Othin

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (turms @ Mar. 31 2003,17:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wonder why the Iraqis fired the RPGs at the rear of the tank? Â Do they think there's too much armor everywhere else, so they were just hoping for a disabling shot and got lucky? <span id='postcolor'> I dont think that u can take 2 Abrams out with "some luck" I suspect that they were at-14 kornets.... oh btw 1 Abrams tankcrew has drowned in this war,in Tigris i believe. Will try to dig the article..<span id='postcolor'> I didn't mean to infer that they were lucky shots, I meant that if they were trying to disable the tanks and blew the shit out of them instead, that would be "lucky".

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (RalphWiggum @ Mar. 31 2003,17:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for god fucking sakes stop name calling. if one side throws the bait, don't take it.<span id='postcolor'> Man sucks to be this "one side" character... I wonder why the Iraqis fired the RPGs at the rear of the tank? Do they think there's too much armor everywhere else, so they were just hoping for a disabling shot and got lucky? Also, I've heard that no crew has ever died in an Abrahms during battle (not sure about training etc) in any country that deploys them. Has anyone else heard this?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Warin @ Mar. 31 2003,16:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">So you're saying Chirac dealing with Saddam in the 70's is somehow worse than the Republicans (embodied by Rummy) in the 80's? What's your reasoning? Sides, we all know that Secular Saddam was a far more attractive prospect that the more fundamental religious sorts.<span id='postcolor'> No, I was just illustrating the point that it's not just a black and white issue and that deals were being made with Sadaam as far back as 76 by many in the "western" world. I don't necessarily think that Chirac's, and by proxy France's, dealings were any worse then the United States. But they definately weren't any better. The U.S. provided intelligence, the starter cultures that Iraq wanted for its CBW programs, and acted as an enabler for the conflict with Iran. France armed Iraq conventionally, provided a weapons grade nuclear (nuh*kleee*urr) reactor, helped them build the infrastructure they needed to produce the CBW (along with Germany), and also acted as an enabler for the conflict. I'm not trying to blame anyone though. Though that's not entirely correct, maybe I'm blaming everyone equally that was involved? And I agree, at a point in the past Saddam was considered a lesser evil by those in power at the time. For better or worse some of those in power now think quite the opposite. Is this right? History will judge.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (interstat @ Mar. 31 2003,15:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Rumsfeld shakes hands with Saddam: See the footage How do you do mr Saddam, I'm sure we'll be friends for years to come,  <span id='postcolor'> Someone else beat him there by quite a few years. Alte Intimitäten zwischen Paris

Actually, out of everyone in the administration, Colin Powell is probably the least likely to say or do that sort of thing.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (PFC Mongoose @ Mar. 31 2003,10:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IMG-Stupid Protest Sign </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The anti-war site Indybay.org features this photo of anti-war protesters in San Francisco on March 13, 2003.<span id='postcolor'><span id='postcolor'> Ooooh boy that's the one. Ten minutes alone with them in the fan room is all I'm asking. Plzplzplz Santa, I've been a good sailor this year. Also interesting article DieAlive. That's good info for anyone planning to hitch hike overseas.

