Albert Schweitzer

Still, compared to industrial oil-tankers those ships have the size of toys!

the limit to flying maneuvers will always be limited by the capabilities of the pilot to resist the unconsciousness caused by 10g!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Othin @ Mar. 02 2003,15:13)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">First of all, I highly doubt the validity of this document. Â Something like that would not just be sent on a piece of paper for anyone to see. Â Denoir should also be able to speak to the fact that most countries don't send classified memos to each other. Â Things are taken care of in a very different manner. As for the NSA, it's common knowledge that they can tap the phones of non-US citizens. Â Is it right? Â Probably not. Â Is it an opportunity that any country would take? Â Yes. Â That's part of the game of politics. Â If anything this is a tame example of espionage. And those of you getting up in a fluff, I wouldn't start pointing fingers as many of your vaunted governments use the same methods of the U.S. Â Much like an arms race, you have to do a certain amount to stay relevent. Â France, Germany, England, Isreal, Australia, China, and Russia all invest large amounts of money in their intelligence agencies.<span id='postcolor'> Espionage is a big business. Especially industry-wise. It is a known fact that many big governments have forwarded secret informations on new products to national corporations so those would come up with an corresponding patents before. However doing that in an UN council only increases the impression that the US wants that war at whatever it may cost. This desperation lets us assume that there is more to the story then a few weapons of mass-destruction. Corea is spitting into our face and sending us pictures of polished nuclear facilities but the BUSHies send half of the strongest army in the world into the desert because a bunch of inspectors is not working fast enough to find WWI mustard gas.

Quote  America would bring about a lot of good things that Saddam will not.  Expect the iraqi people to feel the same way when counting their "collaterale damage". I would just like to bring up two things here. You are stating that the US would bring a lot of "good things". What the hell is that supposed to mean? "good things"? Good things like Democracy? Well then I can tell you that if there is a democratic election in Iraq then this would release many forces but definetly not the democratic streams. The most influences opposition forces in Iraq are Mullahs. And a Mullah as the new leader of Iraq would be an option that would kick Iraqs human rights right back to the stone-age (reference Afghanistan). And true democracy would mean to let this happen. Of course you believe it to happen as Mr. Bush described it, just the same way as it was with Germany. Finding a jew-killing Nazi country and quickly turning it into a civilised democratic coalition partner with a flourishing industry. Indeed it was great imagery that Mr. Bush used in his speech but he deliberately ignored one little thing. Germany was a country with a long democratic history and western values (before Hitler). But Iraq is a totally different story. Democrary is not the key to success and happyiness. The USA simply does not have the experience to claim that they will be able to perfectly understand and solve the issue IRAQ after a war.

