1,000,000 to 1,100,000 is 10% which is larger? Sounds like you are describing yourself to me. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki....ursions I wrote: Did you intentionally stop at this one? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chun_Doo-hwan And those before? You're promoting US backed fascism by ignoring it. Did you skip Roh Taewoo? That's odd he was democratically elected. Since you know nothing about history of South Korea, here is what happend. Korean war happend during Rhie Syngman's presidency, and when ended, and there was a short lived parlametary system led by Chang Myun. Then Park chung hee took over via coup. After his assassination, Choi Kyu Ha was the president, then Chun Doo-hwan made another coup, then came the rest. From your link regarding Chun doo hwan, Yeah he is a puppet. So much for giving democracy to people. According to your source: Then there was the major http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russian_financial_crisis After that the oil prices have went up. Soviet production was and is public. But one has to do the maths oneself. Soviet History Wiki: Did you just say that GDP fell by 50% after USSR's collapse? Then that means USSR had GDP of 2,857,000 which is still far less than what they have right now. It's based off of your beloved Wiki and its authority. Demographics of Russia Wiki and what is the life expectancy compared to now? In about 20 years, you will be faced with the fact that although it took some hardhip in the initial phase, moving to capitalism was the right choice. According to you Cuba liberated them so I'm guessing they are sugin Cuban system, which is far superior than anyother, so it is expected that they can take care of themselves far better. However, corruption is non-existent in Cuba, so what happened? And you get he whole picture by not going anywhere? And you just walked into a world of hurt. I traveled to South East asis often, much more than you ever did. I read world affairs and keep up to date with it. That sounds like US in early 90s when they all though Japan would surpass US. and US is still here. No, fascism is no science, it's an ideology. Liberalism and socialism are other ideologies. Marxism is no ideology. Marxism is the political philosophy. No science involved in it. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism What has proletariat to do with that? You don't even know what it is. Have you ever read Marx? No? Yes I have and he sucked. Proletariat has to do with a lot http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marxism Just below regarding Marx's theory of history, So it is about preletariats. And yet now they go BACK to capitalism just like China, Russia, Vietnam and many other did. Is it up to me to disprove the existance of them? You can claim there's a banana orbitting Saturnus. It's impossible for me to disprove such a thing. However, if you claim it you prove it. Same thing with the North Korean concentration camps. Where I mean concentration, and not labour. Go to wiki and search. billybob already did the legwork though. You are just in denial.

Marxism is a scientific theory based on the foundations of economical analysis. It meets all the requirements of being a science. And so is fascism. Where? You fail to bring up any examples. Yet you accuse me of contradicting myself? Read my post again. So far that weakest link has been fixed and is getting stronger. China is turning to capitalism and so is Vietnam and others. Even you didn't know a thing about proletariat until I corrected you. Now you just don't talk about it. Bullshit. Who says that? Your teacher or the CIA? You're letting your fantasy slip. There is no proof, just propaganda. And you can't prove it either. Keep blaming it on the propaganda. And you know South Korea better than anyone? Give me a break you linked Youtube of some small demonstrators and call it a frequent occurence. But then again using your logic, Nazis did not kill jews, but merely imprisoned them. So socialist don't alter photos? Wow that's amazing! You mean the same Nobel prize that you did not like earlier? Funny. Turkey did not allow US troops to go through its borders to North of Iraq in early phase of the war. But I guess fact means nothing to you. Kim Jong il is a dangerous man. He sends armed people to provoke attack in South Korea. So much fo r not being dangerous. Which you have been miserably failing as you r own argument is full of holes.

