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Oligo

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Everything posted by Oligo

  1. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ April 09 2002,14:30)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">IT's not what they did in the past ,but what they can do in the future.<span id='postcolor'> Mebbe you failed to understand my point: From actual experiences on the use of bio weapons in the actual field, results have been obtained, which show that bio weapons are not nearly as effective as predicted by simulations. Hence, bio weapons are probably not as dangerous as painted by the media. This actually makes sense, since it's not like we humans invented the bio weapons. They have been here longer than we have and we as a species have always fought them. Since we are still here, it seems we have won for now. Compare this to lets say nukes and you see the difference (nukes are not natural phenomenom on Earth).
  2. Oligo

    Flight 93

    Ehh, I'd like to point out that AAMs have fragmentation warheads with proximity fuses designed to puncture the engine compartments and fuel tanks of fighter aircraft. These babies blow up when they get close to the target. It is very often reported that the tail end of the missiles just flies onwards after warhead detonation, since the explosion isn't even strong enough to destroy the tail part (housing the engine) of the exploding missile itself! If you shoot an airliner with an AAM, you get an airliner partly punctured with shrapnel. The holes can cause a catastrophic loss of aerodynamics and the plane breaks apart in mid air. Or the plane might just lose an engine and plow into the ground below. A lot of different outcomes are possible if an airliner gets hit by AAMs. By the way, I laughed my ass off, when they shot AMRAAMs and Sidewinders at the UFOs in the movie Independence Day. They might as well have thrown frag hand grenades at the things.
  3. "Regarding the “weakening†of society, most Western societies could say the same. However, I don’t think it’s necessarily a bad thing, as long as there are people willing to sacrifice to provide that blanket of security. That is the warrior’s mission – to protect civilians by keeping barbarians away from the gate." But it's a little different for us. There are only 5 million of Finns and the only 'barbarians' that could be knocking on our gate would come from the east (and I'd call even that scenario completely unlikely). To counter that threat (so our officers claim) we have a conscription army, thus every man needs to be a warrior. Back in WWII, almost every finn had grown up in a rural society, so the physical fitness, skiing skills and fieldcraft of our troops was almost automatically elite. All you needed was weapons skills on top of that. But nowadays, most men have grown up in cities. I heard it in the army enough times: "Eggh! We have to sleep in a tent?! How barbaric..." <sigh> "The incredible determination of Japanese soldiers can be seen in the sample of KIA rates below. These are the numbers of Japanese soldiers KILLED, either by Marines or suicide (per Bushido). These are not “mere†casualties. (I found these figures after poking around on the ‘net for a few minutes. If you find conflicting data, hey, I’m not surprised.)" Are these the same japanese that the russians rolled over in the end of WWII? If so, these same russians didn't roll over us. The question remains: Could the marines have rolled over us? Also remember that your troops were well equipped, whereas our troops had to requisition most of our tanks from the Soviet tank yards among other things. Which BTW reminds me of the finnish sniper who shot a russian tank commander in the head through the commander's view slit. The rest of the crew deserted and finns got the tank. "Your earlier sniper statistics link had some basic data about Gunny Hathcock, but it was just the tip of the iceberg. Did you know that the .50 caliber shot mentioned in your link was made from over 2,500 yards? Remember the scenes in “Sniper†and “Saving Private Ryan†where one sniper shoots the other through his telescopic sight? Those scenes were based on an actual encounter between Gunny Hathcock and a NVA sniper sent specifically to kill him. Let me just say that Gunny Hathcock may not have had the highest body count, but he was as good at his job as anyone. " Ahh, this reminds me of the time Suko Kolkka wasted an enemy sniper sent after him after a running battle (duel) of several days in the no man's land. I'm not claiming that Häyhä and others were best snipers in the world. It's just that funnily enough they still have the most kills.
  4. Oligo

