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Everything posted by Varis
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Airborne insertion, air support. Combined arms infantry+AFV. Some of it takes a lot of work to script for good interaction some not so much. 1-2 vehicles of a type per side is more than enough in one location, if it's well designed. Hints in some critical spots where players get easily stuck. (2 ARMA 3 campaigns I've stopped because I got stuck at "find this guy" or "figure out what to do with this guy to trigger next phase" kind of "puzzles"). Usually play just PvP multiplayer though.
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i seem to have seriously broken my patrol script
Varis replied to lordfrith's topic in ARMA 3 - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING
Doesn't ARMA have crash dumps/stack traces? -
ARMA 3 turns five today! How are you going to celebrate? I will probably continue work on some BECTI game mode code. It's us the community that make the game not just BI+partners. Some resources for you to recap: https://steamcharts.com/app/107410#All ARMA 3 took 3 years to really pick up steam. Also the tail was long and thick, with total of 4 million copies sold in 2018 https://www.pcgamer.com/arma-3-review/ Original review. Some things hardly change at all - just replied to a thread about these things https://www.polygon.com/2018/4/26/17285564/original-pubg-most-popular-arma-3-mod Steam's #3 game was born here https://www.uleth.ca/dspace/bitstream/handle/10133/3768/MACK_AMY_MA_2015.pdf Anthropological view on ARMA 3
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I'd say it gets pretty close with the Apex Edition which is almost like a bundle within a bundle, heavily discounted. I guess somebody will buy these as gifts and make BI rich
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And here comes the offer...
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Zerty's Mod has been picking up steam lately and there's some exciting features on the roadmap. Could be a good foundation to build on since the code is available and everything. FWIW I started a semi-independent experiment on BECTI/Zerty gameplay. The aspirations for now are: A) Bring air units more strongly into the meta B) More focused gameplay and intensive teamplay C) More fast moving mission, eliminating uninteresting slack/downtime
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Hi GEORGE - I could not find a link to the original script, but it's included in eg. Zerty's Mod of BECTI - https://github.com/zerty/Benny-Edition-CTI-0.97-Zerty-Modification - look under Addons
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Currently playing on top of a script by Fluit and Bl1p (random AI skill). Grumpy would you have the converted values as well or did you put them into the trashcan? BTW love the names you gave to your troop quality levels I guess one answer could be to leave aiming accuracy (not too high, results in broken experience) but adjust reaction times etc.
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So far I'm quite impressed with the mode, it's elegantly streamlined and the design feels well executed. Just had time to try it briefly in single player - that and CoOP require the use of zeus functionality to get the AI moving anywhere, something which most potential players probably are not well familiar with. Mode gets the player quickly into action without too much configuration (but still a good array of options to select from). Some key functionality of ARMA such as supports and vehicles, as well as commanding, are well exposed but rationed with hard timers and don't get into the way of infantry action too much. Surroundings are probably not always well matched to the action as the mission location is either random or set by the player - variety is pretty much guaranteed though. One of the major gripes so far is lack of minimap when playing infantry. Sounds small but it's a bit of a nuisance when the mode is so easy to get to otherwise. The capture bar could be a bit more conspicious as well. Overall, shows lots of promise. A step up from KotH while being miles more easy going than heavy learning intensive modes like BECTI. Might be interested to try and run this on a PvP server in a few weeks. Has this been playtested a lot?