No, it's illegal to go to Cuba for US-citizens. Moore probably went through Mexico. But, then he still can be charged for breaking the embargo by trading with cubans, eating food etc. I think he got into trouble when the movie was released. Then how the heck did Michael Moore get there? Practically, Moore is still free to do whatever he wants in US right now. He got some criticism, but nothing came out of it. Yes, that's what I've been saying all the time. It's obvious. GDP/Capita means GDP/people. So naturally -people- will affect the ratio. GDP measures total production. That is worthless if you want to measure standards of living. As I said you can have 100 in production and 1 citizen. If you have 10 citizens and 100 in production, the latter case is worse. Because people get much less. That's why GDP/capita is better. In the first case it would be 100, in the second 10. So if you want to compare countries with anything that has to do with GDP, you should use GDP/capita and not GDP. I don't see why it's hard to understand. Then how come Lichtenstein is NOT the #1 world, which by the way has highest GDP/capita? I showed several times why GDP per capita is not the only measure, and nominal GDP is just as good as GDP per capita. You kept changing your story as "GDP is affected by number of people, so GDP/capita is better." Then when I pointed out your flaw, you said "GDP can be affected by other factors not just number of people." Now you are back to CDP/capita is better because of number of people. They generally have to choose between the US and Cuban market. In practice, not really. But in your dreams, yes. US is a bigger market, you can sell more there, generally. A country is not better than another because people want to do business with it. Then Qatar and all those US-backed dictatorships would be the greatest. The system cuba has to offer is a lot better than the american one, that's why Cuba is better. It's more democratic and just. And you can't spend USD in Cuba. contrary to your argument, USD is spent in Cuba. As you said Cuba is so great that their centralized planning by one leader system works, but now you are criticizing Qatar and all those backed by US? No, not at all. I pointed out that there were 15 000 seats and more than 30 000 candidates. That's at least 2 per seat. Political parties don't participate in elections in Cuba. Cuba is a proletarian dictatorship, but it's more democratic than the bourgeois US. LOL so dictatorship is better than democracy. Good grief, so you just admitted that other nations has to follow as Cuban system is better, especially with no choice of alternat party candidates. You don't seem to understand simple logics. If you have starting conditions X1 and X2, then apply system S1 and S2 respectively, System S1 is better than system S2, lets say S1 means a 50% boost while S2 means a 30% boost. Starting condition X1=0.75 (75% of X2) is worse than X2=1. So X1+X1*S1=1.12500 while X2+X2*S2=1.3. Even if the first system is better you get a worse final score. S1 is Cuba, and S2 is the US. Nice try. What makes S1 better than S2? This is NOT a mathematics question. is S1 > for all S2? Nope. then there is no superiority or 'better system' You can't even define S1 and S2, so your 'logic' goes no where. Dissidents in Cuba aren't shot. They are shot in the US though. Kent State, Malcolm X, Marthin Luther King Jr and so on. Sorry shooting was stopped, they just hang them. Keep grasping the straws. You are just assuming that the list of event above is political suppression. Left wing of korean politics is still right wing. More riots and uprisings: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VTPbK6YAF4M http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/April_Revolution That's South Korea for you. South Korea was a military dictatorship backed by the US, until recently. LOL try portraying one small segment of society as whole again? Here is the profile of the last president http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roh_Moo-hyun One before that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Dae_Joong Before that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kim_Young_Sam Wait, isn't Kwangju(Gwangju) the one that you claimed as the uprising in the past? But how come the US led dictator pardoned them? Keep dreaming. US is better democracy than one party system of Cuba. There is a word for those USSR - Failure. Did you? It clearly says that 67% "regret the collapse of the Soviet Union." Life style was a lot worse until just now. GDP fell by over 30%. Collapse of Soviet Union is about disintegration of the union. yup. GDP fell, right? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Economy_of_Russia 1995 - 1,428,500 2000 - 7,305,600 2005 - 21,665,000 Funnier thing is there are hardly any reliable source for USSR's GDP as they refused to take note of it. If the figures to compare are missing, how can you claim it went down? The USSR was a socialist society. Planners were just like everyone else. Or do planners of big companies own the companies? In other words, you just discounted your argument that USSR was a centralized planning society and everything was owned by the country itself. No, Angola got independent from Portugal 1975. The conflict with the west starts after that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angolan_Civil_War South Africans and other capitalist were driven out from Angola and Namibia by Cuban and Angolan forces. And now it's a better place that follow's cuba's footsteps http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Angola So if the Cubans liberated Angola from Western influence, what happened? They are still having problems! How would that work out? I thought I said I visited the USSR? So? You do a trip to selected places and think you got the whole picutre. This is something different. The US is on a big decline. How is it so?

