Longinius

Muahaha...I am a 'suit' myself so why should I resist this New World Order? It happens to suit me just fine. And yeah, the embargo against Iraq IS causing thousands of deaths, mainly to kids. I think its some 600 000 + dead now. As for the pope causing AIDS, yes, a bit far fetched. But he isn't exactly helping in stopping it. But that's another story all together. And a small comment to Wobble. About this "never been to EU before." Saying something like that, using 'before', means you think you are there at that point in time. Like if I visit the US and talk to someone, I might say "No, I have never been to the US before." If I wanted to say to someone in Denmark that I have never been in the US, I'd say "No, I have never been in the US." I wouldn't use 'before' in that sentence because I have not been to the US and I am not currently in the US.

"Protective armor on the Black Hawk can withstand hits from 23mm shells. " From http://www.fas.org/man/dod-101/sys/ac/uh-60.htm#black Wouldn't that mean it stops small arms fire (5.56 and 7.62)?

Ofcourse there can be a spoiler. If you have not read the book or know much about what happened, I could spoil the experience for you in many ways. I think most people know about what happened; choppers went down, people got killed. But there are still many things they would not know until they saw the movie. Besides, there are also scenes that are inaccurate as in how they relate to how it actually went down, so even if you read the book I am sure I could reveal stuff from the movie you would not know or expect. Thus I went for the "safe rather than sorry" approach and added a spoiler warning.

Warning, Spoiler. Do not read if you have not seen the movie. Ok, I have one question for those of you that have seen the movie and a) read the book, b) were there yourself or c) have found out somehow else. Towards the end of the movie, some of the Rangers and Deltas have to move out on foot. After a while, the vehicles pull away and the soldiers are left to run without the cover of the APC's and what not. Did that actually happen? Cause that seems like a major blunder to me...

For an organisation their own government claims not exists, there sure is a lot of information...

"they are not admitted to exist by the gov" Uhm, why is the government denying it? Just so they can look stupid?

Yeah, and Kustjägarna will clean house with the frogmen

"how can you rape a group of women and then throw them into a deep water-reservoir and let them slowly drown? How can you possibly do that? together with all your camerades, laughing and then heading towards the next village... where the same job has to be done too." Humans are capable of a great many things. Some are quite disturbing. We are a fucked up species.

Yeah, but if he had won he wouldn't be in such trouble right now.

Would that apply only to the loser of a conflict or a winner aswell if they had comitted warcrimes? The only mistake Slobo made was losing...

"Chairman Levin however, explained that Italy was a U.S. ally, and that intervention is usually in response to a specific threat. "OK, what about Arulco?" interrupted Tyler Boone, a senior at Bellevue High School in Wisconsin. "That's a country in Jagged Alliance 2 run by the evil Queen Deidranna. I'm totally familiar with that place. She's a major threat." "Jagged...?" said Levin. "Alliance. It's a computer game." "Well, no," Levin answered. "We can't attack a fictional country." "Yeah right," Boone mumbled. "Like Grenada was real."" LOL

According to Swedish media, the person(s) killed by the Predator attack a few days ago were not Al Quaida members. They were farmers. The reason the missile was fired was because one of the men was taller than average and had a clear leadership attitude. Jesus christ, every group has a leader. There are many people taller than average. The US gonna kill everyone of them, just in case? I honestly feel that being above average in length and having a leadership position does not automatically make you Bin Ladin. Or am I wrong? If so, remind me not to sit next to my boss during our future meetings. Who knows WHAT might come flying through the windows...

Looking at the map it does seem quite odd. But it is not impossible that it has happened (we might have flawed facts on the matter, making it hard to determine exact times and distances). I guess time will tell what really happened.

"It wouldent suprise me if mir and his buddies stepped on a landmine and got killed (hell the whole area is littered with them)... think about it.. the villagers say THEY have the bodies.. yet NATO says they have the remains.." If the villagers took the bodies, all that NATO would have would be remains. "the villagers say one of the people was all blown up and that one looked like he had lived a while.. yet NATO says they were blown to smitherenes and remains were all that was left.." Yes, but NATO would not really know that. They did not get there until much, much later. Yes, they saw through surveillance equipment, but two bodies blown to bits and one guy possibly alive...they might easily have discarded him as dead. "the villagers themselves say the guy WAS NOT tall and looked nothing Like bin-laden." One was a bit taller than the other two. By definition, making him of above average length. "also remember that the place is near that terrorist camp.. the back when USSR was there the camps were ringed with mines to proven soviet ground forces from raiding them it all makes alot more sense than the US blowing up a buch of farmers just becasue one of them was tall. " I disagree. These guys had lived there for a long time, they had grown up there. They would know where the russian mine fields were. Al Qaida would also have marked or removed much of the mines. There would be safe trails to travel. I also doubt a mine would take out all three at once like that. It is quite unlikely that they step on a mine at the same time as the US attack a bunch of people in the neighbourhood. Why can't you ever admit that the US and or Nato occasionally fuck up Wobble? They do that you know. They are not perfect. They do shitty things sometimes. They mess up. They do things that are pretty stupid. Deal with it, it happens. NATO is not the worlds Messia. USA is not our God. They are organisations and groups of men, and those men are like every other man on the earth.