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Any idea if this site is reliable https://comparegamehosting.com/game/arma-3/ ? Sounds like it's written by someone who actually knows the stuff, they also claim to have done considerable research and the results end up being pretty much the usual suspects. Not as fishy as one site which listed most providers with a number of reviews and 5 stars, with the few 4 stars and the odd 3 star one. Or then you'll just get good performance and service in the vast majority of cases, unless you go with too much a budget plan for a busy server. I guess server load would have 3 determinants: Players -> go with CPU, BW AI -> CPU (BW if also lots of game objects/data?) Mods -> CPU, disk How much SSD helps could depend a lot on the provider. Kingston same as most major brand SSDs used to be more marketing than technology, with a handful of labels offering the true superior performance. Also many hosting companies run hardware that seems to be enterprise grade but is dated (slow DDR3 memory and so). Even more don't list any specs or explain how many game servers are running on the same hardware. I guess the largest providers might even put servers / virtual machines on a cluster and migrate the load around as needed, and mix gaming loads with loads of other profile. Datacenters today are pretty advanced. In the end the value is in large well recognized brands and you can't stay in this business if your performance is constantly bad. Edit: Despite mentioned as being expensive by one .au reviewer, Streamline-servers seem to offer the dirt cheap option for a small ARMA server in the EU. Amazon hosting might be a great option if you need flexibility, compute optimized instances would be best for ARMA: https://aws.amazon.com/ec2/pricing/on-demand/
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Anti-Air Vehicle Ranges and Effectiveness
Varis replied to HigherDimension's topic in ARMA 3 - DEVELOPMENT BRANCH
Great discussion too bad about the attitudes. I guess the problems in ARMA3 would be because of A) missiles B) radar systems and C) because missiles never score proximity hits, for some weird reason or just limits of the simulation. As an air/AA player C) feels a bit strange - proximity hits were quite a bit thing in the 20th century and feature in iconic games, primarily Air Superiority and Flight Commander. Anybody have an idea how they work in DCS? Anyway more proximity hits would be a much welcome solution as it makes the effects less rigid and flexible - pilots could gamble the system by flying back for repairs or making that one last attack and risking another hit. My impression of ARMA's modelling and realism is really favourable - for sure it's way above say Battlefield, but quite understandably behind DCS. However scoring hits with guided munitions seems a bit too deterministic, effective and the kills are often hard kills, would probably expect more mission kills or semi-crippling hits, especially on aircraft (ground vehicles do get these fairly often, so at least BI can claim they have done their job there). In Flight Commander I kind of got used to the idea that my missiles are defeated by evasive maneuvering, countermeasures, jamming, ground clutter, cloud layers or just steer off course just because they feel like it and in any say 5v5 confrontation the last exchanges are with autocannons 1950's style even though it's the expensive 1980's top-tier BVR fighter jets we're talking, before it's time to turn tail and evacuate your few surviving aircraft to an emergency forward base due to fuel leaks and whatnot. I find it a bit sad that combined arms games like ARMA and Battlefield are a bit drawn to the long-range ATGM troll meta with attack helicopters. Would like the action to be more based on nap of the earth flying, helis making pop-up and bob-sideways attacks and so. This I think works to some extent, when there are big hills it does block AA defenses. However when you poke your nose out there's fire coming your way in often just a few seconds. Radar lock-ons may be too effective, you'd think there's at least some countermeasures used against various radar - at least jettisoning chaff should have a chance of breaking lock-ons. Also flying in game modes like Zerty's mod BECTI can be annoying, since long-range / AA vehicle radars seem a bit too good and as soon as you go above 10m, there's the beeping again. Pretty hard to fly around the island (as in, to exit your base) when the terrain is predominantly flat. A bit of a l2p I guess, use the terrain what you have. Or just spam ATGM at max range Tiering ATGM missiles and helicopters based on range, sophistication of the platform, etc could be an idea. Mission designers and BI take note. It seems fixing these kind of issues usually involves switching your preferred game mode. In KotH I used to be able to shoot pawnees, even low-flying CAS planes etc down with the shoulder launched missiles. I'm not sure what changed but now it seems almost impossible and that equipment is pretty much useless. I think flares > missiles in KotH - my pawnees have surprisingly good survivability nowadays. I haven't heard of AA vehicles being bad though, especially not being dominated by kajmans and such, the problems in KotH seem to lie elsewhere. Are you sure KotH doesn't mod its vehicles? Yeah I guess the "short range AA vehicle" argument applies. Consider what kind of a system the tigris/cheetah is: it's a dual weapons platform, not a highly specialized one trick pony designed to outrange attack helis. It's very common for tigris users to also shell soft ground targets with the cannons. (Ie. you can't play hard counter type arguments.) But guess that could be debatable as well, in WarGame the "short range" cannon based AA are specialized heli killers, in HIND the scene was like all kinds of IFV based autocannons are firing at you all the time and there's few really dangerous AA threats around, in Battlefield 2 even