I'm not talking about guerilla operations (civilian initiatives), but bigger uprisings. There is a parallell in the Vietnam war here. The people of the South joined the guerilla and the north when it liberated the south from US puppet fascists and US-influence. The fact that the US was fighting an entire people made them lose the war. But it cost the vietnamese 2 million or more deaths. Seen as the US had nothing there to do, it can be seen a large scale mass murder. The 'Liberation' was just a propaganda they later tried to justify their action. How many US troops were in South Korea before Korean war? It's completely normal if you haven't been allowed to leave the country before. They gave a chance for everyone who wanted to leave the island to do so. And 1% left Cuba. That is MORE than number of people moving from US to Cuba, mind you. Notice that in US if you want to go to Cuba and live there, US government cannot do much. Just look at your ido Michael Moore. He is still walking and talking, not dead. Number of population can skew the GDP/capita? GDP/capita means GDP/population. So naturally GDP/capita has to depend on the population? I think you know how to count people, GDP however is defined by this: GDP = consumption + gross investment + government spending + (exports − imports) As you see there are many other factors. Consumption is not only based on the amount of people you have either for instance. Maybe you do some math, you will realize that GDP/capita = consumption/capita + gross investment/capita + government spending/capita + (exports − imports)/capita So indeed it it affected by number of people. You started the whole GDP/capita is better argument and now that I showed it is no better than nominal GDP, you are trying to say something to refute me but you can't. A consequence of the embargo: "International Sanctions against the Castro Government. Economic embargo, any non-US company that deals economically with Cuba can be subjected to legal action and that company's leadership can be barred from entry into the United States. Sanctions may be applied to non-U.S. companies trading with Cuba. This means that internationally operating companies have to choose between Cuba and the US, which is a much larger market. " Respectable companies that sell medicine to Cuba for instance, got black listed. And they are still around to make money. How can that be? So you admit that US is better than Cuba here? Business people want to do business with US not Cuba. That says something! Even if your embargo idea is true it doesn't matter as tourists from around the world can goto Cuba and spend USD as free as they want. Castro is extremely popular in Cuba and in the rest of South America, and parts of Africa. He has won every election, which doesn't mean he is a dictator. Political parties are not voted upon. People elect individual candidates. Non-party as well as party members. Election where there are only one candidate. If that kind of crap happened here in US you "socialist" would be calling it a dictatorship. But as long as your "uncle Fidel" can do it, it's good. The only candidate that is allowed is the ones who show their "patriotism" i.e. loyalty to communism. There are no other political party than Communist party. Yes, that's extraordinary. Cuban, a third world country has a life expectancy that's higher than that of the super power USA. I heard it's higher than in the US now even. One would "expect" the US to perform better. (And the rest of south america). You mean Cuba, with its so effective system can only do just as good as US, not better? Then there is no support to your argument that the Cuban system will work with US. Furthermore, the "inferior" US system is doing just as well as Cubans! How could this be?!? You should always look at the motives. Who gained the most from it? Was it Castro? Or was it Lyndon B. Johnson, the CIA, and the military-industrial complex? Dissidents in the US get shot, as I showed you in that link. In Cuba they don't. Yes, and there are so sociopaths in this world, right? Looking at motives, Castro had plenty too. Dissidents in Cuba get shot, in US they are yelled at. Look at all the dissidents in US. Are they shot? Nope. So South Korea was no fascist dictatorship? There are huge strikes very often in South Korea, many laws are still from the fascist times: Just made a quick look on google: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/business/1081500.stm http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1996-1997_strikes_in_South_Korea Uprising 1980: http://www.onwar.com/aced/chrono/c1900s/yr80/fskorea1980b.htm http://query.nytimes.com/gst....E948260 http://edition.cnn.com/SPECIALS/2000/korea/story/kwangju/ And that's all from a liberal point of view. http://www.wsws.org/articles/2003/nov2003/kore-n19.shtml Riots, uprisings, strikes are all features of the korean society. Both then and now. You managed to pull 3 examples and call that the norm? I say if that's the logic, then Cuba is a muderous dictatorship as many were fleeing the country in 80s and many more were shot. Maybe you are not reading things correctly, but as I said, last few presidents were leftwings. But I guess that does not fit into your argument of 'fascist state'. Kwangju, while it was an uprising that signified the century is NOT a communist uprising. The same people who did taht ended up as major government figures. And you still call Korea a fascist nation? The strike of 1996 ended and that was it. Thesedays, the unions are looked down by Koreans as they ended up being fat cats themselves. That's what you think. You have no idea why you think that way. But it has to do with