NavyEEL

Facts: The three Iraqis were involved in preparing an ambush for American forces. An AH-64D Apache crew disposed of all three of them, as well as their vehicles. Okay regardless of whether it was "right" to kill that other man, or whether ground forces should have been brought in, these are the facts. Dispute them all you want, but this is what happened. Now, as far as the role of Apaches and "policing"... it is rather difficult to capture someone when you are in an ATTACK helicopter that has only two seats--both of which are occupied. Since ground forces were nowhere in the area, they could not have come in to capture the men themselves. Why were there no ground forces in the area? Well I still don't have an official answer for that, but my only guess is that it wouldn't seem to smart to send in ground forces to eliminate their own ambush. If they are planning to ambush ground forces, send in aircraft... If they are planning to attack air forces, send in ground forces... etc. It's basic military strategy. And this wasn't a "police" mission... it was an attack mission to eliminate the threat that these men posed to American ground forces. Hence why they used the Apache... the "A" in AH-64 does stand for Attack. The pilots did have a clear objective, and they completed it. It's not like they just decided to kill these men for the hell of it.

NavyEEL, do you have an opinion on the killing of the last wounded man? I have mixed opinions. I fully agree that, as American soldiers (or any soldier for that matter), we have an obligation to help those who are wounded or incapacitated, regardless of what side they are on. Since our primary mission is to serve and protect, I think it only makes sense. Mission scenario: a gunship is tasked with eliminating a threat which is setting up to ambush American ground troops. Two of the men were killed instantly, while a third was "wounded" (we are not sure how severely) prior to being killed. Based on his movements, he could have still posed a threat by arming the mines they were placing. Therefore, I think the Apache crew had no choice but to eliminate him. There were a lot of mixed factors, and you could argue the morality of their actions either way. The fact of the matter is, the crew was given their assignment, they made a choice, and they accomplished their mission. Had they let the man live, and he ended up inflicting casualties on American or coalition troops, would people think differently about how the pilots should have acted? Just something to think about, especially if you know what it is like to be in a combat situation or losed loved ones in war.

Not from a website, nor a news source... source was Apache pilot. No, the story is not embellished, as I'm sure many of you will assume. However, I can't give more information at this time, nor will you be able to find anything about it on news websites (at least, not that I know of). I apologize, as I know it kinda sucks having to trust someone's word without being able to follow up on it yourself, especially since a number of people might be less than honorable... All I can say is that I am a man of honor, and you can either take my word or leave it. Sorry!

Official from the source... the video depicts an AH-64D Apache (hovering at about 900meters) engaging Iraqis who are emplacing an IED (Improvised Explosive Device, i.e. a mine) on a road to support an ambush. The Apache used Forward Looking Infrared and 30mm auto cannon to engage the targets. And THAT is exactly what happened, with as much detail as can be released. As I said before, it is wrong to just make assumptions. Many of you are so quick to post your Anti-American nonsense and assume that we are at fault. You should at least give us a chance, or wait for the full truth to be revealed. American soldiers are not bloodthirsty, cold-hearted killers, nor are we out for world domination as many of you believe. I hope this clears up the situation regarding this incident, but somehow I know it will not. There will still be those who are in doubt, and who will continue to bash the United States and our military simply for the sake of argument. Either way, at least now you know what really happened.

The translation is as follows: Dell is an US based corporation therefore dependant on US legislatives bla bla bla therefore we must ask you the following questions. Are the purchased products going to be used in connection with weapons of mass destruction, nuclear devices, rocket science or biological or chemical weapons. Please tick yes or no! Aehm well.. I am a terorist but I just cant lie...damn it must be in my non-criminal nature. And even if I lie..are they gonna sue me later on because I ticked NO? hell they might give me a hell of a criminal case after my suicide attack! They gonna put my coffin in jail for a lifetime! Â that reminds me of the question you have to answer when filling out forms for different security clearances. Â it asks something to the extent of "have you ever knowingly engaged in activities designed to overthrow the US government by force?" Â well gee, now that i think about it... Â Â i mean come on, do you think that the "bad guys" would answer these questions truthfully anyway? Â it's too bizarre for me.

i don't think it's safe to make any assumptions from this article. we aren't fully aware of the circumstances surrounding the event, and should just leave it at that. the pilots could have been under higher stress than normal, or could have been taking fire earlier in the day from a group similar to the one they gunned down. again, there are so many different variables that it isn't fair to regard the pilots as "cold blooded killers", especially when you don't know them at all. say all you want about waiting until you are threatened before firing, but the way things have been going lately, coalition troops don't always have time to wait. waiting results in suicide bombers or more terrorist attacks. if something looks like a threat, acts like a threat, then chances are you should treat it as a threat.