jeep-mounted HMGs (practically hopeless in ARMA3) were enough to make short work of helis in competent hands etc. BTW much of the equipment in ARMA is not hot out the oven in 2035 but often has a long lifecycle already behind it - take the Kuma or Mora, think both had already served well when the AAF bought them refurbished from some European nation, and who knows how long they've yet served after that. A lot of the systems are more like modern day in the game. But take a look at Zerty's mod of BECTI (Jammy Warfare server) - technically it's not even a mod as you don't need to install anything to play. They gave the longer range (SAAMI) missiles to the cheetah and tigris. Result: nowadays helis are considered "flying coffins" and few people fly them, or they're just used very occasionally - we had just one good run when the enemy for some reason didn't seem to bring any AA, things changed quickly though. I gather this missile is the same that is used by the standard AA Nyx - maybe you should try that as it's available in KotH? It's a bit sad the titan seems almost useless in comparison, while the SAAMI is overly good, but as I said there's at least some ways around this in the game. It's a bit artificial to discuss the issue with no connection to game modes, as the context strongly affects the player experience. KotH doesn't even have the real long-range SAM systems because they don't fit well to the idea of the game mode. You've been at the receiving end of this game design. Now that the big beef is handled, some miscellaneous observations: Have you tried flying the helicopters? Good to know the alley from both ends and I just love how in ARMA these things don't seem to be just plain "me rock, u scissors" considerations, just like in about any good game really worth its salt. And that's why it's good to have these discussions, the points come out. I'm just starting to work on things closely related to the subject and potentially could solve something, at least for me and a part of the community, so it's good to understand all the fine points that affect things. BTW have you considered using terrain to your advantage - I know also tank drivers tend to do a bit of "peeking" as well so maybe AA vehicles should learn it too? I fathom "aimbot for AA vehicles" might not be in for gameplay purposes - a tigris makes very short work of light helicopters if the gunner is any good and the pilot doesn't take precautions not to be exposed for anything but a very short and violent period. Anybody have experiences of the new anti-radiation missiles? Are they very effective against competent AA vehicles? (Think you'd be supposed to turn the radar off until action picks up, I've started doing that but the ARMs don't seem to be in the meta yet.) Yeah I might have put the discussion to General since it's not about the dev branch. Anyway, couldn't agree much more with your passage: This lack of threat leads to specifically the gameplay strategy of staying at max altitude over the AO and being uncontested except by other helicopters, almost never by ground-based AA vehicles which SHOULD be the primary threat and concern for helicopter pilots. Instead, nap of the earth flight with limited radar visibility should be the norm as that would actually require a level of sneakiness and vulnerability that would be open to a lot more opportunities for engaging helicopters with other weapons, and also because that's how helicopters have to operate to stay alive in a contested AA zone. Just the solutions and even the problems (Xian *cough*) are a bit different and more involved than may be apparent at first. -
How do you plan your scripts/systems?
Varis replied to Harzach's topic in ARMA 3 - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING
+johnnyboy Modding is usually more about learning "how to do this stuff with game X" and more creative than your typical coding jobs where somebody has done most of the planning already. A bit similar to starting in a new job/project esp. if it's in the "please tell us what technology to use" phase. -
How do you plan your scripts/systems?
Varis replied to Harzach's topic in ARMA 3 - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING
Also it could be extremely fruitful to have a mentor... just someone more experienced that can answer your quite basic questions and give some advice/ideas. But I guess it's more of a luxury to most. -
How do you plan your scripts/systems?
Varis replied to Harzach's topic in ARMA 3 - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING
You are talking "software engineering" and everything around it. There must be tens of thousands of books about the subject. My top layer is the people layer. Is there a leader to the project, who does marketing, collects user feedback, and who codes what module / area etc. Then there are process and practice areas. How do you record issues or how do you track your progress and plan the scope of upcoming features. Do you have users who will do most of your testing? Read a short description about the Scrum process, it gives you a de facto industry standard how it's done in the professional world. Pay attention to the backlog, sprints, sprint grooming etc subjects, they can be useful ideas/areas to you. One important aspect is a coding standard. I'm not sure if we have good guidelines for ARMA, but at least you should think about what kind of objects/classes/functions your script needs and how exactly you will name them. Already writing down a couple of names in advance can help you organize stuff quite a bit. Also to break the work into smaller chunks so you can see a concrete progress and can plan better. Tons of planning sounds good but don't overdo it - instead keep it simple and learn from your previous projects for the next. Success rate is higher if you keep it small and easy at start. Also think in terms of Minimum Viable Product - what do you essentially need to create any kind of a complete system? Target that first and add the bells and whistles when you have released the first version, or just want to work on something "fun" for a while and can't stress about milestones etc. Version control (git) is good and when you have multiple developers it's a necessity. However you don't need it at start unless you're really serious - there is a slight learning curve so it can be added later (same for most of my stuff above). Also please consider licensing. Is this open source, public domain or do you want to keep all the rights to yourself? What happens if you go AWOL and don't even read your ARMA messages. Are others allowed to maintain your code or make their own versions to suit their fancy? -