I am not sure if many newspapers online already brought this issue up yet. Actually I waited cause I dont know the reputation of "the observer" and I didnt want to spam this forum with a thread on a topic that only "the sun" and "the daily mirror" would dare to publish. But it apeared on Site of "der spiegel" this morning so I thought I bring it up. (usually it is Avons job to create threads that simply consist of a reference to a newspaper article   ) Find the reference here </span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote </td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"> Revealed: US dirty tricks to win vote on Iraq war Secret document details American plan to bug phones and emails of key Security Council members Martin Bright, Ed Vulliamy in New York and Peter Beaumont Sunday March 2, 2003 The Observer The United States is conducting a secret 'dirty tricks' campaign against UN Security Council delegations in New York as part of its battle to win votes in favour of war against Iraq. Details of the aggressive surveillance operation, which involves interception of the home and office telephones and the emails of UN delegates in New York, are revealed in a document leaked to The Observer. The disclosures were made in a memorandum written by a top official at the National Security Agency - the US body which intercepts communications around the world - and circulated to both senior agents in his organisation and to a friendly foreign intelligence agency asking for its input. The memo describes orders to staff at the agency, whose work is clouded in secrecy, to step up its surveillance operations 'particularly directed at... UN Security Council Members (minus US and GBR, of course)' to provide up-to-the-minute intelligence for Bush officials on the voting intentions of UN members regarding the issue of Iraq. The leaked memorandum makes clear that the target of the heightened surveillance efforts are the delegations from Angola, Cameroon, Chile, Mexico, Guinea and Pakistan at the UN headquarters in New York - the so-called 'Middle Six' delegations whose votes are being fought over by the pro-war party, led by the US and Britain, and the party arguing for more time for UN inspections, led by France, China and Russia. The memo is directed at senior NSA officials and advises them that the agency is 'mounting a surge' aimed at gleaning information not only on how delegations on the Security Council will vote on any second resolution on Iraq, but also 'policies', 'negotiating positions', 'alliances' and 'dependencies' - the 'whole gamut of information that could give US policymakers an edge in obtaining results favourable to US goals or to head off surprises'. Dated 31 January 2003, the memo was circulated four days after the UN's chief weapons inspector Hans Blix produced his interim report on Iraqi compliance with UN resolution 1441. It was sent by Frank Koza, chief of staff in the 'Regional Targets' section of the NSA, which spies on countries that are viewed as strategically important for United States interests. Koza specifies that the information will be used for the US's 'QRC' - Quick Response Capability - 'against' the key delegations. Suggesting the levels of surveillance of both the office and home phones of UN delegation members, Koza also asks regional managers to make sure that their staff also 'pay attention to existing non-UN Security Council Member UN-related and domestic comms [office and home telephones] for anything useful related to Security Council deliberations'. Koza also addresses himself to the foreign agency, saying: 'We'd appreciate your support in getting the word to your analysts who might have similar more indirect access to valuable information from accesses in your product lines [ie, intelligence sources].' Koza makes clear it is an informal request at this juncture, but adds: 'I suspect that you'll be hearing more along these lines in formal channels.' Disclosure of the US operation comes in the week that Blix will make what many expect to be his final report to the Security Council. It also comes amid increasingly threatening noises from the US towards undecided countries on the Security Council who have been warned of the unpleasant economic consequences of standing up to the US. Sources in Washington familiar with the operation said last week that there had been a division among Bush administration officials over whether to pursue such a high-intensity surveillance campaign with some warning of the serious consequences of discovery. The existence of the surveillance operation, understood to have been requested by President Bush's National Security Adviser, Condoleezza Rice, is deeply embarrassing to the Americans in the middle of their efforts to win over the undecided delegations. The language and content of the memo were judged to be authentic by three former intelligence operatives shown it by The Observer. We were also able to establish that Frank Koza does work for the NSA and could confirm his senior post in the Regional Targets section of the organisation. The NSA main switchboard put The Observer through to extension 6727 at the agency which was answered by an assistant, who confirmed it was Koza's office. However, when The Observer asked to talk to Koza about the surveillance of diplomatic missions at the United Nations, it was then told 'You have reached the wrong number'. On protesting that the assistant had just said this was Koza's extension, the assistant repeated that it was an erroneous extension, and hung up. While many diplomats at the UN assume they are being bugged, the memo reveals for the first time the scope and scale of US communications intercepts targeted against the New York-based missions. The disclosure comes at a time when diplomats from the countries have been complaining about the outright 'hostility' of US tactics in recent days to persuade then to fall in line, including threats to economic and aid packages. The operation appears to have been spotted by rival organisations in Europe. 'The Americans are being very purposeful about this,' said a source at a European intelligence agency when asked about the US surveillance efforts. <span id='postcolor'>

The problem nowadays is that news are news whether they are true or not. Noone wants to be the last to publish NEWS and soon you have the unsupported gossip even on CNN. Reminds me of the last election in the US where BUSH was already announced winner before anyone could have known how many votes there were to be counted and how many would be invalid. Noone wanted to be the last to tell the news. Please treat this article with a certain scepsis and also coolness. Spying is nothing new to the political business and enables diplomats to better understand the motivators of the opposite side.

