Albert Schweitzer

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ May 23 2002,20:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">WE can agree the USA messed up in Iraq.Back then we knew they had chemical weapons,and working on nukes.But now we don't know if he has them or don't have them,i have a feeling that we didn't go all the way into iraq because of chemical weapons.Anyways he still probably has chemical weapons,and if uses them on soldiers ,i'm probably(if theres a draft) going get screw and sent to some hell hole in the world. IS there really a solution though for iraq ?If we take sanctions off,he probably can rebuild his army quicker,and his other stuff we don't know about quicker. About Somalia,Do you know after U.S. troops pulled out soo did UN forces ,because they couldn't control the warlords and the people,If Somalia did work i bet alot more africa nations would be help by western force.But after Somalia americans got reminded of vietnam.<span id='postcolor'> Damm Somalia, unfortunately that has convinced many countries that there is no way to interfer in african countries. But maybe we should try to bring those countries to peace from a different direction. If you cant improve the situation in Somalia cause it is just too risky, maybe we should try to first develop all surrounding countries. This could be less risky and bring, as a final result, peace, as a spin off, to somalia. This is more time-consuming, but in contrast to Iraq we seem to have the time. Iraq is realy realy challenging. Especially since now we face the pure opposite situation to that of desert-storm. Now we actually have to fear the allied countries around Iraq and no longer the army of Iraq. We have cultural barriers that prevent us from being able to estimate the the grief of arab nations towards the western world (simply a different culture). We risk to eliminate possible mass-destruction weapons but on the other hand maybe to foster fundamentalism (and suicide bombers (because they will hate us more for our western arrogance). I see the one and only solution realy to include Arab leaders into the peace-process. They need to understand the seriousness of the situation, the possible consequences for the whole region, the determination of the americans, and the risk of causing a cultural century-war. They gotta learn to take responsibility for two sides. Â Â

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (IsthatyouJohnWayne @ May 23 2002,19:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">"No these demonstrations are a new phenomenon that came with Bush. As I said, American presidents have always been very warmly welcomed by the crowds in Europe. Always since WW2. Bush Sr. was also very popular, Ronnie also" What? thats not true ,there have been a hard core of protesters for decades, since the 60s really The idea thats its just new and because of Bush is rubbish, certainly there might be more ,a lot more than normal,but there always is in a war atmosphere There might be a more popular anti 'US-War' sentiment but theres always been a core of 'anti' protesters .... I.T.Y.J.W. .....<span id='postcolor'> No, I have to admit Longinius is right here. In fact all presidents were always warmly welcome in Germany. That is why we got those: "Ich bin ein Berliner" and "Mr. Gorbatchov, please tear down that wall". But that was in the times of the cold war. East Germany was occupied by communists which keept families apart. Of course western president symbolised hope at those times. Clinton however was a very special visitor in Germany. People realy realy liked him since he shared our views on many many issues. But I can only repeat what I said, those demonstrations werent realy reflecting our attitudes! Those people on the roads are called "colorful birds" here, and they basically protest against anything.