where you live. "Two-thirds of Russians miss the Soviet Union and are sorry it is gone" http://www.mail-archive.com/osint@yahoogroups.com/msg02071.html Published by UPI Dec 29 2004 Did you read the article correctly? It asks about fall of the nation, not the life style of the USSR. If the question is rephrased as the life style, I bet the numbers will be different. In a capitalist society the working class owns no means of production. In a socialist society the working class owns all means of production. So you do admit that USSR was not a socialist society as the Central planning and the country owned everything, not individuals. Funny that you should mention it. Cuba actually liberated Angola and Namibia from the US and the then racist US and UK -backed south africa. LOL Angola was under Portugese control! Keep grasping the straws. And while US did not severe its ties with SA all together, it did criticize South Africa without hesitation. Speaking of racist, Stalin did not like Jewish population in USSR too. I wonder why the US isn't mentioned? That's true, the people of Cuba are no proletarians. When proletarians sieze power in a country, that country turns into a dictatorship of the proletariat. Even if the proletariat ceases to exist. Capitalism (Bourg. Dictatorship)-> Prol. Dictatorship (/Socialism) -> Socialism -> Communism Some people see the prol dictatorship and socialism as different things. I prefer to use the word socialism for prol. dictatorship countries as well. Does it look like I'm joking? You're probably one of those ex-soviet russian kids who have no idea of what communism and the USSR was. USSR was something, Russia today is shit. Look at the countries and compare. Even your president agrees it was a big mistake to dissolve the union. LOL keep dreaming. YOU were born after USSR. You didn't see Chernobyl, the long lines for bread and the cold war. You only have fantasy of communism and don't even understand what it is. Your anti-social mind wants to go against what is in power right now. Communism has never existed and can't exist in any countries or states. Yeah that's what they said about 17 years ago while comparing to Japan. and beofre that with USSR and communism. Yet US is still here.

They were all offered to get off the island. Many of them were criminals. 1% of a population is quite normal seen to the rest of the world. 1% of population moving in one moment is NOT normal. If this was 1% of US population moving to Cuba at once, you'd be hailing at this as the proof that Cuban system atrracted people. Heck a few hundred American was representation of Cuba's system. No You started to use it before I did to show that Cuba was better. Are you lying upfront now? In other words, the number of population can skew the GDP/capita, which runs against your argument that it is a better measurement. On top of that now you are changing our story and say that there are other factors. Which is the argument? You are starting to say that GDP/capita is better measurement but yet in #2, even in your example GDP/capita is dependent on population too. So GDP/capita is no better than nominal GDP. And of course there are "other" factors which you cant count on, and did not want to talk about nitially when you brought your Cuba is great argument using GDP/capita. and just what reprisals happened? Do you honetly think that many companies would do business with Cuba if embargo was effective? Cuba trades with other nations, and there is no restriction that works. None of which you can provide because if you do, it breaks your argument that GDP/capita being the better measurement Yes, changed for worse. Ignorant of history that you have no idea of. While there were questionable treatment of workers, it was small at best. US did not ship factories there, but Koreans actually opened up to foreign investments. On top of that you advocated dictatorship since it can work for people better than democracy. Now that Korea is accused of fascist, maybe they fit your argument better, right? Those points doesn't make a country better. Cuba is better because it isn't ruled by a bunch of capitalists. Cuba is ruled by the people, the working class. That shows in Cubas accomplishments. You gave a small handful of areas that Cuba is better and claimed that those make Cuba better than US. I showed you other areas where US accelerates, now you are trying to divert from your original argument. Yeah, working class rules so Castro was a dictator for last few decades, and there are only one political party. In Cuba all have health care. One of the best in the Americas. In the US people a lot of people die because they can't pay. Have you seen "Sicko"? Have you seen reality? The life expectancy is 77.6 in Cuba, while as US is 77.8, making it virtually the same. You claim that people die here in US as result of lack of insurance. Too bad they live just as long as Cuba with its better climate. And we get our money reimbursed, which makes it practically free. Knowledge goes first in US, not in Cuba.