Troop quality (for commanders, mission editors)
Varis posted a topic in ARMA 3 - MISSION EDITING & SCRIPTING
This is a bit of a complex question - how would you implement this modding idea, so it's useful to mission editors and players? Troop quality (skill) is modeled in many strategy games using various methods. In ARMA 3 it seems to usually be some kind of a slider or a figure. What if it was presented as a discrete set of categories, mostly related to the level of training (experience) the unit received? This could make skill levels and troop types more distinct and flavoured to the player. For example we have the following levels in Universal Military Simulation (from memory) Regular Veteran Crack Elite WarGame: Red Dragon Militia Regular Shock Elite For example, a commander playing a mission could select to buy some troops as Shock instead of Regular - for an additional price. I'm quite interested in prior art and experience that we have in the field. So far I've just read the nice little script by Fluit and Bl1p which randomizes the skill of your AI troops. At least this gave me an idea of the various parameters that can be changed. Which parameters do you think would make the most sense to modify in order to model troop quality? Strange values could cause odd AI behaviour, or otherwise affect gameplay. How much do we get issues with player comprehension, say another player keeps buying Shock troops and you're at the receiving end facing AI that seems to hit constantly and engages with worrying effectiveness? Is aiming skill too valuable to modify - ie. the players would almost always try and max it? Or is it better to roll as a kind of a flavour mod - yes in Shock troops there are some who shoot really well but it's always up to the individual and many Regular troops shoot better than Shock, still players might want to pay that +50$ for just improving their chances with AI? Is there anything like morale in ARMA? Eg. poorly trained combatants might freeze in panic or flee. Besides aiming and general effectiveness in battle, troop quality could also affect movement speed, carrying capacity and endurance, since troops trained as special forces have been carefully selected for those characteristics. Also, would this work nicely as a reusable little script, or is does it go too deep to the core mechanics, or will it be too closely integrated with the mission - ie. the specific UI that is used to configure, recruit or build each unit in the game? Taking the idea deeper, there could be specific skill profiles eg. helicopter pilot vs sniper. Also the troop quality could be somewhat linked to the uniform, skill profiles even more so. How do missions/mods usually distinguish between the various types of soldiers that are available? -
Is the server load much dependent on the game mode and mods you are running? I would imagine the default modes to be light (no downloads needed, better optimization etc) as well as say vehicle KotH (few players nearby, no AI) - something like BECTI where each player has their own AI entourage and there are additional assets/features could be much heavier per player, in the worst case at least. So pricing per seat may be a bit funny, but probably still the easiest way to go. Are there much different service levels (besides raw performance cpu, b/w etc) between providers or alternatives for hosting? You could do everything at home and I guess many people would have the hardware, but bandwith (esp. upstream) can be more of an issue. Unless you live in a student village, or are authorized to use company assets etc. Next level would be taking your physical server to a hosting center - this might be the most costly approach, unless you also want to rent the h/w. And I guess would only make sense if you want to run lots of other stuff beside a single ARMA server. At the bottom I guess is kind of full service, you get an ARMA3 server already running and all you have to do is drop in the mission files and configure the parameters to your liking. And maybe there is some support on top of that and some extras like network robustness (DDOS) or admin tools. But what's between this level and having your own box hosted? I guess some companies just sell you a linux shell and some computing resources and it's up to you how to use them. Something like that could be the most cost effective way for a tech savvy user to run their server(s)? Thanks for the links, interesting stuff.
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Already subscribed the summer map, will check it out in the editor later. Looked pretty indeed.
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Congrats on the release! Any guesses when we get European servers?
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Hi guys, new player to BECTI though I did play EUTW/CTI a little bit a year ago. What I gather from the BECTI scene, there's just a small handful of MP servers running, each with a separate developer community around it, plus some versions popping up every now and then with a focus of getting SP/AI feature y working on map/mod x. Or is private MP servers/events also an important part of the community?
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How many servers are there usually running and where are they located?
