roshnak

Who are you responding to? What game with spaceships and aliens has weapon sway or anything like it? I'm going to assume you didn't read my post or watch the video I referenced in it. At this point it just sounds like you are kind of bad at video games and want this one to be easier.

Sounds like it would make for a pretty boring game, though. Zero G: Arma In Space It's what the underwater gameplay was really about.

First of all, I'm not really clear on whether you are referring to unsupported shooting, since you referenced resting your weapon from the kneeling position. Second, on the one hand, I can agree that some sort of weapon resting would have been a nice way to counter the new sway mechanics and allow players to more effectively engage from the standing or crouched positions. On the other hand, I understand the logic in not doing so. The new sway encourages longer duration fire fights and emphasizes fire and maneuver tactics and supression fire, which are both things that this community has been begging for. It also helps to curb the long running problem this series has had, whereby fights are predominantly extremely long range (500+ meters) snipe fests. Without the other features of the Marksman DLC to make long distance shooting more difficult, weapon resting would bring us basically back to where we were before the patch and potentially encourage even more static gameplay. If you want to make the argument that soldiers tire too quickly, then we can have that discussion, people have already suggested that both the rate of fatigue and stamina regeneration are too high and should be slowed down. But this thread is about weapon sway, not fatigue levels. I'm curious as to whether you watched the video dsiOne linked a couple of pages ago, since that showed a guy who didn't seem particularly hampered by the new fatigue system at all, and was able to accurately engage targets from various stances and ranges after 100m sprints. I'd also like to get your opinion on the video I posted in which I killed 4 enemy soldiers from a kilometer away in less than a minute. Yeah, but that's not really how using a weapon works in real life. You don't use muscle power so much as you use your skeleton to support the weapon, which takes far less energy. The sway that you experience when holding a weapon is from breathing, not shaking muscles or expended energy. The reason that a weapon sways more when you are tired is because you're breathing harder, not because you have less energy. If you are in a proper firing position and not moving and expending the minimal amount of energy, your sights should return to where you're aiming (They do this in game, too. The question is is do they move too far or stay deviated too long). Furthermore, how much weapon sway most trained shooters experience in real life is a good place to start drawing comparisons to how much weapons should sway in the game. Aiming with a mouse (or just using a mouse to complete tasks in general) in video games is a skill. It's a skill that many shooters rely heavily on and can have near limitless room for growth and development even in games that aren't limited by weapon sway or recoil patterns or dispersion. The skill it takes to get good at doing this can be as analogous to learning good marksmanship as weapon sway can be. What I'm saying here is that talking about how much weapon sway people experience in real life is not unreasonable, because unrealistic weapon sway is not a necessary component for introducing skill to marksmanship.

I missed 3 shots at 1000m, and I was firing pretty quickly. Until the Marksmen DLC further fleshes out long distance shooting, I feel like this is reasonable. Edit: Beaten. And yeah, AI balance could be an issue.

Yeah, but the guy in the video hit all the targets in a short period of time at ranges from 25-300m. The point is that it's apparently not that hard to hit targets while fatigued with the new system. If that guy can do it, why can't other people? His Youtube channel would lead me to believe that he's not some sort of pro gamer or anything.

Maybe it would be a good idea to include something along these lines in the OP of the CBA thread, so that misinformed people don't make this mistake in the future?

The rested sway is roughly the same as it was in America's Army and no one had a huge problem with that? Some people have suggested that you get tired and recover too quickly, which I would be inclined to agree with. It would also be nice to have a weapon resting option. But the current level of sway seems fine to me. A lot of people are upset about not being able to accurately engage targets at 500m with a rifle anymore. Well, you aren't supposed to be accurately engaging targets at that range. Typical engagements should be occuring between 100 and 300 meters. Anything beyond that is area fire at best.

Really? You think that sway is unrealistic from a 15lb weapon from the crouched, unsupported position with a 4x optic?

I agree with this.

I think it might be cleaner and easier to have a button on the unit info screen that opens up the virtual arsenal and allows you to edit, save, and load presets, and then automatically exports the required stuff to the init line.

All I'm saying is that your statement that "in real life you're constantly keeping your weapon steady" isn't really correct. That statement implies that you must constantly concentrate on keeping your weapon steady, which is not the case. The dispersion in CS isn't really random. Each weapon in CS has a defined pattern that bullets recoil in, which can be learned and corrected for, allowing players to fire in full auto and land most of their shots in the same place. dsiOne is somewhat correct in comparing correcting for the recoil pattern in CS to the weapon sway in Arma. In fact, both games feature weapons that are not directly correlated with the position of the crosshair.

This isn't really the way using weapons in real life works. You don't actively attempt to keep a weapon from swaying. It's about holding the weapon properly, so you don't have to fight your body or the weapon to get it to do what you want. I'm not having too much problem with the sway mechanics, but I do think that stamina is a little low and it does seem like they should have considered things like weapon resting beforehand.

