Iroquois Pliskin

I'd say flashlight is not life-death sensitive, though it could be mapped to a nearby key (for example:B key, if we move binocs/rangefinder to say, number row key 6)* (*Just thought to myself, binocs stay at B, flashlight, IR laser goes to 6, heh.:) ), while accessing grenades, under barrel grenade launchers, AT launchers (often milliseconds count against that "Surprise, T-90!"), sidearms in CQB, smoke grenades - that's very life-death sensitive. Other case is Ease of Use and streamlined gameplay with added efficiency of being able to cover more space/environment: mines, satchels, other nasty stuff which has tedious repetitive actions. ---------- Post added at 10:37 ---------- Previous post was at 10:34 ---------- 100% true, there's no reason NOT to do it. Solution already has been found, all it takes is to create separate weapon classes, which would correspond to respective 0-9 key maps (or any other keys - fully customizable!), once the weapon/gadget is placed into your gear, unless that already has been done.

I don't care and am impartial to whatever solutions you guys come up with, but do solve the following: "Skipping the grenade launcher by accident and then you'd have to go through it again -> Grenades -> Smoke grenades -> Satchels -> Semi/single -> Burst/full -> M203/GP-25." I'm betting there's going to be wheel reinvention much like the same way BIS had done with the scroll lists and F key due to silly AI command menu taking up 10 of my keys. ---------- Post added at 10:14 ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 ---------- If you agree, then I can conjure up a layout that will work 100 out of 100 times, but keep up the hysteria peeps. :p ---------- Post added at 10:17 ---------- Previous post was at 10:14 ---------- So you want to place weaponry on the rose wheel, which 1) obstructs view in some way; 2) disengages controls COMPLETELY; 3) needs three times as many actions to accomplish the same thing what a single number row key would have done. This is the definition of wheel re-invention. (Pun intended, ROFL :icon_mrgreen:) ---------- Post added at 10:21 ---------- Previous post was at 10:17 ---------- Why would you take it off the keyboard, which has 103 plus keys and load the mouse with redundant functions? I don't think you fully understand the value of the number row keys in FPS. ---------- Post added at 10:23 ---------- Previous post was at 10:21 ---------- So to summarise: 1) You have one person insisting for weaponry selection to be on a radial wheel with mouse selection; 2) One person with demagogic arguments, who is completely satisfied with scroll lists; 3) A group of sane people, who would be comfortable with number row keys, seeing as they are the only logical option. Splendid.

Here we go again: simply compelling arguments, scroll lists for the win et cetera, et cetera. Have you ever played the Classics? Taking fingers off WSAD was never an option that's why Quake(s) are still as competitive as they were 15 years ago: whenever you're using the 0-9 number row keys to select weaponry, there's at least 3 of your fingers present on WSAD, if you're reaching for number 3 key, you're still in full control of WSA, right strafe - D key is "unavailable" for a few milliseconds, while you tap the weapon selection key mere millimetres away! I'm dissapoint. :( I don't think you know what reinventing the wheel would be in this case - it certainly isn't the number row weapons selection, but do provide an alternative to the following: "skipping the grenade launcher by accident and then you'd have to go through it again -> Grenades -> Smoke grenades -> Satchels -> Semi/single -> Burst/full -> M203/GP-25." There's no argument against. Try again.

Even if everything remains the way it currently is, I, and many other enthusiasts will stay no matter what, but why not bank on the publicity generated by DayZ? http://arma2.swec.se/server/list For you see, DayZ is popular currently due to novelty and most people playing that are not prior ArmA players, otherwise why didn't we have 100 full 64 player TvT/Warfare servers running a year ago? They may like DayZ, but if you point them to ArmA II, they will not adapt to the clunky-ness in a competitive environment, where you have to fight. By the way, BF BC2, and BF 3 presumably, have the under barrel grenade launchers mapped to number 3 key - works quite well. In ArmA, I was always forced to have my primary weapon set to either Burst or Full in order to access the M203/GP-25 with the F key in a manner, which wouldn't see me dead due the mechanic being so slow and clumsy - oftentimes, I'd accidentally skip the grenade launcher and then you'd have to go through it again -> Grenades -> Smoke grenades -> Satchels -> Semi/single -> Burst/full -> M203/GP-25.

You don't have to look at the keyboard with the number row keys, and I'm not here to invent the bicycle, but if we're going to see scroll lists in PvP again, you'll see empty servers.

True. By the way, to the opponents of weapon/gadget quick-swap via 0-9 number row keys, saying that implementing this will turn ArmA into an "arcade": there's a reason why tactical vests were developed, so that you wouldn't have to shuffle through the grocery bag, which is the scroll list! BrHptICpa7M CQB dynamics would change, in certain cases on the field the range of engagements would increase, because you wouldn't want the enemy to close in on you to utilise his gear effectively up-close, be it grenades, anti-personnel RPGs, or secondary firearms.