How backstabbing. How absurd. How...political. Isnt it exciting to read how the fate of a country was being tossed around by two political parties half way across the globe  it will be even more exciting to read about the successes of that country once it is rebuilt, a new government is in place, and modern education systems are up and running.

i like hellfish's idea, and i hope something similar to that will be implemented. i also hope this does not turn into a war on terror type game, although i DO hope it will have modern units as opposed to the vietnam era. the whole war on terror is so real and devastating, and the fact that it is still occuring would make it weird to play a game based on it, especially if able to play as the opfor. i think what made the original flashpoint great is that it was a "what-if" scenario. while based on the cold war, there was never an actual war that broke out between the USSR and the USA, and i think that is why nobody has a problem playing the game. however, when games start becoming real current events that involve real casualties on both sides, i think it gets hard to play them without thinking of the real people who are losing lives. i much rather prefer the "what if" scenarios. besides, it lets you come up with your own story

we definitely landed there. however, i am rather shocked to discover that the moon indeed is NOT made of cheese. who knew?!?

Bush or his staff had nothing to do with this operation. He didn't even know about it until hours after they had nabbed Saddam. It was probably the 4th infantry divisions soldiers playing OFP in their spare time. Â bush, being the CIC, WAS involved in this operation. it's nice how you turn everything, even a topic about the similarity between a game and a real-world operation, into bush bashing... but anyway, that is indeed quite a coincidence that the operations have the same name... maybe OFP is more popular than we thought? now if you start seeing on the news some reports of their latest plan, called Operation Flashpoint, then you know something weird is really going on!

i'd say the odds are less than 1/100,000 as far as parachute failure goes. now injury due to a poor landing or rough terrain is a different story... but the chances of a parachute malfuncationing or, God forbid, failing are VERY slim.

You'll have to explain something to me. Now I fully understand about feeling gratitude to those that that defended your country in its hour of need. I don't however understand the automatic gratitude that you Americans seem to have to all ex-soldiers - no matter what they faught for and what they achieved. For instance Vietnam where they shot up a remote country, killed many civilians, got killed by the lot and ran off with the tail between their legs. Now I'm aware that it wasn't the individual soldiers' fault, but not blaming them hardly equals to feeling gratitude. Am I for instance by American rules supposed to feel gratitude to for instance those that fought Sweden's last war with the Russians - a war that we started and lost - and ended up losing Finland. Â Or why not take it to a bit more extreme point: Are modern day Germans supposed to be grateful to the Nazi butchers that killed millions and ultimately destroyed Germany as well? This is not meant as criticism - I'm just trying to figure out a part of your culture that seems very strange to me. We honor them for sacrificing and serving their country. Regardless of what the nation was trying to achieve, we are honoring the courage and selfless service displayed by our veterans.

I'm 18 and in my first year at the US Military Academy at West Point. I plan on branching either Aviation or Infantry, but that's a long way away. Right now I'm just concentrating on making it through the next four years.

Amen to that.

i have a Palm Tungsten T and it works great. it offers note taking, a calendar, bluetooth services, and other handy features such as portable word, excel, and powerpoint. i haven't tried any other portable devices, so i can't comment on them, but i can strongly recommend the palm tungsten--you wouldn't be disappointed with one.

120min for one kill...? Not going anywhere for a while? Grab a Snickers!

How much do you pay for that, where do you live, whats the isp, whats the website, what is the connection called ??? How much do you pay for that Free, unless you count military service as payment where do you live West Point, NY (USA) whats the isp US Army whats the website www.usma.edu what is the connection called i dont know, but it's insanely fast

i agree. in fact, i used this event on an essay i wrote a few weeks ago about people being unaware of the news. it's not that China's sending an astronaut into space is not a significant achievement. far from it, in fact. it's just that the world has become so accustomed to seeing american and russian astronauts go into space on a regular basis that they do not think much of china doing the same.

<-- 1.0 Gbps Ahh, how sweet it is I can't even imagine 5 Gbps though... that's just crazy.

awesome picture, Mr. Burns!!!

and you also know their reputation for success

it is indeed an EOD robot with a high pressure water cannon. i can't remember the exact name for this particular robot, but it is controlled via a remote and video camera inside the HMMWV. it has an arm as well as a high pressure cannon. when fired, the cannon shoots water at such a high speed that it rips through whatever material it is aimed at, thus destroying the bomb.

what kind of connection do you have ? i got an XDSL Connection at 1024/256 kb/s and i download between 60 and 90 kb/s depends on the server 15-60 MB/sec average d/l rate here, providing the server i d/l from is relatively fast but that's off topic, so anyway... excellent work, BAS. this truly hit me by surprise--i wasn't expecting you all to be working on an island of such quality, especially right after you finished the Blackhawks. as always, this addon looks like it will "raise the bar" in yet another addon category. keep up the great work, and i look forward to flying your helicopters around the cities! (don't you guys EVER sleep???)

why not just wait til ofp2?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Sgt. Milkman @ 01 May 2003,03:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Because we westerners sadley don't give a crap about tragic, horrible events unless they involve us. The odd thing about that is that there are americans on those oil rigs.<span id='postcolor'> we don't choose what page of the news a certain article is on... the reporters and news companies do. if you wan't to learn what's going on in the world, read more than just the headlines!