okay then. ----------------THREAD CLOSED-----------------

you could have prevented 9/11 and you didnt. I hope you can still manage to live a reasonable life with all the remources that you should have now!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Mar. 02 2003,10:01)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (killagee @ Mar. 02 2003,07<!--emo&)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">in the last 5 years, there have been 5200 confirmed sexual assault convictions against American Serviceman based outside the USA. Who are the rapists???<span id='postcolor'> We have over 100,000 troops deployed overseas at any given time. Now, over five years? that really isn't as bad as it sounds, when taken in context. Also, I'd like to point out that almost all of those convictions came about through the UMCJ, which governs US military behavior. So, if our troops break the law, we make sure they are accountable for the actions. We sure as hell don't encourage rape, and I deeply resent the implication that all American servicemen are rapists. I suggest you be a little more careful with your words.<span id='postcolor'> Well, hell I dont like to be the one who goes totally offtopic but I have to agree on that point. I worked in South East Asia for a while and that near a harbour where the american navy often stop for resupplying its ships. The soldiers that leave those boats usually havent a seen a girl then for quite a while and are slaves of their animalistic reproduction instincts. But the Military Police is very strict and intensively patrols the club and bar districts. And those MPs never caused any troubles to the locals. If there was a fight where american soldiers and locals were involved then the MPs only acted against the soldiers. And I didnt see many soldiers molesting girls. In Germany the american community of soldiers has always behaved well and I dont remember any incidents where we had troubles with american soldiers in clubs or bars. On the other hand I believe that sexual harassment WITHIN the army is quite an issue.

Yep, this is another "get rid of your steam" thread with a little bit of "tell us about it". I hate being robed or stolen from... I remember many incidents that realy struck me. The first one was in boarding school in Ireland where someone broke into my locker to steal my Max Magazines. Why the hell would anyone steal magazines and risking to get kicked out of school? I can tell you why...because Ireland at that time was still so damn catholic that it was damn hard to find magazines with top-models such as Cindy Crawford and Naomi Campell in it. And unfortunately my German magazine was full of it. Oh and then a day later the same person did the same thing and stole my grandfathers watch... grrr I was ready to kick any irish cow and any irish farmer for that..but would it have helped? And the second incident.(and this is what has inspired me to open this topic)..happend to me during this night. I parked my car right in front of our hotel and still someone broke the back-window to steal my CD-player. So damn anoying...he didnt see that there was a camera worth 400 Euro lying right on the seat next to him..nor did he see that I had my Pc-screen on the back seat..he didnt even touch my CDs..no he had to break my window to steal a CD-player that hasnt worked for more than 3 months now. Â but of course with so many CDs lying around he probably thought that player is working perfectly well! Please tell me that I am not the only one being blessed with bad luck and often being the victim of vandalism.

I always thought that the Antonov is a pretty secure plane due to the amount of turbines. Something realy bad must have happened to get this bird off the sky.

very good thread with a very interesting topic. I gotta sleep over it before I can post a semi-intelligent comment. Keep going and dont get it locked. In fact it is one of the most interesting topics I have seen here for weeks!

There should be a camera hidden behind the car stereo and once someone tries to take it out it should be triggered off and shoot a picture. Malta is small and I am sure I woulld have found that guy in one or another Kebab-store. Today I told the story to someone working in a fast-food restaurant and he told me the story that once: Two arabs came into his restaurant and ordered two Burgers. He gave them the burgers and then asked for the money. They said something like: first we want you to punch it into your computer (so the cash drawer opens). But he denied so they showed him their knifes. And as in Crocodile Dundee (the famous movie) he asked them: "is that all you got?" and then pulled out his famous butchers knife...I guess this was reason enough for the two arabs to leave the restaurant rapidly. But I need to emphasise one thing here. In the western world there are only very few people that steal for nurishment. Most people steal for the thrill, to impress their friends or because they want to get a financial profit out of it. Those reasons to steal disgust me and realy make me furious. Especially since I know that so many people on this poor island have to work so hard for their living. A theft is not only an act of criminal behaviour, it is also spitting into the faces of those that respect the rules of society. And what makes me most angry is that the police here is mostly composed of machos that play the tough guys on the weekends but are incompetent as hell. This toxic mixture of circumstances makes me feel...disrespected....powerless...and...stupid.