Well, this WAS the US. And there were more then two people who talked to the journalists The villagers collected the bodies. The US collected the remains. That might be why the US have to do DNA tests. They only have a few lumps of flesh, an arm and half an eye. Living in Al Qaida buildings is not smart however, I agree on that. But, stupidity is not a crime with the death penalty sentence.

Wobble, check the link to the washingtonpost I edited in. "and people have been disapperaing, getting blown to bits and attacked there for many many years.. were these people who said it was them actually SEE them get blown up.. or did they just leave and never come back?? for that is not uncommin at all there.." They retrieved the bodies and buried them. "seeing as how the word "remains" was used insted of bodies would kinda makes me thinkt they were pretty messed up.. plus considering they were a group of people hit by a hellfire missle.. hellfires are made to kill tanks... quite a big bang.. and are very accurate.. it probably exploded right at their feet." They retrieved the bodies and buried them. "all carrying guns.. hell I dunno.. well armed is differednt people.. but you dont need a rifle to work a crop." Nearly every man in afghanistan owns a weapon. They are probably carrying it with them as soon as they leave their village. "well.. do people farm in al-queda cave complexes these days" No, but they DO gather scrap metal which aparantly sells for a good price. "there is more reason to believe they were al-queda/taleban than to not to.. they were armed, and they were leaving a place known to inhabited by taleban and al-queda..." So? "if indeed they were farmers.. they sure went out of their way to appear they werent.." I disagree. They were dressed as always, doing their work, as always. "that thing was sent out for a reason.. somebody know there was somebody of military value and sent that thing over there.. predators dont just wander around aimlessley...." No, they patrol. They patrol suspected areas. But not everyone in a suspected area is a terrorist. Or maybe they are, according to some. "so they probably got intel.. and then these guys that matched what the intel said came out of a cave that the intel said had alqueda/taleban in it.. they watched these people long enough for people to analize their gestures and how they acted, the built up a profile and compared it to Bin-laden and THEN fired.." Doubtful. I think they saw an opportunity to MAYBE kill an Al Qaida leader and they took it. Taking time to analyze and compare would have allowed whoever it was to get away. "they did alot of homework before deciding to fire.. " How do YOU know that? Because they said so? Please, what should they say? "also you say so what if they had guns.. thats my point.. thats a dangerous place over there.. people get shot every day.. bad shit happens ALOT.. so just because the US is somewhere in your country and your husband/broter.. whatever vanishes.. doesent mean the US killed him." No, but when someone sees it and you find the body, its a pretty good indication. "and that website looks more like a magazine than a news orginization. " Might be because it is the website of a news magazine...

Link: http://www.aftonbladet.se/vss/nyheter/story/0,2789,131017,00.html Original Source: http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A60213-2002Feb11.html "so.. let me get this straight..  supposidly the Sweeds not only know it was farmers.. but they know the name of the tallest one?" Even the Afghani people have relatives, family and friends. Even they miss their own when they get killed. Why wouldn't an Afghani wife know when her husband was blown to bits, for example. "its funny how the guys were so blown to bits that only remains were recovered and need to be tested to figure it out the identy of them.." Noone said they were tested to figure out who they were. They are to be tested to CONFIRM who they were. As in, compare to other known DNA examples to find a match. Just in case. "yeeaaa   what did they do go to the village "gorbaz" which was probably the nearest one to the CAVE these people were seen coming out of. and ask "is anyone missing" and they said "yea a tall guy named Mir".. and assume that was the guy that was blown up??" I don't know, I wasn't there. But why wouldn't that work? "the facts remain..  they were well armed and leaving a cave complex that NATO knew had or was being used by al-queda.." Define well armed. "if it was indeed "Mir Ahmed" then was was no farmer... at least.. that wasnt his only occupation." Why not?

"B.S. nobody yet knows exactly who they were, DNA testing is about to be done." Well, his name was Mir Ahmad, from the village of Gorboz. Compare "Mir Ahmad" to "Bin Ladin"...doesn't quite match. "regardless, nobody knows exactley who it was.. including the Swedish media.. you think they have better intellegence than the NATO and US forces who are trying to track him down and that are corrdnating all this stuff??.... you think a single news orginazation has better intel than several world power militaries?" No, they don't know more than NATO. However, they are more likely to publically announce what they know. And, they are also likely to point out flaws in NATO operations. "If I remember correctly it was also the Swedish media that *confirmed* that the taleban had shot down 2 US fighter jets.. I think those poor folks are just prinitng every "lead" they get and presenting it as fact.. very irresponsable. " They never confirmed, they reported sources from Afghanistan had claimed this to happen. CNN has published / acted on information that contained errors, as has NATO. As has CIA, as has US military intelligence.