(remember, US has more work done and recognized) Let's see he went to Cuba. Maybe Castro did it? Oswald was a loner and outcast from EVERY part of society. Look at how he was treated in USSR. Dissident here in US don't get shot, but in Cuba they disappear. Or executed without telling the family. They were cheap and educated because they were learning a lot of things instead of fooling around. The education zeal of those two nations are really extraordinary. The result was that they figured out a way or two to make things more efficient. And did I mention that the education system there was not free? False. South Korea just elected first conservative president since 1992. Between 1992 and 2008 the presidents were those who did not go along with those in power. However they did not like communism to begin with. The Korean war happened as a result of North Korea's greed. There were very little protest in Korea back then, and as billybob said, North Korea tried to make an excuse that South was attacking them. The whole liberation angle did not come into play after the Korean war because before Korea war, there were little if any US troops(1949) Read the criticism of infant mortality rate again. In US every birth is counted but in other nations it may not until about a week. Infant mortality rate maybe high due to different accounting methods, but standards seems to be better in US because there are a lot more efficient system in US. Democratic means individuals make decisions, not some central government. Small business are the ones who make decisions and small business performance are one of measures of economy. Most Russians DO NOT want the USSR days. USSR failed because of centralized system. Free market came after that and now its good to go. The news paper DID NOT have exact GDP number, but only how many percent int increased. There is a big difference. They get to vote on cadidate from Communist party only. What if you want someone who is not in the party? No way he will get vote. That is NOT democracy. And I saw both which contained little or no substance. Quit being a copy-n-paste and actually read your own source. Except US figures can be verified by other sources and Cuban's figures, not. Now changing words again? You clearly meant that unless oil is involved, no system works. People don't own means of production. Government oes. Remember? You are the one who said that. You also said that Central planning is the key, which I showed you that it was not a democracy. So in other words, there system sucks so much that they have to use two different measurements if what you say is true. But you are clearly wrong and dollars are welcome in Cuba. Marx would have disagreed with you. Marx said profit is what defines capitalism. Since Cuba is making profit it is a capitalist. And means of production is owned by government not people. The national election needs more money, and that doesn't mean same thing as buying votes. If anything, anyone can jump in. Ralph Nader just decided to run. How is that possible? Because democracy works unlike on-party system that Cuba has. And the proof is? When things got bad in Africa they always want US to intervene, not Cuba. That says a lot about it. USSR explited too, and look at how other nations around it are now finally getting over that exploitation. US tries to step away from Africa but likes of you criticize it, and when US steps in get criticized again. Get a grip. In other words, since people in Cuba own means of production(according to you), they ARE NOT PROLETARIAT! LOL! Nope North did. They had open executions and when Korean War started North Koreans actually moved to South. There were very little workers who wanted 'liberation' by the North. When the war broke out they all left to avoid North Koreans killing anyone.

Lying? Mariel Boatlift was a mass movement of Cubans who departed from Cuba's Mariel Harbor for the United States between April 15 and October 31, 1980. I typed in 1990 because I was using numbers above alphabets and pressed one 9 instead of 8. But the simple truth that there were more Cubans leaving Cuba to get to US then Americans trying to Cuba still stands. While compared to population of Cuba of 11 miliion(2007), 125,000 is 1%. 1% of population trying to leave their country is not insignificant. On the contrary, the number of Americans in Cuba is far less, especially compared to population of US which is about 300 million. Because Luxemburg has no free immigration. You can't live there permanently (or sometimes even work) unless you speak that accent of german. GDP alone is not a good measure of an economy at all. You seem to be uneducated. I thought you said your schools were good. GDP per capita is equivalent to GDP per person. So this sentence has no sense: Here's a recap of what happened. 1. You used GDP per capita to show that Cuba had better system. 2. I showed you that it is susceptible to number of population. I suggested that nominal GDP is the one to look at if you want to compare countries. 3. You claimed that Luxemburg has higher GDP per capita, so nominal GDP is not a good measure. You also claimed that higher GDP is result of having higher number of population. 4. To illustrate that population is not the most significant factor, I came up with India's example. As India has 1 billion people, your logic would indicate that India would have bigger nominal GDP than US. However US has more GDP than India. So your argument that fails.Thus the reason for you NOT using GDP is now useless. and now you just dug your own grave for your argument So you just admitted that having good infrastructure, good education increases productivity, not just population alone. This is why US has a large GDP and China has smaller GDP. US has GDP of 13 trillion USD while China has 10.17 trillion USD. According to your previous logic, more population=higher GDP. China has 1.3 billion people, which is about 3-4 times more than US. However, US has more GDP because the other factors such as infrastructure and good education. So once again, your argument that nominal GDP should not be used because it is susceptible to population fails. Embargo on Cuba is effective for US citizens and companies only. All other nations are free to deal with Cuba. That's why Cuban cigars are illegla in Us, but you can