I think there is a difference between the public not supporting the war and not supporting the troops. It dosen't bother me that people are protesting against the war at all, it's a good thing as long as it's peaceful. I think the majority of Americans that are protesting against the war aren't protesting against the troops themselves, just what they've been tasked with doing. I don't think it's really even an issue, most people can differentiate between the two sides. Many of the people protesting even have family or friends in the military. There are a few extremists out there of course, I was trying to find a pic of a protesters poster that said "I support our troops shooting their officers". I'd like to have a few words with the person holding that sign.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Mar. 29 2003,20:26)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It's unlikely will will ever find. Keeping track of all the ordance winging its way into Baghdad is nigh on impossible. The current party line, is that it was a Iraqi SAM. If so, and I find it unlikely, the only SAM to have a warhead that big would be a SA2 Guideline (The telephone pole). It's warhead is usually a sizeable HE charge, or a nuclear warhead!, so it would put a nice hole in the ground. Other SAMs tend to have 'smarter' fragmentation warheads (Smaller charge), so couldn't cause the level of destruction that we saw. I think people will be umm'ing and arr'ing about this for a while.<span id='postcolor'> What's interesting about the SAM theory is that the following story broke shortly thereafter. </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">LONDON (Reuters) - Britain said on Saturday the commander of air defense forces in Baghdad had been replaced after Iraqi surface-to-air missiles, aimed at Western warplanes, had missed and fallen back on the Iraqi capital. A spokesman for Prime Minister Tony Blair quoted intelligence reports for the information. U.S. and British officials have suggested stray Iraqi anti-aircraft missiles could have been to blame for explosions in Baghdad which killed scores of civilians this week. Iraq insists Western bombing is responsible.<span id='postcolor'> http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A47288-2003Mar29.html </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">British intelligence sources say Iraq has replaced the commander of air defence forces after Iraqi surface-to-air missiles, aimed at Western warplanes, had missed and fallen back on the Iraqi capital. <span id='postcolor'> http://www.bbc.co.uk Regardless, I think you're right. Unless CENTCOM comes out and tells everyone that it was in fact their munition, it's going to be debated. Guess I'll keep my eyes open for the after action reports.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Badgerboy @ Mar. 29 2003,19:49)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A HARM might not, but an ALARM has a bigger warhead. Did someone mention that they found a parachute nearby as well. As we all know , the ALARM deploys a chute when it is actively seeking emitters (Loiter mode. Flies up to about 50k and points down), when it gets a spike, it cuts the chute, fires its second motor and targets the spike. More likely it was a JDAM that hit the spot that it was targetted at, as Idon't think GR4's are hitting that far into Baghdad We saw how inputted GPS errors nearly blew away an enitre squad in Afghanistan,so no weapon system is infallible. (Human or technical)<span id='postcolor'> I agree that it could have been human error, or technical failure. I'm just looking at it from a BDA perspective. What facts do we have at this point? You have a single blast in a target light neighborhood (though this is supposition, for all we know a Fan Song could have been sitting there an hour earlier). So this leads us to believe that it was either a TLAM or JDAM with incorrectly entered GPS coords or outright technical failure. We also have the comedy option of a GPS jammer working or someone taking their hot pocket out of the microwave at the wrong time. I still don't put any stock into the supposed change of ROE to purposely target civilians, sorry. Now to the actual BDA process. Single explosion in a civilian area. If it was a JDAM it didn't explode on the ground. I highly doubt that they would have a proximity fuze on a JDAM for the type of bombing and targeteering that they're doing, so we know that it was probaby fuzed for either multistory building penetration, or bunker penetration. From all the EO I've seen of the site, you have a small shallow crater. The crater is not only shallow, it's also small, so we know that the JDAM couldn't have J-hooked off of something underneath. The front of the nearby building is destroyed, but not burned or scorched. It's very weird. If it was a JDAM or a TLAM, not only was there a human error or technical failure with the targeting, but there was also a detonation failure of some sort. I'm definately not discounting that it could have been a Coalition munition, but I'm also not discounting that it could have been something else. Maybe even a failed EOD attempt?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (edc @ Mar. 29 2003,17:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Pentagon says all our missiles are accounted for, don't they? And *gulf war syndrome* the *agent orange* pentagon *friendly fire* never lies/covers things up? They at first tried to blame it on Iraqi AA (ludicrous claim really) and now they are saying that they are 'investigating' <span id='postcolor'> The Iraqi AAA could have hit the TLAM causing it to come down prematurely.<span id='postcolor'> If it was a TLAM or JDAM then it must've misfired massively. Â That crater is way to small for a TLAM, and still pretty shallow even for a 1000lb JDAM. Â If they were dropping GPs (which they aren't) then I would say it looks like an air detonation from two colliding with each other. The other thing is that I believe the TLAMS aren't armed until right on their targets. Â That's why the ones that have gone down in Turkey and Saudi didn't explode, they just crashed. Â Would kinetic energy cause that much damage seen in the marketplace? I'm not sure how much damage a HARM might cause if it were to go off course, but maybe it's something along those lines IF it is in fact from the Coalition inventory. Â I don't have enough information to make a decision either way at this point. Edited for clarification

7--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Kegetys @ Mar. 29 2003,177)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">crackers, not hackers.<span id='postcolor'> Is that like Black and proud? EDIT: Actually though, what category does the person or people who cracked Al Jezeera fall under? Pro war hacker/cracker?

Regarding the cut up buses. It's possible that you saw footage of the bus that tried to run into the Bradley (which ran the front end over). I believe there were a few buses and vehicles involved in this incident.

Take it easy bro. Listen up, be careful, and enjoy yourself!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (placebo @ Mar. 27 2003,15:54)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">acronyms<span id='postcolor'> Actually this brings up a good point. If you see an acronym or piece of jargon you're not sure about, please include the sentence it was in. There is a huge difference in meaning even between branches of service.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Munger @ Mar. 27 2003,15:00)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Question: what the heck are those square panel things that seem to be attached all over the US/UK tanks and APC's? They look vaguely like grates, with about four horizontal sections running through them. Are they some kind of sand filters or something? Almost every armoured vehicles has at least one of them randomly stuck on the outside of it. Anyone know? Â Â <span id='postcolor'> Part of a simple IFF system. When seen through thermal sights they give off a distinctive signature.

Once you decide upon one, I'd keep an eye on Pricewatch.com. Â That's where I've bought my last several PC components...