I can see your post Anyway. Maybe sometimes the expression: "war on terorism" is stating too expressively the intentioned strategy: defeating terorism with war. Somehow this seems to narrow peoples views of the misery this world is in and the possible solutions we got. Wars is always considered as the last solution, but also as a successful but hurting solution. People who are afraid of teror are happy that this effective strategy is proposed by the US. In the middle East war hasnt solved anything but hurted a lot. The blindness to get rid of Saddam has costs 100`000 peoples death (starving and medical undersupply due to sanctions). And the one and only rapid solution that comes to our minds are once again bombs. It is ashame that we dont know any other solution. I would realy like to establish a cost estimate for undertaking such a war. Including the amount of soldiers that we need to pay for life-time since we never know when we move into war, and the money we invest to rebuild the destroyed country. This is a hell lot of money.... But simply paying money doesnt realy help either. Somalia was a good example. Simply sending money would have only increased corruption, the military action didnt help though either. On the other hand: screw you arab countries that you dont support the peace-process at all. Fucking rich arab nations just support the leaders of Syria, Iraq and palestine with propaganda, weapons, business contracts. But concerning the social health of the population, nothing!!! Many of the leaders in the middle East consider political standpoints more important than peoples fates. Anyway, I dont like half-hearted solutions. The last Iraq war was a total desaster. Not because the US lost any battles but because they failed bringing the story to its end. That was the real "cyancaly pill" for the Iraquis. A few bombs would have hurt less then those silly sanctions. Objective not reached. Or maybe they didnt care if it was reached, at least as Saddam no longer had the power to occupy important oil-resources. So ZERO humanitarian objectives at those times! I dont realy mind the US once again attacking the Iraq, but this time only with clear objectives and a positive outcome for the civillian population of the opponent!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ May 23 2002,16:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Akira, you are trivializing the issues and confusing politics with people. I have several close American friends. I have been to USA on several occasions and Americans are extremely nice and friendly people. That however has nothing to do with politics. As you might have noticed I mostly disagree with US foregin policy, and especally W. Fallen & Albert: You yellow cowards! Especially you Albert who have criticized USA for its foregin policy on several occasions. Now when it is about Germany you chicken out. You are shouting out for a strong Europe, but when Bush comes to visit you fall to your knees to kiss his ass.<span id='postcolor'> What is a yellow coward (somehow reminds me of indian food). Actually it is very simple to explain my point of view. I like to discuss issues and their best solutions. But Even if I dont agree with a person 10 out of 10 cases it does not mean that from then on I am sure I will never agree. Even if this might appear confusing to anyone, I change my position corresponding to the issue discussed not the parties involved. Never count on me to defend western values, but also never count on me to defend the right of Taliban-souvereignity. You want to hear Anti-US statements from my side? Fine, the US is continously increasing the speed of the the planets ecological destruction! YOu wanna hear recent european "bad things"? Well, norway hasnt stopped killing whales, I think their fishing products should be especially taxed? Btu that is so silly. Confused? Well I am not! I general I want the germans to be known as people with great hospitality. Comparing the situation of Bush to that of Clinton is inapropriate. Bush is facing a far more challenging international crisis than Clinton (if he masters it or not). Clinton arrived in a time of US-prosperity and relative global-peace.

I dont use home-emailing anymore. I always got stupid viruses and too much junkmail with Outlook. Now I use Yahoo, and I got no problem with it. And of course I pop-mail connected it to my home account (which I fully delete regularily).

There is nothing wrong with coconuts (if the content is the right one)

The problem why the combat hasnt realy started yet is because the Taliban finish their prayers when the british troops start their afternoon-tea-break. And the Al-quaida starts its "why-westerners-suck" evening class when the american troops return to their desert-baseball pitch. One of those parties is always busy

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ May 23 2002,16:18)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Somehow it`s sad, that the right of free speech is used for propaganda by third parties...<span id='postcolor'> Smartest sentence I read today. I dont want those demonstrators or the press to claim, that those protests represent the "german opinion". That is so rude. Â

I wonder if there will ever be a version where you can put a name-badge on your uniform (also on MP).

Ah leave me alone with those silly pictures. I know what people in my country think and I know that we dont welcome visitors like that. I have the impression you want to abuse the visit for Anti-US propaganda. Anyway, demonstrators that start a fight with the police should not be taken seriously (cause german history taught that only peaceful demonstrations can break a wall). Â The police was there to secure the president from terorists and not from the german crowd! And his speech was good and welcome BTW: dont tell me this guy is not an arab! (why does he write it in english, oh, I guess for the international press) (after all, some germans just like a good fight with the police)

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (foxer @ May 23 2002,04:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I wasn't going post in this thread,but damn too much USA bashing going on here.Sure USA ain't perfect,but who is ? Why  do you bring stuff the USA did 50 years(or longeR) ago ? Do we say "fucking german and their nazis" ,"let go get all the arabs and throw them in an oven. ".No,but you people bring stuff back from vietnam days,and other crap.When the USA falls soo will europe,soo keep wishing when the USa falls,you'll be with us.Back then is not now,the world is not the same.Soo when you say america did the same in the past and it was wrong,what makes it right now ? I hate to say you people just want to bash the USA. Anyways I don't know why we support israel.If israel was in europe though and palestine was some country in europe ,i bet you some money that we would have already bombed israel.But it's just not the USA fault for the problem in the middle-east.It's everyones fault,if the germans didn't kill the jews like they did ,jews will still be living in europe,if middle-east would atleast talk to israel,maybe they can work out a deal,palestine has no leader,they have groups of people that want to kill people,mostly civilians. Anyways who cares.I sure don't,probably going be my last post in this thread ,unless i see alot more USA bashing.<span id='postcolor'> This time I must agree with you. I have the impression that people stick to their position due to resentiments. The discussion has rather frozen. I dont like it like that.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ May 22 2002,20:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Women are still opressed in Afghanistan and they were worse off before the Taliban. The opression of women in Afghanistan is not a Taliban thing, its a cultural thing<span id='postcolor'> Longinius. As a matter of fact just 2 days ago there was a 30 minutes report on BBC only about the women movement in Afghanistan. I can only repeat what I saw. In the sixties women in Afghanistan were highly emancipated, basically ruling the educational system, and enjoying western-style respect within their community. So you are just wrong, by fact, not by my opinion.

Now I have read the 5 pages and I have the impression you implicitly try to express your feelings towards the US through "what the germans say". But please consider that the "green party" is a shattered pacifist party and the PDS are nothing else than the old ruling party of East Germany (surpressive communists). So what these people say is not representative for the Germans (rather for an extremist frustrated minority). And you will hopefully see the press express it as such. Now even if there have been demonstrations, it has to be clearly said that most were peaceful with real messages such as the Kyoto-treaty. And none were Anti-american, rather anti-republican. (only a few stupid fundamentalist arabs and hooligans searched the fight)

I dont like this thread. I havent read the 5 pages (but I will) I just feel pressured that it is incredible inpolite BULLSHIT to post this. Bush was indeed very welcome and his speech was very warmhearted and apreciated as this. The demonstrations are a piece of democracy. it would be ridiculous not to have at least 1000 demonstrators in a nation of 82 million. And also do we have a great percentage of arabs in germany who of course wish to express their arab attitude towards the US and their Middle East policy. SO PLEASE DONT SPREAD THIS BULLSHIT, and please, dear americans dont get the wrong impression. I am german and I claim to know the general attitude towards Bush.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (LordZach @ May 22 2002,14:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">if you buy me a 6 pack i'll release my realism modifications to his WW2 weapons the MOHAA people stole their beach from SPR who probably stole it from the germans who probably stole it from themselves<span id='postcolor'> realy?

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (FallenPaladin @ May 22 2002,14:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Albert Schweizer @ May 21 2002,16:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Gib nicht so an! Gibs zu, du hast den kitschigen Film gesehen!    <span id='postcolor'> Ich guck sowas nicht!!! Höchstens meine Mutter...    <span id='postcolor'> Ich habs gesehen (irgendwann nachts im ZDF) aber nur weil dieses Maedel so huebsch war und weil ich mich gefreut habe das ihr Freund, der Eunuch, nicht mit ihr .... naja du weisst schon!

Never seen this guy on this forum anyway. I just remember Omaha beach from "Medal of Honour"

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (NEO [PZ] @ May 21 2002,23:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Albert, what happened to your nice Albert avatar and the more descrete signature? Â Auf wiedersehen<span id='postcolor'> struggle in this forum has become tough (like on the broadway). You gotta make yourself being seen. I had to add more pepper and colours to my sig. Actually it was my avatar that left me (the link) and not the other way around! But the new one sucks, I know that, but my postings are not realy better.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ May 21 2002,18:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Well yes I am saying the things about the Taliban because of my views of the US, but still, they supported the Taliban in the past against the Soviets, and I think the US was actually mainly responsible for putting them in power. I really don't know the real truth behind how the Taliban operated, but I have information that suggests what goes on in Pakistan is not very different.  Remember how the US went from sanctions to grants in Pakistan. Basically the US seems to do what ever is good for them financially, even if it means controlling other nations and sacrificing lives. I agree with you on the Jews in the US running the show. (if that's what you mean) I'm really not trying to defend the Taliban, I just want others to see that they might be targeted by the mad cow. I guess if you are German you also know that the US is trying to   control the EU.  It's like grand children telling their grand parents how to live. Nuts.<span id='postcolor'> I agree. But in Case of the Taliban the US by luck had to hit the authentic "bad guys", the Taliban. (that is why Bush has to come with 600 of his own body-guards to visit germany and needs several thousand german policemen, while Clinton was able to take a trip through the Bars with only little protection. We are not gonna cheer to Bush like we did with Clinton. Actually why doesnt he stay at home. Send us Clinton or Carter, they are decent men! )

Ouch Pukko, you are taking a very extreme opinion there. There are quite a lot Afghans to be found in Europe and their stories dont realy match with yours. The Taliban were a cruel regime. This "Look at us" strategy of yours doesnt help the people in Afghanistan. Fact is they opressed women, regularly prosecuted humans without any trial, raped children. Burned down whole villages on the front lines.... It is not a question of "western values" here, or maybe it is, but it is has nothing to do with the fact, that people were suffering. Afghanistan isnt a country like Europe a few centuries ago. In the 60ies more than 80% of all teachers in Kabul were women, and the country had in fact at reasonable economical health status. So this country was kept in the middle age by the Taliban. Of course the war had initiated misery, but it sustained by the Taliban. Whether we were better or not is not the issue here. Should women in Afghanistan still be stoned because we were not better. Should we let the Brasilians destroy the whole Rain-forrest, only because we also destroyed ours? You are basically saying that we are learning from history but it is not legitimate for us to teach others? How silly! It is like telling a father that he is not allowed to forbid his son to drink alcohol, just because he was young he was an alcoholic? It is not about who has the right, but who is suffering. You are fully ignoring the greatfulness of the Afghans (not only on TV) for the "liberation", whether it will last or not, and instead you are saying "we didnt have the right". Well, sometimes you need to take your right to help others!

How could this Junkfilm Spiderman earn four times more money during the first week than junk-film Starwars? I mean I liked the first episode but those Robos were just fucking childish. And those Superman, Batman, Spiderman, Iron-man, Tarzan, Mr.Frost Films are definately the result of a fucked up baby-boomer generation.

We are getting to general here. The US are supporting Israel because they have a great amount of very successful and influential Jewish Americans in their country. So of course they are taking a rather pro-israeli approach. But you are taking it too far when you say that they actually physically support the actions against palestine. I would rather say they dont protest enough, but that is about it. The Taliban should all burn in hell. I dont allow any discussion there. Mainly because they werent an elected administrative power but a criminal regime of murderes and rapers. To defend them with arguments, just because you dont agree with US foreign policies is wrong. I am glad this country (once a very liberal place with advanced emancipation movements) has finally found a track that guides into the right direction. I must say I am afraid of fundamentalists such as the Taliban, which brutally surpress the weakest in the community (women). All our bla bla about religious-tolerance is fine when we talk about the true Islam, but dealing with fundamentalism needs to use iron fist, otherwise you gonna be the one soon wearing a full-body Birka.

I remember him: (oh damm, there are so many nose picking images on the net! )

I have something in Comon with the Nazis, I am german, but that is about all the similarities. Oh, and I have something in common with the Romans too, I was born in Aachen (or Aix la chapelle) which was the capital of the New Roman Empire under King Karl (or King Cole) son of King Pippin. Maybe you are a bit harsh! The US is very much going its own way, that is true, but usually not without a real provocation. The opponent should be smart enough to weigh up risks with opportunities. Saddam could have known beforehand what would happen (he didnt have much of a choice, he had to pressure forwards in order not to get murdered himself). The same is true with the Al Quaida. How dumb can you be. I dont play with bulls, I know they are stupid, but still they are dangerous (a very mean picture to compare the US with a bull, but hey!! Its fun ).

Gib nicht so an! Gibs zu, du hast den kitschigen Film gesehen! Farinelli, oh this guy is said to let his wife sleep with his best friend to make her pregnant