    Mid east

    There seems to be a lot of discussion about bio weapons in here, so I'd better clear some things out. I have heard quite a few briefings by experts on bio weapons, since parts of the research our lab does have gone to the U.S. military for bio weapon detection. (It is quite ironic this research is being done in Finland isn't it?) And all I can say is that the bio weapons have been greatly over-advertised and the fear factor associated with them is way too big. Contrary to popular belief, various terrorist organizations have used bio weapons during history. Also some accidents have happened, which can be used as models of intentional release. Some examples: -In Japan, the cult which used sarin in the subway previously experimented with anthrax. They had good financial backing and professional laboratory environment (plus scientists) for the development of an anthrax bio weapon. They air distributed it in Tokyo (I think) and a few persons got sick. The cult got pissed and turned to sarin. -In U.S., weapons grade anthrax was used and a few people got wasted. -In Russia, a load of weapons grade anthrax spores got released from a bio weapons research facility and hit a town. A few dozen people died. In all of these cases, simulations would have predicted thousands of victims. But in reality, only marginal effect was observed. I think there are some unknown factors in the spread of bio weapons, which have not been accounted for in the simulations. Thus, bio weapons might turn out to be one of the most over-hyped weapons of our time.
  5. Oligo

    Mid east

    What we are missing in these forums is an educated palestinian or an analogous person, who knows the history and situation in Middle East very well. This person would be very useful, because he knows all the standard replies that should be used to counterattack all the arguments presented by Avon and Scout. Then we poor euros could just lean back on our chairs and watch the shell casings mount.
  6. "Let me start by paraphrasing what I said in my first post: It is not my intention to insult other services of my country or any other." I certainly took no insult from your post. Don't mistake me to the flaming morons you find sometimes in this forum. "I don’t think stating battle results or what our previous enemies have said or done constitutes "boasting." If I wanted to brag, I’d post what we say about ourselves." Ok, you weren't boasting, but you were describing glorious battle results in WWII. And I just pointed out that somebody did even better in WWII. But I do believe that the finnish soldier of today is nowhere near where we used to be, because of couple of reasons: Our society has urbanized (most of the men are a bunch of comfort-seeking weaklings) and our current officers have not fought in any actual wars. Also our equipment is antiquated and our tactics have not been honed in conflict for ages. "However, I am reasonably familiar with the Winter War, as some of us Jarheads take the “professional warriors study military history so as not to repeat mistakes, etc. etc. stuff†seriously. Finland’s use of geography and small-unit tactics to break up and then destroy a large part of the invading Soviet force was a brilliant example of unconventional warfare. If I’m not mistaken, some historians think that Finland’s resistance actually convinced Hitler that Germany could successfully invade Russia. But you also need to consider the caliber of the enemy: In ‘39-’40 the Soviet army consisted of conscripted farmboys untrained in Arctic warfare. These soldiers were “led†by an officer corps that had been gutted of creativity and initiative during Stalin’s purges of the 30’s. Pit these troops against the unorthodox tactics and high morale of the Finnish, who were fighting for their national survival. Throw in one of the coldest winters of the century. The end result: A meat grinder, or a target-rich environment, depending on your perspective." It is true that the russians were hopelessly undertrained (finns weren't professional soldiers either). regardless of this, the achievements of our troops in the winter war were still unbelieveable, considering how under-equipped and outnumbered our troops were. In the Continuation War we faced a far better equipped and trained enemy. Still, some of the achievements of our soldiers were downright unbelieveable. "Again, this is not an attempt to slight the Finnish soldiers. Putting up a good fight against 50-to-1 odds is incredible, but strategically speaking, I have a problem accepting a loss as an achievement, especially if you’re attempting to compare it to the USMC’s performance in WWII." You have to consider the 'loss' a little more: In the Winter War, Stalin set out to take Finland in a couple of weeks. After over 100 day of fighting, they had managed to take very little of our land. The war ended and they kept that land, 'just enough land to bury their dead in'. Now let's consider the goals: You stated that the finns were fighting for our nations survival. That goal was achieved with very little of our land lost. Stalin set out to take Finland. That goal was not achieved. Now who lost the war? "Regarding snipers: I’m also curious about your criteria for judging the two Finns as the best snipers in history. It's only my opinion, but I don't think it's realistic to specify anyone as "the best," because environments, enemy skill, equipment, training, and other factors will always make it "apples to oranges."" My criteria was purely the number of kills. With that variable, you can partially compare 'apples to oranges'. Also, both Simo and Suko took out russian snipers, who at least I consider to be very good in their craft (like Zaitsev). Here is an example by Simo: The book describes in detail an incident when Häyhä was hunting a Russian sniper that had killed several Finnish soldiers, among them 3 officers. The Russian belonged to the Red Army's 56 Infantry Division, and was even a Communist Party member. He was equipped with a Mosin-Nagant M91 rifle with a 3x scope. He had made one sure kill that day, and now he was waiting for another target to show itself. The sun was setting, he was tired and rose to his knees. Häyhä, who had been waiting patiently, saw the sun reflecting in the Russian's scope lens. The distance was about 450 meters. Häyhä had been ordered to try to eliminate the Russian sniper, and he did not fail. His bullet struck the Russian in the head, killing him instantly. Häyhä could have used a scope-equipped rifle, but he liked the open sights because he was used to them and he was able to keep his head lower and present a lower profile and target.
  7. Oligo