The Naval services always seem to be the repository for historical terms and weird words. Geedunk - Snacks, candy, soda, etc. Or a snack shop or vending machine. You can never have enough geedunk until it's time to inventory. Head - Bathroom. The place you go when Chief starts looking around for things to do. Deck, Overhead, Bulkhead. Floor, roof, wall. You sweep one, dust the other, and repaint the third seemingly every three days. Avast - Stop. You hear this constantly your first few months in. P-Way - Passageway. The Navy revolves around sweeping, mopping, and waxing these. Pollywog or wog - Someone who hasn't crossed the equator yet. This is pretty much a term that means you're available for hazing at said crossing. Shellback - Someone who has already crossed the equator. They like to torture you on said crossing day. Sick Bay - Medical. You go here when you think it's going to be a busy day. Liberty - Sanctioned time away from your ship or command. You're not charged leave for this ususally. Depending on where port call was, you may go straight to medical upon return. That's enough for now. P

Just thought I'd add my "good luck". I'm just a squid, so I can't give you any tips for "real" bootcamp. Definately go with what E6Hotel said and get in Navy Federal when you have the chance. Also, don't get rid of your car if you have one. Chances are you'll be stationed stateside and can get ahold of it later. For your workout routine, once you're confident with running, start with wind sprints. This will help your stamina if you don't have any hills or beaches nearby, and you'll be doing it alot during squad runs. Just listen. Pay attention to what they're telling you. It isn't rocket science and numerous dumbasses have managed to get through before you. They are telling this shit for a reason though so take it onboard. Do you know what your MOS will be? Once again, good luck. Look forward to seeing you out in the fleet.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ Mar. 27 2003,13:04)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Do you think saddam is dead/injured ? I'm starting to think so.Wouldn't he pose with the POW's to show them he 's not dead/injured.<span id='postcolor'> I don't think he's dead. He may be injured, but not overly so. I can't see him posing with the POWs either. IIRC he didn't do it in the last war and there really isn't any reason to.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (tracy_t @ Mar. 27 2003,12:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If everything's fine then WHY THE HELL are the Americans bringing another heavy division over? Oh let me see, to guard the 8000 POWs (what happened to them?) All I can say is "thank God for the Internet" - the truth will out sooner rather than later.<span id='postcolor'> Actually that's not true. Â These troops were slated to be there for the beginning of the war but ended up getting put on hold because of Turkey deciding to not allow Coalition troops through. Their equipment has been on ships in the region for ahwile, but it's just now getting to where they can disembark it and get the troops in. Â It will be interesting to see what they do with these troops, use them to drive the remaining Iraqi forces out of the southern cities, or bring them up to help in Baghdad. EDIT: That's the 4th ID for those of you keeping score.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (E6Hotel @ Mar. 27 2003,08:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">My back-channel with 1st FSSG mortuary affairs platoon puts the USMC KIA as reported. I'll attempt to confirm with "The Smoking Man" when he returns from planting WMD's in Baghdad. Semper Fi<span id='postcolor'> I'm getting the same. All the numbers I'm getting on the Marine (and one Sailor) casualties match up with what's generally being reported on the news. This comes from both Marine contacts and what's being reported "elsewhere". I can't speak to Army/Air Force casualties though. But this conflicts with what most of you would prefer to believe so of course it's just propaganda and lies.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ Mar. 26 2003,08:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">There are no unbiased sources and nobody has the full picture. We just have to accept this and move on. Still, if somebody posted "The Republican Guard today killed 200,000 US troops" - you'd question that, right? Otherwise, it's been a slow day. I guess the sand storm has been preventing any real progress.<span id='postcolor'> LIES Â A storm of sand? Â Preposterous. Â Next thing you'll tell me is that frozen water can fall from the sky. Â I agree though, we won't be able to find an unbiased news source (Anyone see CNN this morning cut the Iraqi briefing off because "the government will disagree with most of what he's saying"). Â My point was that we can all combine this all source info gathering (weeee we're a JIC) into an overall unbiased picture (in a perfect world). In manning news, the 4th Infantry finally got their orders to deploy to the Gulf.

Well, this thread has outlived its utility. The point of this was to post factual all source news updates on the progress of the war. The intent was to try to provide each other with an unbiased full picture of what is going on. When people start coming into the thread and making claims that cannot be proven by sources available to everyone it turns nasty. But I guess it's not about presenting the news as it is, it's trying to make the other "side" eat crow. This thread would have been much more useful if everyone left their opinions and personal bias' out of it, but obviously this is impossible on this forum. Expected, but still unfortunate. At least we have the topic with all the varied news sources in it (thanks to those who posted them).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wires @ Mar. 25 2003,17:57)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Anyone think those Iraqi boats will get back to the Gulf after the war as part of a new Iraqi Navy?<span id='postcolor'> Actually, that's an interesting question. What will happen to frozen Iraqi assets around the world? They can kiss their fighter aircraft that flew to Iran goodbye. Those have already been integrated into the A.F. there. The ships in Italy are paid for as far as I know, so I would say yes. It's going to be important to Iraq and to Coalition forces to stand up the Iraqi Navy as quickly as possible to prevent the harrying of ships in the area. It will be interesting to see how the frozen financial assets are re-integrated into the economy of a post war Iraq. They're going to have to apply it carefully since it will be so unstable in the beginning.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Schoeler @ Mar. 25 2003,16:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">If none of the other Americans have expressed it yet in any of the threads, allow me to be the first. Â Thank you Great Britain and many thanks to the British people for your support. Â You are our oldest and closest friends and we can always count on you to do the right thing, and occassionally to knock some sense into us hotheaded Americans. <span id='postcolor'> I don't think this can be said enough. I've had a blast with every British soldier and airman that I've ever met. Thank you for being our friends and allies. ps cricketisstillweirdkthxbai