But to be objective you need to select the most optimum configuration, knowing that there won't be any duplication of systems, with BIS being a small company and all. So the rest of the industry has it wrong since 1996? The only reason you don't have weapon selection on number row is due to the AI command menu, which is useless in PVP, online Co-Op, Solo missions. Now we have to wait for Christmas. :)

You'd rather perform three actions instead of one to select a weapon in the heat of the battle? :) Open rose menu -> mouse over -> click, or maybe even go through some "directories" first vs. one key press. I know which I'd pick. Really? So the weapons/gadget selection via the antiquated scroll list and grenades on the F key is not the most pressing problem? Let's be objective here and say that AI command rose menu isn't the top priority, basic gameplay is. As long as weapons are given default key priority to the "crap command menu", if no units are selected!

What happens if I have an Action rose open and select a unit? Does the menu collapse, switch over to AI command rose? Weapon selection is distinctly separate thing, which should be done only on the number row keys and it has nothing to do with radial menu, I thought I was clear on that. Rose is for all Actions (personal, self-action, interaction with doors, ladders - anything that the world has). That's the premise of this thread: removing weaponry from the scroll list and relocating them to dedicated number keys as industry's standard, thus freeing up the scroll list and being able to revamp it further into something like a rose menu. See Weapons-Command problem 1. True, can't judge the feasibility, till you've personally experienced it in this case. Weapon selection on 0-9 not feasible? Are we going to be left with the same crap menu, which takes up TEN of my keys, when I don't have an AI squad under my command? I'm dissapoint. :(

Wait, so we take the mechanics of auto-toggle via unit selection F1-F12 keys, map the number 0-9 row keys to weapons selection, then create a rose-radial wheel, place Actions onto it, then make it toggle via the same F1-F12 keys to switch to AI commands on the same rose wheel? I like it. :D Convoluted, but nice. (>°•°)>© you deserve a cookie. Let's take AI command out of the question for a second: A single player, standing in-game, no other units present - he must be able to flawlessly perform two vital functions: 1) Organise and effectively use his equipment/weapons; 2) Interact with himself (ooh) and the world via Actions. If we add AI units to his squad we get "advanced" feature of the game: 3) AI command. Twelve is too many to make text readable in my opinion, besides you wanted to have a uniform, consolidated interface yourself. :) If they do port Commands and Actions onto a single radial wheel, they could leave out a Southern-most partition for "Up/Down" folder feature to cycle between levels of the same octagon - there's no need to use left/right mouse button, which presents a safety hazard. <- On second thought, single middle mouse button depress -> mouse swipe -> MMB release radial menu mechanics doesn't work with AI commands due to the number of folders, you have to input it via left MB. :/ That's why I don't like AI commands on limited radial wheel, when we can already operate them seamlessly via 0-9 number row keys, though left & right clicking through such a rose menu would work - but then again, that was done in Rainbow Six Raven Shield and it is kind of crap - too many folders, you stand there clicking, the whole point of a radial menu in my opinion is to have 1 key depress + mouse swipe to activate something in milliseconds! R6 RS squad command: http://www.sztab.com/tapety/galeria/tom-clancy-rainbow-six-3-raven-shield-3.jpg I'd rather have a coherent interface out the box: 0-9 for weapons selection, unit keys toggle this to command mode and a separate radial Action and/or AI command wheel.

As you may have noticed, the ArmA user base has expanded since DayZ and these people have certain expectations as to the fluidity of gameplay. I haven't complained about the user interface, because ArmA is one of a kind - a monopoly on realistic military simulation, but don't pretend that it is not clunky as hell. Commands or Actions? Because there a lot of AI commands with sub-directories, and we have given radial-style menu thought, turns out not really viable, unless you drastically reduce their number. For Actions, you have 5-6 of them at any one time - they can be fitted onto a single octagon with 8 partitions. Duplicating systems is fine, but are they going to do it? I know for a fact that a rose Action menu would fully replace the scroll list, though with AI command that's not clear cut. Better focus on Weapons selection problem, AI can wait.

Can't augment a scroll list -> Drop-down side scroll lists ala ACE 2? Not much of an upgrade. ---------- Post added at 10:56 ---------- Previous post was at 10:41 ---------- JRQaAv0m9M4 Something like this is not going to cut it. Dedicated weapons key + left mouse button to place/throw/fire is the way to go. Mine/satchel settings via radial 1-button menu.

RE: placing Primary weapon & AT launcher on the same key - can be done and it is one of the many valid configurations, though this mental masturbation seems pointless, unless BIS is listening. Sniff, sniff. :(

To reiterate my clear point regarding "suppression", If you can't instill the fear into the enemy that you're supposedly "suppressing", you're doing a damn crap job, but good luck with whatever visual emotion modeling you people come up. V8TXBuXCeL0 Over and out.

In full agreement on weapon selection being the most important issue - everyone uses equipment, but not everyone takes up command of AI: PvP often proceeds without AI squads; new players as a general rule are more interested in the equipment and streamlined gameplay; solo missions and online Co-Op are another example. The number row revamp could revive PVP in this game and retain new players. So far the automatic toggle of the command menu via unit selection is the best proposed solution, tbh.