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (bn880 @ Feb. 19 2003,19:35)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Oh yeah, you are not alone, over the last few years we've had 4 attempts to steal our cars. Â Every time, new locks, ignition, sometimes broken steering column and seats... Â idiots. Â Â Finally I scared some shitheads one night that I suspected were picking out cars again, and magically no more car thefts in my neigbourhood for about 1 year. That's my community service, chasing fucking criminals around... Â Â but I'v stopped doing that. Â People here are too god damn chicken to let criminals know they mean business.<span id='postcolor'> But hell..they are afraid of nothing...my car was parked right in front of a hotel with 24hours reception.. I am gonna put the night-receptionist on a trial tonight..wonder what he has to say as defense. I would realy like to meet one of those thefts one day and find out what they are like... and maybe steal something precious from them. But the worst thing is.. now that a single person here in Malta has stolen something from me I am suspicious about everyone and suddenly they all appear in a different light. But generalisation has always been a typical german flaw..!

no how! aeh what? "kein wie?" ...."pas comment" ..."no como"

You step on you own feet here. OFP was an eyekandy

Maybe one day Saddam and Bin Laden will be able to share a villa together somewhere in beautiful Brasil (if they shave) or maybe only in South Africa or only in Mogadishu. But be assured...the last persons to die in the war against terorism will be those two!

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Tex [uSMC] @ Feb. 11 2003,22:37)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">This should've gone in Offtopic, but you make some good points. As gaming has become a bigger and bigger business, developers have stopped thinking in creative or quality terms, and more about what will make them the most money. Luckily, there's still developers out there (like BIS) who can buck the trend, but because they aren't interested in catering to the mainstream (the same mainstream that made the Sims and its many patches -I mean expansion packs- the best-selling game ever), they will never get the success or support they deserve.<span id='postcolor'> I agree and disagree. I agree that the gaming industry has much more grown into the hands of tough investors that want to see good return at little risk. No wonder we see games such as Jedi Knights being reproduced over and over.. On the other hand we should not ignore that only IT-specialists were working on games because they knew what could be put into reality. But now technology gives barely any limits to what and what not can be put into practice. Therefore the industry employs more and more creative workers such as scripters, animators and creative drawers. This certainly gives a boost to the creativity of the games. But as always...the investor has the final word and he rather chooses the secure way!

oh wait, there are other systems in the world that look nice on paper but in reality they are not. Take for example germany (surprise ). We are such a bureaucratic country that some murder-cases must be dismissed because it took the government two years of paperwork to get to the point, but unfortuntately too late...the murderer was freed! And back to bureaucracy. We have about 300 fishermen that fish in low-depth waters and we need 36000 governmental staff to administer them...well that is realy a yoke. Not surprising that 54% of all world-literature written on tax-policies is written in german......whoaaaaa!

What other financees could freeware have than those of marketing-profilers!

or maybe the german saying works better: the most stupid farmer harvests the biggest potatoes!

The tanks did not move even though the landing must have been visible to any enemy force around. Maybe the T-80ies secure a far more important target than what was being pointed out in our mission-objectives. Maybe the target itself had been moved? Or maybe this was a trap-target. The low incoming-information gave little clearance in that case so he could only count on his own interpretation of the mission..of course risking taking not only a desasterous decision but also one that would harm his mission objectives. He had little time to decide nor did the intensive sun gave him the power to objectively overthink the situation. "What shall we do?" ... those words even rushed him more into a decision he didnt want to take!

That is the most objective source I have ever seen---blank page-- thanks for the link!

Tell me then, what freeware isnt spyware.. Actually I dont care anymore.;.. I simply download any garbage I can find and disable any back-flow of information.

Pah... Not comparable. The good thing about good newspapers is that they are also able to provide subjective assessments right away. Newsflashs you can get everywhere ( reuters.com) but good assessment are hard to find! BAck to the topic!!!!!!