poitings

I'm not here just to moan but I have an issue and want to bring it up. I just tried out the demo and the one thing that I hoped woud be changed from ArmA 1 was the ungainly way in which the gun/iron sights etc has little relation to the way you move the mouse. For goodness sake, it's like trying to point at something with a very loose, multi jointed talbe lamp (the kind that squashes the 'i' in the Pixar anim). No matter how I adjust the mouse in the settings I move the mouse and my gun view moves left or right and when i stop the mouse it just keeps on going until it feels like stopping. It's rediculous and impossible to aim. it was just like that in Arma 1. OpFlash was a bit bad but it was managable. Whenever I play Bohemia games i always have to grip the mouse and tense up my arm muscles so much as i fight the slackness of the gun position. you can't tell me it's 'simulating' realism by adding an inertia effect because I can't use my strenght to stablize and besides the mouse is very light so the brain does not appreciate seeing the reaction of the on screen gun act wildly different from what it expects when it manouvers something such as a mouse which almost weighs nothing. Other games try to put some realism in such as COD, Ghost Recon etc but they don't 'take away' from you control of your aim just to help you to pretend that the gun is heavy. I move the mouse a bit to the left or right and the gun doesn't move for a moment, then when it does it keeps on moving after I stop. I tried this on my low end pc with all the settingson basic and i even whent to a pc cafe that has a pretty good system (here in Korea) and even with everything on normal or pretty low it's the same. How can i play the game when i aim at an enemy and the gun view just swings past him then when i try to correct it it swings too far the other way then back again. By the time i get the ret centered on the enemy it's too late. I played OpFlash since the demo and loved the game so i'm a fan of the legacy but since Arma I found it to be unplayable. Arma and now Arma2 have the absolute worste mouse/gun control system i've every experienced ia shooter. I don't know if it's on purpose or not but it's terrible. Go on try it, pick up a table lamp with two or three joints and loosen them up then try to swing it around and point at stuff with it. That's how it feels when I try to move the gun around. it's exhausting as the strange effect causes me to grip the mouse hard as i feel like i'm fighting with it.

Either it's too laggy or it overshoots wildly. See you guys in Operation Flashpoint 2.

If find it rediculous that some people accept the terrible mouse problem in Arma1 & 2 on grounds that it makes them focus on other things. How about if it had no graphics, just a black screen? Would that be ok because it forces you to use hearing more strategically. Just saying it's a silly justification is all. Look, Arma2 looks totally awesome and I love the guys at Bohemia; i gave a huge chunk of my life to OpFlash which ran great on my first graphics card which had a Kyro2 chip in it. ;) But after playing the demo and seeing the same horrible mouse input (which caused me not to buy Arma1 even though I was looking forward to it) I just can't buy the full Arma2. It's a debate about hwo to represent the cross hairs etc. In some sniper games they have it swaying a bit 'to simulate breathing etc' but the human brain/mind is very much aware that the physical mouse 'IS NOT' swaying so actually by doing that you are making the experience far, far more unrealistic. But anyway there will always be those who disagree. The main point is when i move the mouse and the view is either sluggish or violently whips this way and that it's about the worst thing to have in a game. I can put up with a lot of bugs in a great game; I played Hidden & Dangerous1 all the way through back in the day despite dropping through the floor every third step. I can't tollerate not having absolute control over where I'm aiming though. A massive amount of mental and emotinal energy and enthusiasm is drained by the frustration of trying to get the ret to go where you want it. On top of that the brain causes the arm to tense up and the hand to grip hard and you end up with arm cramp. Whatever resources the different features of the game hog why dont they just make the mouse-reticule the absolute priority which no other feature is allowed to detract from. then if there is not enough cpu cycles let the graphics or sound suffer at some point. It's all very well if the game is making damn sure that a tree is drawn just right but i lose control of my aim all the time. Here's one lost customer until this get's fixed in this game or Arma3. I was planning to buy Arma2 'and' OpFlash 2. Somehow I don't think OpFlash2 will have the same mouse problem so don't make excuses. And I don't want to have to go into complex menue and file config to tweak it. Just fix it. I want to enjoy both games but as things stand Arma2 is out and OpFlash still has my expectation. Make a serious change to what very many of use have wanted since Arma1 as far as mouse control goes and we'll come back. It's hard to believe that after losing tens of thousands of customers for Arma1 because of this issue they went and made it just as bad in Arma2. ---------- Post added at 07:02 AM ---------- Previous post was at 06:54 AM ---------- On a psychological note. When you navigate the web and the next page is just laggy, it takes longer than it would take you to turn the page in a magazine we naturally experience frustration. You can't say it's just ten seconds so why be picky. The fact is that the brain/mind experiences discomfort when time or energy is wasted even if it's a tiny amount. If you use a massive amount of time and energy and you are aware that it's most effient way you might get tired but you don't get frustrated as you got the best possible return for your investment of energy, time, focus, concentration etc. Small frustrations can have massive impact. If we play Arma2 and every few seconds we feel that tiny drain on our patience and we feel a constant flow of frustration then that is about the worst thing to feel in a game. Eventually when you think about playing it you just feel all the frustration you are gonna experience every time you move the mouse. Eventually the anticipation of frustration outweighs the anticipation of fun. Fix it.

Guys, don't be childish and get off your macho realism thing. half a brain cell will tell you that I didnt mean COD is realistic but it's at least more so than UT or Quake games. I was trying to get at the point that the cross hairs should respond exactly as you input movement through the mouse. In this there doesnt need to be a difference between any games from Arma to GR to COD to CS to Quake3. If you can swing your mouse around and the gun lags becuase it wants to remind you that it is heavy then it takes you out of the ' being there ' experience and you end up in the 'the game is now describing what it would be like to be there' territory. There is no real realism in shooter games there is just things that make you 'feel' it's more real. All I'm saying is that the mouse/gun thing is very unweildly. I have turned every single setting off, distance to minimum, i've messed with the mouse and if i put it at zero it hardly moves so i have to have the two bars at half way to get the correct hand movement to gun movement ratio but the problem is that its not representitive. Is mouose acceleration programed in? if it is then that's stupid. I hate mouse accel more than anything, even in interfaces. My home system is old but the one i played in the pc cafe was dual core intel 1.86 gig with a decend graphics card etc. Even then i turned everything down way low and still got arm ache from the brain feeling like it's constantly wrestling with some heavy, unweildly gun. It's the reason I stopped playing Arma and went back to OpFlash. Try to keep the macho/childish responses to a minium kids, adults are talking here.

I'm trying to run the Arma2 demo and get the X3DAudio1_6.dll was not found messege. After searching i found out i need to get the "directx_mar2009_redist.exe". I go tit but when i run it it asks me where I want to install it. So, where do i go from here?

I totally loved OFP but one thing i didnt like and a big reason why my Ghost Recon clan mates couldn't get into it was the way the gun moved in relation/response to the mouse movements. Its the same probelm in the demo of Armed Assault. I'ts more like piloting a boat the driving a car. Feels very unweildly. I always feeling like i have to work really hard to get it to aim where i want. Always that little drag and delay an over pan. My comp isnt great at a 2gig Athlon, 1 gig ram but i have a 7600GT car so it's not weak either. I have the game on 1024 with allll the grpahics options either off or as low as i can get them. In Ghost Recon they still manage to pursue a reasonable amount of realism, i know it's not a sim as OFP and AA are closer to but i think one thing people don't want is inertia on the mass and weight of the gun. It's just annoying. I hate the feeling that i have to wave it around and try to settle the ret or optics of the gun where i want. I just want the aiming of the mouse and the onscreen result to be flawless and not something i have to struggle with. At least make that an option for those of use that loved OFP and will buy AA for sure but would like that snap to wherever i point the gun aim style. *** oh and you pureists, dont flame me, i'm just asking for an option, doesnt mean i dont love and appreciate all the other elements of the game.

It's a strangely statisfying feeling in games to actually see the little round heavey grenade in your hand before you throw it.

I don't have any problem with the floating crosshair icon on the screen. It goes wide whe you are running etc and that's totally intuitive and imersive. My only problem is that i'm moving the mouse around and what's happening on screen is delayed. When it's one pan from left to right to aim at a soldier it's not so bad as i have time to wait for it. But when it's close quarters with multiple enemies in front, left and right then in real life you could snap your aim ten degrees left then back right etc but int he game you spend too long correcting over shoot etc, it just becomes mess.

I'ts not a options thing cause i set the float to zero all the way to the left. I also, as i've said many times have tried to lower my graphics to the total bare minimum on every setting and it's still not smooth. It's not a system thing. My system can run GRAW on all maxed out settings more smoothly than ArmA on total minimum. It's just the way the game is designed i think. The actual gun, not the ret, is just too slow to respond.

Then if you have track ir at high sensitivity does the screen twitch all over the place when you make slight head movement or look away from the desk for stuff or does your mind get used to it as it does in real life? That would be pretty cool. And i guess it's better on a wide screen monitor. Man i totally loved the stereoscopic glasses i tried f rom eDimentional. In OpFlash it was amazing, even the indside cab of a truck looked so deep and real. The problem was though that i could never get the far distance and the near objects to both converge and become on image. Maybe my eyes are spaced too narrow or wide or something. Also the gun would not converge into one. So i had to return them. I thought the individual lenses should be slid enabled so they could be adjusted left and right to center on each eye but they are fixed. Still, the most amazing effect on games this side of full vr headsets. Just didn't work right for me four years ago when i tried them.

4 in 1: then if you don't need an explaination on the meaning of whining then it's worse as it means you knew it wasn't whining but you decided to characterise it as whining anyway. I agree with you, it seems the default attitude is whinine in the world these days. However a critical point of view is not whining. Ofpforum: no one ever said they can't move the mouse at high speed and have the gun follow acordingly. When people try to mischaracterise others statements in that way it shows that they don't really have a counter to their 'actual' point so instead try to distort it then provide a counter to that distortion. basically, when i pan the mouse left or right, even relativly slowly, the gun is not responsive enough for me to feel that 'i'm' moving the gun. Instead i feel that i'm giving some instructions to the game and some way, some time later i'm seeing it happen on screen. A result of that is there is a lack of emersion.

I mean this video that streams on jeuxvideo.tv http://www.jeuxvideo.tv/armed-assault-soiree-nofrag-mission-1-22-12-video-29603.html I downloaded it from a link on the site i found even though i dont speak French, but it wouldn't play. Despite my moaning about the mouse lag in the game, this video is very beautufl and seems to run very smooth. It's a really great and long co op vid. the mountains look beautiful If anyone can get a hold of that vid for download so i can watch it full screen that would be good. And if dyslexci can make some like that with maxed out graphics it would be awsome. Along with this an another, dyslexci's track ir sneak around vid are my faves. By the way dude, isn't it odd turning your head left then having to turn your eyes to the right to keep them on the center of the screen in track ir? Seems counter to what the brain would expect the eyes to do.

it doesnt end the discussion because the discussion isn't about how techinical problems caused mouse lag it's about how the way the gun moves in the tame is terrible. If it was about mouse lad i'd have named the thread 'mouse lag'. Also, as stated i turned not only v sync off in nvidia settings but just about any graphics feature and it's still laggy and in my and many other players opinion it's neither nice nor enjoyable.

Hi. This is a 'video music' thread and not a video thread per se so please let it stand alone. Ok let me start off by stating a principle. The is a difference between a 'piece' of music and a 'type' of music. I think everyone will agree. Good, glad that's settled. Now, Hans Zimmer is a competent and prolific composer and the movie soundtrack he composed for 'Crimson Tide' back in 1995 was 'quite good'. The main themes of which (determined millitary intent and soaring millitary pride and elation being the top two) would be categorised for this purpose as a 'piece' of music. I gave two examples of the moods and tones they set but in fact they are one, the morph as the on screen action evolvs. No matter how great a 'piece' of music is though, when you hear it for the one thousandth time it will become unbearable. Imagine if the very same music for the Batman 1 movie (which i thought was great and idealy suited for that film) was then used for every single action movie for the next ten years, how sick of it would you get? A lot right. Well, if instead, that 'type' of music were used then it would be ok because there would be a lot of scope for variation. Here is the problem i have with the original 'Hans Zimmer' 'Crimson Tide' composition . . . . . . . . the very same piece ( not type but piece) has been used in over 100 . . . that's 'one hundred' productions since Crimson Tide. Usually productions by 'Jerry 'cookie cutter/same camera filter' Bruckheimer'. I'm serious, since Crimson tide the very same 'piece' has become 'the' piece associated with anything remotely millitary in theme from The Rock, Black Hawk Down, Gladiator, Pearl Harbour and King Arthur to name just some of the movies that have the very same piece. Then it pops up in countles TV show such as E Ring, The Contender, The Apprentice and load of others. Every time i suddenly hear it again my heart sinks at the formulaic nature of its use. Now i've even noticed other composers aproximating it. If you listen to the sound track to the Ghost Recon Advanced Warfighter game it's very close. Now, finally, to my point. This Zimmer 'piece' has begun to pop up in various Armed Assault user vids. The vids are often very nice but as soon as I hear the Zimmer music over them i can't bear to watch any more. I just watched the exquisitely produced 'Zodiac' ArmA video and although it had some variation in the mix the Zimmerism kept rearing it's ugly head now and then. Pleeeeeaaaaase people, in the interest of variety don't use that piece any more. It was a good piece ten years agao but has been hackneyd to death now and its time to put it to rest. An artistically and technically inferior piece of music would actually be preferable simply due to the fact that it has one thing the zimmer piece doesnt and that is freshness.

I know what you mean dude. The music is intentionally designed to be story like. The same story told over for ten years kind of gets a bit dull though.

It's not whining, it's discussing. You must get a better grasp of the English language. Something is not defined as whining merely due to the fact that you don't like or dissagree with the negative critique they are expressing. Whining is when there is no sollution and a person just re hashes over and over his displeasure with no intention of finding a way around it. This thread is discussing options etc therefore it's not whining, it's just your lack of a grasp of the lexicon that brings out that response. I'm sure BIS are aware of the problem because of threads like these and i'm sure they will give extra attention to optimising the game as much as possible. That, plus getting a faster system will go a long way towards mitigating the issue.

I"ve overclocked my graphics card and i've turned off absolutely everything in the nVidia control panel. All the anti aliasing, anistropic and v sync, even tripple buffer thing. Still got the problem.

Personally i'm still interested in seeing straight ArmA footage so most of the time would like no music as i cosnider the games sounds to be just as intersting as the graphics. For movies like Zodiac though a soundtrack is needed. Well my main point was a general one, it was to complain about the ubiquity of one specific piece of music. I like to download and watch lots of vids but in a casual yet enjoyable way. If i had to go into Moviemaker and edit every one it would defeat the purpose. This isn't about taste, according to my taste the Zimmer piece is a darn good piece of music. But i've been hearing it again and again for the last ten years in sooo many movies and tv shows and now a game and now game footage. Again, not about taste, its about variety. This isn't a live or die issue i know. I just started this post to bring the blandness of Bruckheimerism to attention. Jeez i forgot Armageddon, i think it was used in that too. I'm thinking of downloading alllllll the examples i can find and cutting scenes together to show just how over used that piece is. It will be a huge project just to make a 5 minute vid to make the point and will take months but might be an interesting venture. If anyone has any editing flair then leave your contact info here and i can do all the searching and cutting and writing and you can do the constructing.

Dyslecsi, i like your video's, they are very well produced. I wish you had a dual 8800 sli uber system or something so we could see AA in all it's glory like that great one on the french site. Can you make some vids of some good SP and also MP action. Some good infantry fire fight stuff.

I think my system is within minimum recommeded specs. Athlon XP 2.4, 1 gig ram, nVidia 7600GT. I set the float point thing to zero, all the way to the left. I set allllll the graphics options to as low as i can get them with a res of 1024 768 and i stillllllllll get mouse lag. ??? As an experiment i even set res to like 640 480 or whatever teh lowest is and all i had on the screen was plain green blobs everywhere and i stilllllllll had mouse lag. . . . . so it's not a system thing. I've seen gameplay vids of guys with high settings and full distance turned on but they seem to have a smooth and fast gun pan.

Wow Darkreaper you seem so insightful. Please tell us more.

I think it's a question of how you translate what would happen in real life to the mouse/keyboard/screen/speakers experience. Obviously BIS recognise that they can't go total simulation. I bet they don't even for the Army training version of the program. Somethings just don't translate. Reality doesnt always translate as strange as it seems and if you get too literal then it have have the opposite effect. Some out of left field but pertinent examples. Animators can not draw characters to proportion, if they do they appear very squat, so they have to elongate their bodies so they appear normal. That's also why animated characters ended up with three fingers instead of four i believe. Also, the Greeks, masters of preciscion at the time built the Parthanon temple to such exacting standards that engineers and architects even today are in awe of it. It turns out though that they had to put a dip in the edge of parts of it because if they made it realistically straight then it would appear to bulge out. So what i'm saying is that the same principle applies mentally so some aspects of translating realism games, which i think you will agree have something in common with animated characters and buildings. Sometimes they have to make a game a little unrealistic in order to get a realistic effect. Sounds strange i know but if it was good enough for the Ancient Greeks then it's good enough for me. realistically simulated mass etc doesnt feel real to me, it feels dream like. So, i want that compensation added to make it feel natural to me.

Waika i agree that anything over 270 degrees should encounter some resistence with the panning of the gun. Strangely enough you get just that in Ghost Recon when prone and you don't get it in AA. Go figure. I think this is also a bit of a sytems thing. it seems people with uber systems have a sharper experience. I have an Athlon XP 2.4, 1 gig of ram, nVidia 7600GT. . . . i guess it's not enough even though it meets the minimum. It also has the effect of looking worse than OFP in some ways when i playing with the settings low enough to run near smooth. But even then the gun feels like a heavy boat. He he i do love the M249 though so i guess i'll stick with that for now. I guess in a year or a year and a half when i finally have to upgrade whether i can afford it or not i'll get AA that is patched to a level of total or near total smoothness in every aspect and the upgrade in graphics will be a nice change for me. I'm willing to put the love into the game as it has such great pedigree.

Waika sure you can't snap a gun far to the left and aim in the time it takes you to twitch in real life. But guess what, you know why nobody complains about that in real life? Because the gun has weight so when you feel that resistence it registers as something you would expect from a gun of however many pounds an M16 or whatever weighs. A mouse on the other hand weighs next to nothing so when you try to move it and it's simulated counter part on screen isnt reacting to how your brain calculates it should move based on the tactile feedback from your hand then you gt a jangling clanging sensation in the 'realism' monitor of your brain, just as you would int he real world if a heavy rifle was suddenly able to move as if it weighed nothing. See, that's another take on what is and isn't 'real' in a game. There are many things you can do in real life such as perhipheral vision etc that you can't simulate, yet, in a game so what we are saying is swings and roundabouts, compensate for the disadvantages of what we lose by giving us a bit of a boost in other areas. Maybe if the mouse weighed ten pounds it wouldnt feel so freaky to have the on screen gun lagging behind it like a heavy barge in the water but it doesnt, it is light and we want 'imersion'. Imersion is the best way to capture reality and if you break down the feeling of imersion for some 'symbolic' representation of reality rather than keep everything intuiiton based then you have lost more than you have gained in the end. I think that was Ghost Recon 1's secret. It was a good balance between being dilligently realistic and 'if you will excuse the crude langauge' anally realistic. I for one think the game looks beautiful for those that have a fast enough system to run it. I played it on line with some cap the flag and the game play was there, just was lagged up so i couldn't enjoy it. The bare bones are there, all it needs is some tweaking. If there are two camps then why not give us options. I don't even mind if they insult us by calling a responsive gun swing 'arcade mode'. Just make two game types 'vetran' and 'regular' as they already have and people can choose which server they want to play in. I mean, even our type of ArmA will still be considered heavy on the sim side by most online FPS players. We just want a smooht running game witha gun movement/aim that corresponds so the actions of the physical thing in our hands and not a translated, adjusted, symbolic estimate of how 'in fact' a gun would move. it's a key point i think. ArmA is the only thing out there that will suit most of us. I don't think i could play it though if those few small things arn't changed or at least given as an option. That would be a pity cause i have massive respect for BIS and there is no other dev i'd rather give my forty or so pounds to.

Well i don't know how to mod so where else would you suggest i focus my whine energy?