get them from Mexico or Canada. So US embargo is only affecting relationship between Cuba and US. Cuba is free to make trades with rest of the world. While Cuban history in 20th century is not a happy one it was NOT a US colony. No matter how you want to depict it, Cubans were not annexed into US territory, and US troops withdrew from Cuba in 1902 exept for lease of Guantanamo bay, and even the Platt Amendment was repealed in 1934. On top of that here's something for you. When US took over in 1902, the infrastructure of Cuba was vastly improved and public health program begin. So US, even though being a big influence on Cuba, was for the interst of Cuban people(and US too). In case of Taiwan and South Korea both were colonies of Japan, and before that under the influence of Chinese. Korea went through a war and that devastated their economy. When you compare economy of South Korea at 1950s and Cuba in the same era Cuba had more than South Korea. Yet 50 years later it turned around. El Salvador, which is usually considered as a thrid-wrold country was not a "US colony" but it has harder time bringing its GDP up. There might be some aspects that US would be lagginf behind, but overall picture suggests that US is still better off than Cuba. If you try to argue that just because Cuba is better than US becuase of a few things, here is some list of things that US excells compared to Cuba. -internet/computer -economy -healthcare options/treatment/development -science -arts -food safety -automobiles -planes -military and there are more that I can go on. If you want to talk about efficiency, US is more efficient than Cuba in many ways. For example, internet commerce allows goods to be bought from longer geographical distances, and infrastructure efficiently delivers it. The production of goods are more efficient where mass production can happen, and still sustain its production. While US still lacks universal health care most people still have access to hospitals, and in case of ER, it is still required that patients be treated. The price for service may be too high, but it is not as bad as you'd think. This is someone who has been to an ER, and seen doctors a few times since then. And believe it or not, I paid every bills that came along. Funny how you try to say Public schools are integral part of US system, and it's free. You are trying to claim that it only goes to elemetary level, but in fact it goes all the way to highschool, and only thing that is not free is college and above. Even so there are thousands of community colleges which are practically free due to low costs, and there are government assistance to students. Well of course California has more universities with its 40 million inhabitants. You're making very strange comparisons. Apart from that opposition is allowed in Cuba. California, being a state of US has more schools that are more reknown than Cuba's natonal University. Each US state has their own state universities and I bet they are just as good if not better than Cuba's. Kennedy was shot by Lee Harvey Oswald on his OWN decision. However you want to believe the simple fact is that it was not a political hit, but Oswald's own search for grandeur. Malcolm X was shot by same blacks that were told that Malcolm Shabazz(Malcolm X's new name by then) was a traitor to blacks. Keep grasping for straws. Cuba doesn't have any other dissidents because the result is death or prison. Here in US you can oppose as much as you want and voice your opinions. Cuba doesn't even allow other political parties. So did Taiwan and South Korea which still exists, unlike USSR. USSR accomplished so much that they abandoned their system and endedup taking capitalism in, right? Infant mortality rate is a part of healthcare system, but not the complete picture. Just because you are good at typing things doesn't mean you are good at all things. The criticism of Cuba's infant mortality rate is that it was not different from pre-Castro years. Also, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki...._trends Read the comparison and its shorcomings on method of collecting data. Central planning has a major problem. It cannot account for every thing. Also it is NOT democratic. Being democratic means that people decide, not central agency. The "miracle" of USSR is now over. It does not exists anymore. While forcing many resources to one sector will achieve some gains, it is offset by the fact that others will suffer. You are constantly bringing up USSR as the miracle that happened, as as such centralized planning is the way to go. So you are comfortable with using USSR as a point to compare how effective centralized planning is, but you don't think that is a fair way to compare with other develpoed nation? By the way USSR and its miracle is gone. Actually it is profitable for the dictators too. By having healthy population, you are able to have more able-bodied men which in turn can be used for whatever purpose you see fit as a dictator. The reason why Cuba's GDP data is not available is because Cuban government doesn't release it and is not allowing others to look at it. Cuba had no problems with giving information to UN about how "sustainable" it is but it does not provide actual GDP data to UN. See the problem? They are withholding it. According to you centralized economy knows everything. How come if they know everything, they don't report it to UN, while most other nations do? Health care system also incurs costs. So it is part of overall calculation. Look at your own post When government spends money on health care system, it goes in to "government spending" The peso might not be calculated into a dollar, but as you