    Mid east

    The Saudi peace deal was an excellent one. But those deals are never even considered, naturally.
  8. Oligo

    Slang not to term with your international friends

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 05 2002,13:20)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">bah, if it makes me sick Ill sue and make me some money.. Â <span id='postcolor'> You can't. See, no pharmaceutical rules (like approval by FDA) applies to 'herbal products'. Even if these 'natural products' can be as dangerous or even more so than pharmaceuticals. This is one lawsuit you won't win, because the manufacturers of 'natural products' have their asses covered too well.
  9. Oligo

    Slang not to term with your international friends

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Wobble @ April 05 2002,13:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ive graduated to stacker 2 and eating properly.. Â hopefully by this time next year, my arms will be so big I wont be able to wipe my own ass..<span id='postcolor'> LOL! Yeah, that's a definite improvement. Stacker 2 has only two stimulants, a painkiller and a carcinogene: -200mg caffeine to give you some KICK -25mg ephedrine stimulant as seen in Herbal Ecstacy to give you even more KICKKKKK!!! -Aspirin (from willow bark) to kill all that nasty training related pain -Chromium Picolinate which hasn't been proven to do anything except cause chromosomal damage No wonder you're still a little EDGY, Wobble...
  10. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,12:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I thought that CNN would have understood clearly the first time that it's a closed military zone. My heart bleeds borscht for CNN's crew. Jerks. As if we have nothing better to do now.<span id='postcolor'> But you must admit that throwing flashbangs is a far more efficient way of controlling the media than let's say funding pr campaigns.
  11. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,12:56)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't get it because I've been offline for over an hour and I'mlook for the posts that you're quoting.<span id='postcolor'> Awww, it's ok. It wasn't that good a joke anyway. I have to say this has been one of the most fruitless conversations I have ever had, but it has been a lot of fun nevertheless.
  12. Oligo

    Mid east

    Be careful what you hate for you might become it, Gorgi... Soon you'll grow whiskers and a tail.
  13. Oligo

    Mid east

    Too bad you don't get it. Then again, you can be hardly expected to get it. I guess people always become what they hate the most.
  14. Oligo

    Mid east

    No wonder you're putting settlers into the palestinian land. I always thought your main motive was security, but I guess it is not. Lebensraum... hahaha!
  15. Oligo

    Mid east

    LOL
  16. Oligo

    Mid east

    Yeah, nobody fights over land anymore, because populations are anyway concentrated in cities as it is. So it's not like people NEED that much land anymore. But if GOD has promised you the particular land, then it gets more complicated.
  17. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Israeli troops throw stun grenades at journalists April 5, 2002 Posted: 4:34 AM EST (0934 GMT) RAMALLAH, West Bank (CNN) -- Israeli troops on Friday fired stun grenades and rubber-coated bullets at a group of about two dozen journalists waiting for the arrival of U.S. Mideast envoy Anthony Zinni at the compound of Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat. According to CNN's Michael Holmes, two Israeli military jeeps pulled up and -- without warning -- about six stun grenades were thrown into the midst of the journalists by Israeli soldiers. The members of the media were then ordered to leave, Holmes said. A stun grenade detonated under Holmes' foot as he fled the scene. No one was injured in the attack. As the journalists drove off in five armored media vehicles, the soldiers fired rubber-coated bullets at the convoy. Two bullets struck the back of the vehicle being driven by the CNN crew, damaging a rear window. Zinni is due to meet Arafat at his Ramallah headquarters on Friday. There has been heavy Israeli presence surrounding the compound for the past week, since Israel announced it was "isolating" the Palestinian leader in the wake of recent terror attacks. <span id='postcolor'> I thought 'controlling the media' used to mean something else?
  18. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 05 2002,11:47)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">for that matter, neither we were with the Christians.<span id='postcolor'> True.
  19. Oligo

