Bernadotte

Yes, that was in 2002 and it forced the Israeli Supreme Court to impose a temporary ban on the use of human shields. In 2004, photographers caught this 13 year-old boy tied to a jeep as a shield against stone throwing. Â They sent the photos to the Justice Ministry. In Oct 2005, the ban against using human shields was made permanent, however the IDF has appealed the decision. http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/4333982.stm Btw, the IDF was still using Palestinian civilians as human shields in Gaza as recently as last month: http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/middle_east/5212870.stm

He is a soldier who understands the risks to his own life for the sake of Israel's security, no? Are you placing his safety above Israel's? Â Besides, you are not deliberately targetting him so you might not even kill him. They are not just "some guards." Â They are probably the same dangerous terrorists who kidnapped Cpl Shilat and killed two of his commrades. Â If not then they belong to the same group and are probably planning to kill more innocent Israeli women and children very soon. Â You need to stop them.

No. Will the Israeli air force use an air-strike to kill the terrorists who are guarding Corporal Gilad Shalit if the IDF finds out he is being guarded in a location where the army can't rescue him? If your answer is no then why not?

True. Â I was very surprised that nobody accused President Bush of referring to the entire nation of Iraq as a human shield in his 2005 State of the Union address when he said: He might as well have added how lucky America is that allies like Spain and Britain have made targets of themselves for terrorists who otherwise would have attacked the USA. But this really belongs in a different thread... Â

Ermm . .I don't think so. Why not? Â I thought you said air-strikes against terrorists are "damn good" and that you kill a lot of them that way. Â

the answear is now, because there are army guards inside each settelment, so by the time an helicopter/airplane reaches the terrorist will be killed. I see. Â So, if you find out where your missing soldiers are being held and you can't get to them with the army will Israel launch an air-strike on the locations to kill the terrorists who are holding them?

Question for mp_phonix: Â Sometimes [armed and dangerous] Palestinian militants infiltrate [enter by force] Jewish settlements. Â Has Israel ever attacked such terrorists with an air-strike [missile or bomb] or do you [israel] have a different policy when Jewish civilian lives are at risk? [i even remember reading about settlers being held hostage, like human shields. Â How many Jewish human shield have been killed by the IDF? Â After all, [i]"killing of civilian is unfortanate but you can not expect to stop doing it because sometimes it kills civilians"[/i], right? Or were you only referring to Arab civilians?] [edits]

This reminded me of something you posted before the conflict started with Lebanon:

I think you'll find that your attitude also explains why there are people who want to crash planes into the Kneset in the first place.

Oh Really? Â Have you even read the cease fire terms? If so then please tell us what the deadline is for disarming Hezbollah. If not then... Â Â Why did Israel waste a whole month trying to kill Hezbollah if you honestly believe that disarming them should only take 6 days? 1.) Membership in a Terrorist Organization 2.) Will be good for prisoners exchange in the return of Gilad Shalit, and a good levrage to make the terrorist release him Abducting people and detaining them indefinitely without charging them is not arresting. Â It's kidnapping.

Oh really? Â Do you honestly believe that a dozen commandos dressed as Lebanese army soldiers in 2 humvees accomplished in a few hours what the IDF could not do with an army of 30,000 during a month of bombardment?

You still don't get it, do you? Â I actually think that you should exclude the Palestinians from those who you believe have "issues" dealing with violent events during the Mandate. Â In fact, I think you would have a very difficult time finding a single Palestinian who would not be proud of any actions taken against British efforts to aid Zionism. Since when does resistance and terrorism have to be mutually exclusive? Â

You should try to find a short 1963 essay by Hannah Arendt called Denmark and the Jews. Â It tells the remarkable story of how more than 99% of Danish Jews were saved from the Holocaust. The Danish authorities had put up so much bureacratic resistance that the whole process of rounding up Jews in Denmark was delayed until 1943. Â And by then, according to Arendt, the German SS officer in charge, Dr Werner Best, had been influenced by the Danes into changing his way of thinking. Â Indeed, the Danes received advanced warning allowing Jews to hide or escape to Sweden. After the war, Best was sentenced to death but a Danish court accepted his appeal on the grounds that he'd indirectly helped save Danish Jews. Â His sentence was reduced to 5 years in prison. Maybe that's the help your friend heard about.

What rockets? Â Please post a reference. Â A few mortars did land near an IDF position shortly after the ceasefire started but nobody was hurt and the Israelis didn't consider it significant. Did you honestly expect information about the ceasefire to reach every isolated Hezbollah unit in every tunnel after Israel had spent a month trying to destroy their entire communication system? Â I'm surprised that word spread as well as it did. It has? Â ...Reference again, please. What is it that you expected Lebanon to do during the first 5 days of the ceasefire? Â They haven't even had an opportunity nor the infrastructure to pull all the corpses from the rubble.