said, they can be calculated as Euros, and Euos can be calculated as dollars. So Cuban GDP can be calculated. No communist party is the only party allowed. No alternatives. Those seats yo umentioned are for communist party only, not by different political parties. Capitalism is compatible with democracy. Communism is NOT compatible with democracy because it has the giant centralied planning. WWF is not an economic source. it is about wild life. The concept of sustainable development is an attemp to look at how we can balance the growth of natural resources with use of them. ONly thing it says is that one nation is not using its own natural resources faster than using it. WWF said US and other wealthy nations also have good record So US is just as good as Cuba if not better. did you notice that 1. no third-partyt verification is given 2. the nominal GDP or GDP per capita is not given? In other words, just another selectiec reporting of Cuba's No, wikipedia shows no information. My source shows information for all countries in the world. But you think my source is Cuba-friendly, of all nations. However you didn't look up my source. Because it links to UN-Habitat in turn: "United Nations Human Settlements Programme (UN-HABITAT). 2003. Slums of the World: The face of urban poverty in the new millennium?. Available on-line at: http://www.unhabitat.org/publication/slumreport.pdf Nairobi: UN-HABITAT." The publication: http://www.unhabitat.org/pmss/getPage.asp?page=bookView&book=1124 So UN-Habitat is Cuba aligned? I looked at each source that you provided and I provided my own. Go back to links I provided, and I can show you where in wiki I got my data from. The PDF file above does not go anywhere, and the closest I can find is about their publication which you can buy from the internet, not the actual PDF file. I bet you did not even looked at the link. It's broken. I already fixed the link and looked for PDF file, which you clearly did not. You probably got the link from somewhere and decided to just copy and paste. I'm putting some time and effort to prove my side, but you are clearly not doing it. UN-habitat merely got the numbers from Cuba and used it. There is no telling how accurate that data is. It's like a robber saying he did not steal. Yes, knowledge counts. Us has more Nobel winners,more publications, more investment in academia, and more results. You have dsputed the Nobel prize previously by saying If you want to compare how good an education system is, see the results it gets. US has more results than Cuba. You tried to compare US system with Cuban system and now you try to walk away from that by saying "You got to compare countries in the same league". Nice try. And I pointed out that less than half of it were genuinely connected to people wanting to go Cuba. As soon as Cuba had extradition treaty with Us regarding Hijackers, it went down. The wiki article you linked also mentions that it was extortion attempt. From teh same government that selectively gives out information. While in US they are free to do the tabulation. In other words, all the nations without oil will not work with Cuban system either, since no system matters, right? Then how come Singapore, France, Germany, Taiwan, Japan, South Korea and many more who does not have oil make their system work? Haiti and South American countries don't have oil, so according to yor above statement, no system works for them. So Cuban system is not going to work. (notice that I'm using your logic. So if you disagree with my conclusion you are killing your own logic). As for moving away from Cuba, 1% of population is NOT an insignificant number. Us definitely has more people coming in. And yes they can make fortune in US, but not in Cuba where the nation owns everything. Again, sanctions don't work on rest of the world. Just Cuba and US. Other nations with smaller time frame made themselves better than Cuba. Keep looking for excuses. The largest nation is Russia, which has larger land than US, but still lags behind US in nominal GDP and GDP/capita. In your example, country A is Cuba, country B is US. You just confirmed my argument. It's just not the raw material, but how you use it too. Many developed nations have efficiency/skills to develope raw materials to something useful. Saudi Arabia's GDP/capita is STILL less than US, as well as nominal GDP. The text you bolded means the convertible peso (the one tourists use) is tied to the value of the dollar, nothing less nothing more. The standard peso normal citizens use can't be exchanged for dollars or euros. It isn't convertible. Your original argument was that USD and Euros are useless in Cuba. I showed you that USD is used in Cuba. Converted peso is converted from USD and Euro. The money system of Cuba doesn't have two different pesos. Keep putting your head in sand. As stated above, they have capitalism. Tourism money is capitalism. any action to make money and have profit is capitalism. What kind of production skills? Why isn't Switzerland better than the US? That country at least has a parliament and regular referendums. That's more democratic than the US. Watches, knives, guns, financial institutions. US also has many elections like presidential, congressional(federal and state) and city elections with referendums. So US is democratic. So are you saying that corporates buy the vote from people, or they select who the president will be? Guess upcoming presidential election is useless. Here's a hint to you. You don't know what you are talking about. You are just spewing regurgitated garbage that you have no idea of. uh huh. I guess cuba has been sending money to fight AIDS in Africa more than US?