    Mid east

    "do u want the whole history? i've got the time, do u? the fact is that Oslo agreement should've ended the conflict, but, how odd,the palestinian attacks only intesified. how come?" I'm sure the palestinians thought they had good reasons to escalate after Oslo. And I'm sure you had good reasons to build those bloody settlements right under their noses. Now what would have happened if U.S. and britons and french would have started bulldozing parts of West German cities and built settlements there during the occupation that came after WWII? I'm pretty sure that with time, the germans would have become pretty pissed.
  20. Oligo

    Mid east

    But during your wanderings of 2000 years, I doubt you were on kissing terms with the arabs, now were you?
  21. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ April 05 2002,11:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">u got confused man, the egg came before the chicken! the suicide bombers came BEFORE the tanks started rolling thank u very much. actualy they started the main appearence in 1994 soon after the PA came to power. now i wonder why?<span id='postcolor'> Ehh, I thought you people have been fighting for 2000 years now, not since 1994?
  22. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,10:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">It has only strengthened my orginal comparison between the Nazi and Palestinian ideologies. It's time you and many others were enlightened, too, and stopped duping yourselves into false hopes that peace is possible with such people.<span id='postcolor'> Okay, first of all, I'm not at all convinced that peace is possible in the Middle East, I'm just, I don't know, hoping for a miracle?. Peace is very hard to achieve because BOTH the israelis and palestinians are too zealous for peace at the moment. When you say that peace is not possible with such people, I agree but include also israelis to the such people. But your comparison of palestinian and nazi ideologies is a little ridiculous. You're saying that hating any people makes you a nazi or what? Because if you're saying that hating jews makes you a nazi and hating for example the french (or palestinians to that matter) does not make you a nazi, then you should take your head out of the holocaust and realize how ridiculous it is what you're saying. You know, the german nazis persecuted and gassed other people as well, like gypsies. But those poor sods just didn't have the skills to market it to the world.
  23. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,10:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thank G-d most of us here don't make decisive decisions based on your hopes. Their own polls, radio, TV, newspapers, mass rallies all say it.<span id='postcolor'> Awgh. You know, your name should be Stinger or Thorny or Spike instead of Avon.
  24. Oligo

    Mid east

    </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (theavonlady @ April 05 2002,10:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Thank you for your candid opinion. It was most enlightening.<span id='postcolor'> I hope you were enlightened in a positive way. What I was trying to say is (damn words): If one person says: "fucking Jews suck" and the other says: "The zionist conspiracy is claiming it is perfectly legitimate to rape our daughters" then both persons are still just rabid dogs who preach plain hate, the latter one is just using more elaborate words. But not all palestinians are rabid dogs who preach hate. Most of them are just trying to live their life, like most of the israelis. Now if some of these normal people listen to the hate speech and learn to hate, it doesn't mean they believe the twisted conspiracy theories of the preacher using the elaborate words. It just means that they understand the basic message (jews = bad), which is backed up by israeli tanks roaming their streets. Luckily the heads of these normal people can be turned as easily to peace as they were turned to hate. It is only the rabid dogs who will never yield.
  25. Oligo

    Asteroid to hit earth

    I think l33t means 'leet' which is supposed to mean 'elite'. It's something those pimple faced computer geeks use instead of real words. I used it just because it is a stupid shit of a way to speak. Oh yeah, you told that you're going to join the army. Well, good luck in finishing your journal in time. You know, you're supposed to write it while you are doing the work, not afterwards (as if).
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