If F is fire rate/safety (safety mode, YAY!) selector only, then the under barrel grenade launcher could be moved to number key 3, example of a layout: 1 - Primary weapon, 2 - Secondary, 3 - Primary weapon grenade launcher and/or weapon attachments, 4 - Anti-tank launchers/RPGs, 5 - All types of grenades, pressing 5 repeatedly cycles through frag, smoke and so forth, 6 - all types of mines?, 7 - rangefinder, LD, 8 - satchels, etc. Layout is of course debatable. ---------- Post added at 14:47 ---------- Previous post was at 14:41 ---------- Yes, you could play with various explo/mine combinations, though if satchel mechanics stay the same I'd rather have a dedicated number key for timer operations and touch off. Also, certain mines, like Claymore, have remote detonation - will be interesting to see how BIS implement that in-game. I hope we won't find it on the scroll menu after this thread. :o

But naming it AI command revamp might garner more attention. "OMG, wat are dey doing to my AI army?!" :)

Quoted discussion seems a bit dislodged, but alright. Could you rename this thread "Command & Action menu revamp"? I think the most important thing that could be drawn from that discussion is a fact, which is acknowledged by nearly everyone, that the command interface uses far too many keys, mainly 0 to 9 number keys plus backspace. After a bit of brainstorming, this idea arose, Thoughts, everyone? Command/Weapons problem 1: This has no key re-map, AI commands will be executed the same way they are today, but the 0 to 9 number keys will be freed up to weapons/gadget selection, unless a unit is selected. There is a lot of equipment in ArmA, the following can be carried by a single person.: primary weapon, secondary handguns, AT launchers, AT mines, tripwire mines (ArmA III), jumping frog mines, satchels, frag grenades, smoke grenades, binocs, rangefinders, laser designators - what else? :) Grenades can now be removed from the F fire selector key, B for binocs can be relocated to a number key, if needed. Update: In-vehicle interaction can now be mapped to the number row as well, such as switch to Driver's seat, Commander's seat, Get Out, To Backseat, so forth. Full layout & mechanics: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?139228-Controls-Scheme-amp-User-Interface-Feedback&p=2216817&viewfull=1#post2216817 Scroll Action menu problem 2, or 1-dimensional scroll list vs. 2D radial-rose menu: So, now we unload the Action menu from redundant parts like Weapons selection via scrolling, and we can rework the Action menu itself to a radial style middle mouse button -> mouse swipe -> MMB release activation, examples, Crysis 1 Suit radial Action menu implementation: http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?139228-Controls-Scheme-amp-User-Interface-Feedback&p=2216642&viewfull=1#post2216642 http://www.turnedbygeorge.com/sitebuildercontent/sitebuilderpictures/Patterns/459045TriangleOctagonDetail.jpg http://mathcentral.uregina.ca/QQ/database/QQ.09.04/mary1.1.gif http://www.sztab.com/tapety/galeria/tom-clancy-rainbow-six-3-raven-shield-3.jpg There's no key re-map for the new Action menu and we free up the scroll up/down function of the mouse wheel. Consolidation and refinement. :)

+1 Can we unclip the few last pages into a separate thread, since it is all interface/menu discussion? Starting from this post, http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?122794-ARMA-3-development-blog-amp-reveals&p=2211755&viewfull=1#post2211755 Appreciated.

Correct: default function of the 0-9 keys is weapon/gadget selection, F1-F12 toggles it to full command mode till all units are deselected.

You're saying concepts which are self-explanatory. Explain how an artificial system of schizo hallucinations fits into all of this. Like this? slvCVuU5efM This appears to be the example par excellence for everyone suggesting we simulate the emotion of fear. Loss of motor functions and blurry screens were proposed by the hosts of the thread, and everything of importance to the topic, which I showcased via ACE 2 was deemed "not enough suppression". So what is enough? Define it already. Explain in detail. It better work 100 out of 100 times. For bizarre you go to the PTSD crowd, not me. The fire element can be any type of unit from a fireteam to a damn platoon, and they may be suppressing two people - how would they know how many are there? So that's thousands of rounds to suppress a threat and flank it successfully, yet people want to incapacitate their adversaries merely by pointing a handgun at them. Circus.

Thought about it and the numpad is not really usable in combat, dedicated keys for often used/vital commands within reach would be good, though we don't have the keys to spare. Reworking the current command dialog menu and repositioning certain commands, while leaving input via 0-9 and (automatic) toggle seems to be the best compromise. F1-F12 key being the auto toggle for command input on the 0-9 number keys is brilliant in my opinion - have you ever clicked one of them my mistake without a unit selected and thought to yourself, "What a redundant menu... Backspace, backspace!"? My thoughts exactly.

No problem, enjoy your instant-PTSD.

Never thought I'd ever see it, thanks a lot. This is doable, kinda mini-arm shake. As has been mentioned before, at the moment heart rate/involuntary hand movement increases with ground proximity shots, but clearly audible cracks and close passes get ignored. Thoughts? ---------- Post added at 17:51 ---------- Previous post was at 17:47 ---------- Everyone's nervous system response is different, otherwise there wouldn't be 99% the psychological problems existing today. How am I not comprehending it? A generic term that can and is applied in practice: disengage, flee, engage again, given the opportunity. Refer to flanking. :rolleyes: