Albert Schweitzer

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (xxxxx @ July 25 2002,10:32)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The terriots over in Palestine put themselves in civilian areas on purpose, so the Isrealies can not help but have a few civilian casulties. Tons of countries throught war have cuased civilian casulties, the Palestinians bombers are killing innocent on purpose and so I am for Isreal 100%!!!"<span id='postcolor'> Give me a break buddy! We are talking about an army of suicide bombers that attacks Israel, not a whole nation. Well alright, those bombers may be backed up by the entire population but that does not justify to condem them all. "I am a 100% for Isreal", this is not a soccer match you know! This so called palestinian army is a group of brainwashed teenagers and a few sexually frustrated suicide-women. Their motivation is so ridiculous that you should treat them like a father his son and wash their mouth with soap. The problem is the lack of proper education. But how can you teach them to use their own brain if they cant go to school or there is no school. Secondly I guess that a great share of the teachers are also heavily ideologised (i guess that word doesnt exist). Seriously, what makes me so disappointed is that I see a grown up sophisticated isreaeli elite on the one hand and a few silly teenagers on the other. It is not on the side of the pals to finish this war, cause they cant, it is the duty of the progressive and intellectual state of Israel. But instead of finding a solution Isreal plays Kiddy games. You should get the translation for "der stärkere gibt nach!"  In europe more and more people get the impression that Israel is NOT a grown up country!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (scout @ July 25 2002,02:42)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Still, it's disturbing enough to think that any Israeli general actually expressed those views. <span id='postcolor'> you want to see more disturbing data? go tomemri see what every other palestinian says about us.<span id='postcolor'> We should call this thread "FAQ Middle East conflict" and "hello, my name is scout, what can I do for you" Anyway, I realy like the responses you give Scout, they might be emotional on the one hand but also reflect a clear picture on the other. However, what is realy old-fashioned are those revengist comments as the one I quote here. We all know that the deeds by someone else dont justify your own ones. Israel is a grown up civilised state and cannot and should be smart enough not to adopt practices of other countries. I never heard the USA justify their death penalty by saying that Lybia and Syria do it too. BTW: yesterday there was a very interesting Interview for about half an hour between Sharon and the Representative of the German Jews. It seems as if Sharon does not like Jews to live abroad, and the interviewer wasnt happy about that. Damm hell, Israel had and has so many good politicans, why Sharon? And about the old interview with Sharon, I am neither sure if the old interview is authentic but what you present me here, I mean the apologies of the so called "author", are questionable as well. So to the hell with the interview.

Hihi, just because you had/have an american girlfriend does not mean you dont hate a country. The only girl that lightens up my life right now is german and I certainly have a lot of friends here but damm I hate germany. But hating the USA is general is an absurdum, due to the fact that, as the name sais it, it is an accumulation of different very individual states with a melting pot of cultures. To hate it would be hating a "passport", a piece of paper, but nothing else. However if a nation has a ruling body then of course you can have resentiments against it, and those can be justified. So if one sais he does not like the ruling party/parties than his opinion might not be of a prejudice nature.

Due to the originality and the special character of this thread I award it with the: Noone else would have created a similar thread as Mr. Wobble

This amount of precision that you describe in a real-life scenario is a inapropriate. Especially since buildings collapse not ony by shrapnel but pressure waves and heat! You would need a mico-bunkerbuster for that!

This is why you can get terribly downgraded in a dissertation if your quotations are inaccurate or cut down". Any cheap newspaper in the world uses this silly strategy and it realy is anoying! On the other hand Sharon is really not the person with a diplomatic language. I wonder what he would say if he could talk openly. I support the Isreali people in the fight against terorism (just as I support palestinian civillians). But Sharon... damm I hate his face...it is such a damm evil face...I can read in his eyes that he would pay any price to get what he wants. BTW: I 100% support the idea to kick out the families of terorists (if they dont state openly on TV that they dont consider the deed as heroic). The problem is that not the terorists are the ones to blame (I mean indirectly) but the brainwashers and moral-preachers within the families. Whether this is against the human rights or not. It sounds smart to me. However I wonder if it would really work. The families would probably go to Lebanon, a country full of suicide recruiters.

Neo, you got to pay me for publishing that picture. Well at least if it doesnt hit us it will hit some of the satelites that fly in the stratosphere. So you might miss out some of your favourite satelite porn-channels for a few days and probably your GPS might not work. So if you intend to cross the Sahara that week with a container of water and GPS, better....... no, I mean, have a nice trip! Â

Well being compatible to western ideologies does not mean assimilation. That is a very odd exaggeration of a solution that can be sensitive indeed. Â I dont quite get what you call cultural diversity, where is the cultural diversity in Afghanistan. You mean their tradition of war and starvation? The components of cultural heritage that I know from Afghanistan would not suffer under a "cooperative" government. In contrary, didnt we see the Afghans now return back to play Polo and listen to their traditional music since they live in a "reasonable" peaceful context? The so called "McDonaldisation" and "McCulture" is a simple-mind image of big bad capitalism conquering open countries and turning them into slaves. But fact is that the culture of trade in Afghanistan is older than our european neandertal skelletons, so we should not worry just because they got some money back in the pockets to actually buy food and trade goods. The cost of protecting this so called culture as you got it right now would be high. I dont know how many lifes it is worth for you. What you say about the oil-prices sounds logical but is only a tiny share of the truth. Fact is that Iraq cannot sell oil to western countries for a "bargain" price cause the OPEC would not support it. The prices are very much fixed to the world prices: "FLUCTUATING OIL PRICES: Â The oil-for-food programme has always been dependent on the international oil market. Â (un.org) Especially due to the fact that the OPEC produces surplus and countries like Norway and Russia would gladly close the gap. Furthermore does the "insecurity" factor also influence crude oil prices. As you may have seen Iraq and Iran want to undertake an oil embargo because of Israel. This itself allready increased the "uncertainty" factor of world prices by 2-3 dollars per barrel, without being actual yet! So replacing Saddam would mean eliminating the "uncertainty" cost.

Lets put it this way: Mission accomplished is when you make the country compatible to western ideologies. IF this is not the case than you will have to return one day and this mission will become more complicated and terribly costly, as we can see now with Iraq. You are absolutely right if you say that we are at war, but a war needs to have a clear goal, a point when you can say "we won". As with desert fox this was not the case. Saddam was pushed back into Iraq just like the Taliban were pushed back into the mountains. And we all know how many lives that costed because that war wasnt properly finished and silly sanctions were imposed. Just imagine what a great success that would be! Having brought peace into Iraq and Afghanistan would have a tremendous impact on the entire region. Furthermore it might lower the oil-prices (but that is pure assumption).

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Longinius @ July 24 2002,14:44)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">No weirder than any other religion.<span id='postcolor'> Oh, I guess a real member might be hiding here. I hope you dont start to recruit soon, after you brainwashed all of us? Â BTW: I just told my lawyer to buy the copyright of the asteroid, so if it comes near earth noone is allowed to show pictures of it without paying me! Furthermore you will not be able to shout in public: "look there the asteroid is coming" or "I think the asteroid is gonna kill us" without owing me money. Yeah, even death is gonna cost ya! Â

Anyway, I think the job is far from being done. Secondly I dont see the reason why the shouldnt continue doing our job in Afghanistan. In Germany we often say things like "now that we are already here we can do that too"! Just imagine what a damm great success that would be to actually bring peace to that region. It would show us that things can be changed, furthermore it would be a promotion for all intended future attacks against terorism!

Actually I remember my Scientology teacher having spoken about the bad Asteroid that will destroy us shortly before I had to give him my paycheck. Damm he was right! (no, in reality I grew up in Jesuit Boarding schools which are barely better than Scientology!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Lazarus_Long @ July 24 2002,11:21)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Look, we didn't go to Afghanistan to liberate an oppressed pople from a corrupt government, we are there to destroy the Al Queda network and to ensure that Afghanistan never becomes a "terrorist haven" again. Â All this restoring freedom BS is just political crap that makes the bleeding hearts of the UN and EU happy. Â If the people of Afghanistan wants a free society where their plethora of cultures can flourish in peaceful harmony, they have work for it themselves just like any other society. Â We are not the ones standing in their way. Â We are just there to do our job, protecting the United States from "a clear and present danger". I guess it's easier to blame America for the misery in Afghanistan, just like we get blamed for anything else. Â I don't really care. Â We said we were sorry for that wedding thing already... Â They should have realized that it was a bad idea to shoot rounds in the air while NATO warplanes were flying above...<span id='postcolor'> This post is freaky, you dont mean that seriously, do you? Â I dont know where to start! Besides the terrible amount of lack of emotions and sense of social responsibility (which I consider to be the difference between animals and humans) you appear to also are not a very pragmatic thinker. If you leave afghanistan without having "stabilised it" properly you will get terorism back in place. Cause terorism is nothing else than a lack of stability. If you think you can leave the country now and leave the humanitarian work to the EU (as they are the ones doing it right now in Kabul) then you will have a hard time finding support if you once again need to interfer in countries which fosters terorism. I dont mean military support but legislative support. Wherever you might attack in the future you need neighbouring countries that trust you such as Pakistan.

Thanks god we got Bruce Willis and Ben Affleck then! They will safe us, no? (and Bruce WIllis will die) Another opportunity for Bush to justify the construction of new attomic balisitic-missiles.

Nooooooo, Leaving it would be the egoistic solution. If they really want to change things they gotta stay. I am sure they will face some good "adventures" in the future but still "we promised to do the job".

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (MDRZulu @ July 24 2002,05:25)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Ill beleive 11b for this one because Denoir you hate the US and everything that is involved in and you never say anything good about the US, therefore you opinion is biased. You have never lived here yet you hate it do death.<span id='postcolor'> Silly inapropriate comment. You must be capable to face a discussion in a "discussion forum" without accusing people having an extreme opinion. Anyway between hating and criticising is a big difference. Anyway Denoir has far to few emotions and temperament (the scandinavians) to be hating someone!

Well your way of comparing the situation from before and now is somehow inaccurate. Before there has been a controled "arbitrary law" by the Taliban, but now there is the confusion of a power-vacuum. Counting the deaths is not the best way of estimating what happens, since both conditions cause a lot of casualties. Sure, we should not think that Kabul now is a safe place with converted christians and a new Burgerking around each corner. But there are indicators that things do get better! First of all the Aid-workers can undertake serious work, that was not the case before. Surely you remember the aid-workers that were accused of proselytizing. Now aidy's are actually applying for Afghanistan once again! Furthermore is the establishment of a new police force, the possibility for westerners to actually "sponsor" schools (before that was forbidden), the reconstruction of trade-routes a step into the right direction. Again, just counting the deaths before and after is not sufficient. On the other hand I am pretty much sure that the athmosphere will soon switch from UN-friendly to UN-hostile. maybe I am stereotyping but nations as such are unpredictable! I hope the turks, being in charge of Kabul right now, will be prepared!

being the one here who has a german passport, could I be the antagonist of this forum please? We got so much experience in that now and had quite a lot good hollywood lesson about how "zhe germans ja muzt be"!

5 kiddies? She must be cooking with 15-litre pots then and basically 1m diametre paella-pans! Â I learned to cook in those portions so if you need assistance!

What? Our forum has turned into a home for old people. There are not HOT serious political discussion going on anymore, even the Middle East thread has slowed down. I give Denoir the credit though that he constantly starts and keeps good serious discussions alive. Longinius too seems to invest some time in thinking about what he argues. Scout as well but he only hangs around in the MidEast thread. I know I am forgetting a lot of names right now and sorry for that! But a spicy discussion like we had a few months ago... are now dead end threads!

There was big trouble at the beginning to decide on the "mighty 5"! And some were realy hurt cause they didnt get into the club! lol I also remember the Llama thread which was great as well want to see the old forum? well here you are, that is a peace of treasure! OLD OFP FORUM aah all these names: theHamster, Fallenpaladin, MisterFrag, Rogue, SpaceAlex, Darklight, L24A, Noone, Monkey Lib Front, Captain Kickass.... LLLLOOOOOOOOOOOOOLLLLLL Â Oh, and by the way, this is one of the really typical threads of the past forum, and as you can see there were really explosive opinions and fights going on! The English SUCK

Okay, got the point! Then I will hide in the MiddleEast thread again! Heard about the incredible "kill eight children for one terorist and call it SUCESS" incident? well anyway, this belongs into the other thread above!

I miss Wobble (the antichrist) and NordinDK ( Mr-I-state-what-I-think). They both added color to this forum. SO I sponsor one for Wobble (XXl) And one for NordinDK Well and for the rest of you....I see what I can afford! But that should be sufficient no? I am just kiddin!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (denoir @ July 23 2002,13:43)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">more like shooting sitting ducks <span id='postcolor'> No No No, that is forbidden and no hunter with honour would ever do this! But I wasnt contributing to the battle I was just trying to open your eyes that we are exposed to regular life-cicles of political trends in europe and that those trends were european-wide already before the EU started.

I am not really contradicting any of you with the following comment so please let me eat my lunch in peace now! Oh, and by the way I hate you all for the posting whenever I am not there. I often wait for new comment but nothing happens for hours. Then I go away for a few minutes and 14853905945945439 new posts are up! Why dont you just ban me, it would have the same effect! But here comes my comment One of the interesting facts of democracy is the big effect a former ruling party can have on the future. People tend to judge by the past and therefore we now see in europe extreme tendencies towards the right after there had tendencies to the left. Unfortunately do those waves from left to right grow bigger and bigger and can end up in an extreme. On the other hand it takes quite a lot of time to flatten the wave and get a liberal party back to power. My predictions for europe will be 80% right wing during the next 3-4 years. Just see the amount of power Monsieur Chirac has now in France. He has the absolute power! Think about Holland and Italy. When we look into the past we see that during the last years the socialists had most european countries in their hands. Of course you cannot compare the socialists in the UK with the socialists in Germany but still, similar tendencies. And what did we have before this left-wing-europe? A right wing europe! Kohl, Thatcher, Mitterand... I wonder what the next wave will go to.?