Please stop dicking around with me. You know I'm not just talking about Palestinian or Israeli debators because I included myself has having problems with the history in one of my posts. If you are now you are excluding the Palestinians from "both sides" and reducing the two sides to Israelis and billybob2002 who have issues dealing with Mandate history then it's not me who's dicking around. Was the King David Hotel bombing a act of resistance or terrorism? The Jewish authority in Palestine denounced it as an act of terrorism. Â I'm inclined to agree with them especially given that the leader of that attack was as much a citizen of Palestine as Osama bin Laden is American. Btw, that same terrorist leader went on to become Israel's prime minister. And for the record:

What don't you agree with that is in the White Paper of 1922? There was no agreement that Palestine would be left out of the Hussein-McMahon Correspondence promises. I don't know if the Palestinians have trouble acknowledging their violent acts against Jews and the British during the Mandate years. No? Â But, didn't you just post that "both sides of the argument have issues dealing with history of the conflict regarding the Mandate years"? Â So, what exactly were those Palestinian issues you were referring to? Oh really? Â Who have you been speaking with? Â Certainly not an Israeli. Â And certainly not the same people that TrevorofCrete has been speaking with. resistance n. group action in opposition to those in power

The White Paper of 1922 was incorrect. Not all Palestinian Arabs were innocent during the Mandate years too. Mohammad Amin al-Husayni, the Mufti of Jerusalem, hated Jews and actively worked with the Nazis. For example, in 1941, he declared a holy war against the British and he got Hitler to make a statement saying, in effect, that the Nazis would destroy the Jews in Arab lands. Additionally, in 1943, he helped formed the 13. Waffen-Gebirgs-Division der SS Handschar, a Waffen-SS Division comprised of Bosnian Muslims, to fight partisans in the Balkans. According to the Anglo-American Committee of Inquiry, a 1945-1946 commission to review Jewish immigration to Palestine, Mohammad Amin al-Husayni was probably the most popular Palestinian Arab leader. Then there were the riots and other acts of violence that targeted Jews. As well, the Arabs targeted British officials. Basically, both sides (including myself) of the argument have issues dealing with history of the conflict regarding the Mandate years. Are you actually claiming that the Palestinians have had trouble acknowledging their violent acts of resistance during the Mandate period the same way Israelis have tended to forget their nation's own terrorist roots?

In fact, a commonly used argument of Israeli government spokespersons against granting Palestinian refugees any right of return is that it will lead to the "destruction of Israel." Â However, they do not argue that there would be a physical/military threat to the state. Â Instead, they believe that letting in a large non-Jewish population will tip the nation's demographics away from being a majority Jewish state. Â And that as soon as Israel would cease to be a majority Jewish State it could be considered "destroyed." As I understand it: According to post-WWI maps drawn (badly) by the French, the Shebaa Farms was part of Syria's Golan Heights, however it was primarily settled by the Lebanese. Â When Israel captured/annexed the Golan Heights they did not take the Shebaa Farms thinking it was Lebanese. Â Later, they realised their mistake and, when they pulled out of South Lebanon in 2000, they kept the Shebaa Farms. Â Since then, Syria has tried to disown it in support of Lebanon's claims. Â So in a way, Israel has already given the Shebaa Farms to Syria, but they cleverly attached it to a part of Syria that Israel already captured from Syria.

Turkey and Armenia are Arab countries?? Â Prove it!!

Prove it!! "B'tselem is a communist organization, founded by the Israeli communist party (Hadash). It's a political organization, and doesn't try to distance itself from its political stance, so it has even less credibility than HRW or AI have." First you claim it is the communist party. Â Now you claim it was only founded by the communist party because a blogger posted it. For your information, here are the founders of B'Tselem: Nothing at all about Israel's Communist Party being the founder. Â Nice try!! Â Â Lighten up!! Â Â

<span style='font-size:13pt;line-height:100%'>Prove it!!</span> About B'Tselem: Donors: Keep trying!! Â

Firstly, 15,000 troops is about 8 times more than UNIFIL had before. Secondly, their will be an approximately equal number of Lebanese troops, increasing the total force strength to around 16 times what it was before. Thirdly, this time the IDF will not withdraw quickly by surprise leaving a power vacuum as they did in 2000. Â In fact, their South Lebanese Army allies didn't even know they were withdrawing in 2000. Â Many SLA fled into Israel while others were captured by Hezbollah along with their arms and equipment. Only 2 Euros? Â Â You're a lot more confident in Hezbollah giving up the gun than I am. Â I'm much more curious about the peacekeeping force's reaction if/when Hezbollah acts again.

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You've never encountered a worse kind than that? Â Consider yourself lucky.

Pleae check the record. Â I've been asking you to identify the "people" you referred to in a statement you made on this page and NOT a question you asked back on this page... and you know it. That's it? Â That's the best argument you can offer for why you believe I hold views exactly the opposite of what I stated? Â No quotes? Â No links? Â No evidence? Nope, obviously not.