The issue, honestly, is that he went about doing it in a really crappy way. He didn't ask permission when the original author was readily available. He has a pretty bad attitude in general about the whole thing, and he has expressed his intentions to do the same thing with other addons. If he wanted to help he would have offered to do so, instead of acting like he was doing everyone a favor. Even if he was entitled to do what he is doing (he almost certainly isn't), this guy isn't in it to create a less toxic community. I mean, come on, he came from 4chan, one of the most toxic communities on the internet. He's arguing on the Workshop page that preventing people from releasing a million modified versions of the same addon is causing the Arma modding scene to become stagnant. That's insane. We need less copies of other people's work. Not more. For the record, the reason that it's against the rules to bump addon threads asking for updates is that it alerts everyone who is subscribed to the thread that there are new posts and makes them think that the addon may have come out or that there is some news, only to find out that it was just some dude asking for news when there almost certainly isn't any.

Probably a discussion for a different thread. Maybe the CBA thread? Although I will say that the argument seems shaky.

Haha, that guy sure jumped on Steam Workshop, eh? Well, I guess we're about to find out how Valve is going to handle people uploading others people's work. Unfortunately, this is probably an even less clear cut situation than someone just straight up uploading someone else's stuff for whatever content moderators Valve employs for Steam Workshop.

Except this wasn't really an update that fixed bugs. This was an update that added features. Sure, but what does that have to do with this update whose features have been announced for over a month? Welcome to the world of modding computer games. Sometimes updates break mods. There's really no way around it. The medical module in Arma 2 was pretty bad and made it so that players were incredibly unlikely to be killed. It was basically a L4D/Borderlands style downed player system. Drag and carry options were cool, I guess, but utilizing them was more likely to get both players killed than not. Did anyone use the SecOps and Ambient Combat modules in a serious way? They were kind of fun to mess around with, but I didn't see many (any?) missions incorporating those modules. Also, The helo DLC is supposed to be adding TOH flight dynamics and the ability to fire from cargo positions in vehicles, which are two of the most frequently requested features for Arma 3.

There were Americans with Eastern European accents in Arma 2. You can't really expect the best voice work with Arma games.

Yeah, but this is where you are misunderstanding the situation. It's not really a matter of opinion. By agreeing to the Steam Workshop license agreement, you are, in effect, agreeing to become partners with Valve. That means that you have, by definition, less control than when you were the sole owner of your property. Look at it this way: Before agreeing to the Steam Workshop agreement, you are solely in charge of what happens with your assets. If you find out that someone is selling your stuff or hosting it without your permission or basically doing anything that you have explicitly said not to do with your assets, you can attempt legal action in order to put a stop to it. If anyone wants to do anything with your assets, it's up to you and you alone whether or not that thing is allowed to happen. In theory, anyway. After agreeing to the Steam Workshop agreement, it's entirely possible that anyone doing anything that you don't like with your stuff is doing it with the permission of Valve and, if that's the case, there's nothing you can do about it. It's not just about what Valve can or will do with your stuff. They can give anyone else permission to do whatever they want with your stuff. People don't have to ask you anymore. They can ask Valve. It's possible that you could find yourself completely cut out of any decision making process regarding how your assets are used. That is definitely losing something. Practically speaking, I think it's incredibly unlikely that Valve will do anything objectionable with Arma 3 addons. In all likelihood they don't care about modding in Arma 3 one bit beyond whether it helps them get more sales. If they were to do something shady and it were to get out, it could seriously damage their reputation as a company, which they have spent years building as being friendly to modding. However, to say that the Steam Workshop license doesn't cause you to lose control because you never had it in the first place is just plain incorrect.

Yeah, you do have the right to control how it's used by other people. You can say, "That doesn't belong to you, you can't use it that way." By uploading stuff to Steam Workshop you're saying, "This belongs to both of us now."

What does any of that have to do with Steam Workshop, though?

I don't understand what any of this Armaholic stuff has to do with Steam Workshop.

While this is technically true, there is also a genre of video games called "simulation" and I don't think Arma necessarily fits in with games like MSFS, DCS or Train Simulator. On the other hand, you could easily argue that BIS basically invented a genre with OFP and Arma and they can call that genre whatever they want.

I'm not a fan of the label of "military simulator," myself. I mean, really, could "military" be any broader a concept to ostensibly be simulating?* I don't think anyone would seriously claim that Arma is an accurate simulation of the experience of being in the military. And a relatively small number of people even think that would be a fun experience. With that said, as much as I dislike using the word simulator for things that aren't easy to simulate, the cat is kind of out of the bag. At this point it's basically just a buzz word that has nearly lost all meaning. Easily half of games described as being "simulators" don't even come close, and with the term being thrown around as much as it is, who really cares if people want to call Arma a simulator? *Yes, obviously it could.

I believe that what j4you is saying is that will likely have to wait for the next big main branch patch to fix this issue and we don't know when that patch will actually be pushed. This is arguably the kind of issue that deserves a hotfix.

Requiring a graphing calculator to use artillery is a bad idea. That is the epitome of adding micro-maagement instead of skill. For the vast majority of players it would be a boring hassle. In my opinion, that's exactly the kind of thing that is best left to mods.