Weekend War Unlike L24A I only have weekend warrior stories to tell. Some of them can however be just as fun as any other story. I remember one time our Homeguard unit was on exercise and we had been divided into two units. We were to conduct warfare against eachother, which seemed quite appealing to us. In addition there was a B-Unit, instructors waging war on both of us. My squad gets the order to set up a vehicle ambush in the woods, near a storage building. It was about 10 kilometers from our base camp and we set off before first light. For a couple of hours we stumbled through pitch dark woodland, tripping on fallen trees, branches and holes in the ground. Eventually we reach the ambush site, at the storage building near a fixed fieldbase (finished foxholes, trenches etc). Between the fieldbase and the ambush site was a narrow trail of about 200 - 300 meters. We came in from this direction, crossed the base and approach the site on a line. As we closed, me and our squadleader went up ahead to recon. We snuck around the building and the road leading to it for a while, made a plan we thought would work and headed back. The squad leader briefed the others and we krept up to the edge of the trees. I ran out and pulled a fallen tree trunk across the road, behind the building. Our squad was placed on a arch along the road, with most of our automatic weapons away from the roadblock. The plan was to basically shoot the shit out of the vehicle(s) when the time came. I was closest to the roadblock, out on the right flank. Time went by, nothing happened. We started to get slack, pulled out some cookies and stuff and had a merry old time in the shade of the trees. Suddenly, we hear an approaching car. Everyone gets ready, the woods turn dead silent as everyone waits. The car gets closer, but I cant see it, the building is in the way. It rounds the corner and sees the roadblock, the driver slams the breaks and tries to put in reverse. We open up. Some ten guys pound the car with their AR's, SMG's and long barrel Mausers. It was a hell of a gunfight....well, atleast for our side. One clip later of my G3 the squad leader yells "Pull back! Regroup ASA1". I turn and start running through the dense brush, cutting across towards the narrow trail to the fixed base. I see three guys ahead of me, running full speed. Then I hear someone say "What da fu..." followed by full auto fire. I throw myself to the side of the trail as guns go off in front and behind. I see my mates on the trail, ducking or falling. More guns open up. "Shit!" I think. Knowing the area pretty well I run away from the trail and then head for the field base and then back towards the trail. I was hoping to come out behind whatever it was that had ambushed our little ambush. I enter the trail behind the 2nd squad, busy pounding my guys to pieces. Then, silence. I hear shouts, I know the voices to be those of the enemy squad...and I hear dogs. They are searching for survivors. I haul ass towards the fieldbase and throw myself in one of the trenches. Sitting there is my squad leader, grinning! "One hell of a fight, eh?". I chuckle and ask him how the fuck he made it out, being one of the guys that was ahead of me. Turns out he had been in front when colliding with the second team who had accidently stumbled on our retreat. My squad leader, realising he was in a bad position, didnt even bother to open fire. He had yelled "Collision! Cover!" and dove into the bushes. The second guy, being a rookie, had no idea what to do. So he got "hit" and went down. Sitting there, in the trench, are the only two survivors of our grand ambush. Hardly any ammo left, with dogs and a hostile squad close by. What can you do, but run? So we ran. We ran all the way back to base. When the others came back, transported on a truck, we were allready having dinner. Ah, the luxury of being a survivor : )

"His contacts in the military concur that the movie "Black Hawk Down" is utter rubbish in terms of its representation of the situation funny that every single military person both US and abroad that know about what happened and have seen the movie says that it very much sticks to the events in an almost documentery fasion.. I wander what his "contact" is.. a majic 8 ball perhaps?" In all honesty I think that refers to the events that went down before the Black Hawk Down incident, and not necesserily only the events during the fighting.

Foxer, I doubt helicopters blowing off tin roofs is enough motivation for children and women to run straight in to gunfire.

Allright. Next question, why did hordes of civilians rush in to try and take out the Americans if indeed the Americans were doing good deeds? I mean, there was not only militia men attacking them, there were women and children to. Did they come for the soldiers fieldrations or what?

Wobble, since you seem to know, why did the warlords want to starve out their own people?

Its like really, really fake to. The original version is better, where the US radio man first explains that they are an aircraft carrier with a fleet of ships surrounding them. It WOULD be cool if it had really happened.

CIA might have taken out Bin Laden yesterday, using a Predator missile launched from a spy drone. They fire the missile at a group of people believed to be high ranking Al Queda leaders. They killed atleast one. They think this possible, might be Bin ladin. Because the description fits... Uhm, not to knock the CIA, but, wouldn't quite a lot of Al Queda people fit the general description? Beard, turban, AK-47, smug smile, dirty...