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BECTI (Zerty's version on Jammy Warfare EU server) is not exactly what I was looking for, but once you have the patience to dig deeper you get to a whole new world in its own right. There is tons of combined arms action with tanks, IFV and infantry. The scale is quite large with the whole Altis island included and it feels like a strategy game that's been implemented with the ARMA3 engine to extreme detail. Of all ARMA modes so far it offers the most consistent feeling of a true military operation. Like Wasteland, it probably shouldn't be on this list because the focus is quite different - there is lots of action against the AI. But there is a PvP side as well and sometimes it can be a cruel world. It's well suited to players with an independent mindset. However there is a long (but not too harsh, if you ask for help) learning curve - it can take lots of time and patience to understand and appreciate the many features and mechanics of this mode. Things like remote AI control, repair trucks, static defenses often aren't things the use of which is immediately obvious. BECTI doesn't actually use a full faction lock, but an interesting upgrade system where blue and red factions are initially locked, but through upgrades they can access the whole pallette of green vehicles. Much of the strategy in the mode revolves around which areas the team is pushing, with which tactics/tools and what the chosen upgrade set looks like. Lifecycles are an fascinating subject! OFP seems to have been published in 2001 and the franchise is now old enough for the first players to have started families that also play ARMA. I've seen similar developments in the WarGame franchise (6.5 years running) with different playstyles emerging, some fragmentation to mods and the initial competitive community splintering to small old groups doing their own things or moving on to different franchises. But ARMA has had a longer time and a stronger push to mods - seems there is a strong fragmentation to unique playstyles - looks like it's written all over the tactical/milsim community with a number of units having their in-house mission builders that cater just to the specific playstyle. Thanks I'll check out your suggestions in time as well! TBH ARMA looks like a scene where game mode tourism has a place and is more of a solution than a problem - there are so many interesting and fruitful aspects to the game, many veteran players seem to switch between modes as well. But occasionally you find a mode that offers something new and interesting, and you're locked into action for hours, or to discussions on discord about the mode, ARMA, life and everything.
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Yes I guess in say the setting of BECTI the mod developers would have to first figure out the workaround interface and script convoys back to shape, THEN expose those functions in the custom player menu so the players can set valid parameters that work just for their type of convoy. Mind you this is not something you would expect from your average ARMA player but players of BECTI already spend time building and arranging their tiny private task force (and driving AI is kinda central to how you can utilize the available assets). In a milsim context I'd imagine that to be the group leader or convoy master, and then zeus... All in all, possible but quite a bit of work from a number of people involved. BI could even provide several ways of implementing a workaround and the relevant parts of the player community can then figure out what works the best just for their circumstances. We'll have to just go with what we get but of course it would be best to fix as deep as possible, while learning valuable lessons for ARMA4 engine design. (Exposing more engine internals kinda has a tasty ring to it, BI could review what can be achieved with such an approach. Performance might be a consideration for any large scale adoption of deep APIs though.) I would be very surprised if there wasn't already such a watchdog or a more complex mechanism to address the same problems! Almost 30 years back we had this little game (named OMEGA or something like that) where the gameplay basically consisted of creating algorithms (code) for your robot tank to avoid obstacles and to engage enemies. Access to an OBSTRUCTED flag was one of the key elements.
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I would not read too much into it. For starters it might not make sense to spend just a little effort if you cannot fix the issue. A dev team could address such issues when it fits their schedule and there are no higher priority items in the backlog. With decreasing effort on ARMA3 such fixes will become less likely - don't think they'd be any beef for 3rd party teams. 1) Best algorithms would probably be more complicated, at least say iterate in .5m increments or something. But if there was a trigger created and the mod script could catch that, it could be a way to fix issues in specific circumstances. 2) Destroyed or able to be driven through/over. We have very similar issues in infantry movement - any KotH infantry player will bump into it when moving between ground/building floor, through doorways, etc. There is probably a number of reasons why destructible environments are not ubiquitous in today's games (we started to have them already some 10+ years back), just updating all models could be tons of work. AI driving problems I encountered just recently while playing BECTI. It's amazing how the AI cannot even follow a vehicle on a seemingly easy, almost straight road. There are at least two sides to the problem - first is the AI developing a problem in the first place and the second is how to reliably recover from it (I guess time used is less of a concern). When the AI drives its nose into an obstacle (often small rocks etc - should they be destructible?) it seems to get almost totally paralyzed. Simple backing up theoretically might make it recover. Sometimes it just wants to drive over impossible rocks (and that's already possible in ARMA3...). Game engines seem quite hairy and fixing all that would probably be a humongous amount of work. It's a small miracle ARMA can be modded to the current extent without things breaking left and right (and speaks volumes about good engine design).
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The only possibility might be Zeus mode. You will be facing mostly just AI and a tank is trivial to acquire - provided the zeus thinks it's a good idea. The level of skill and communication of the rest of the crew can be an issue, too. Zeus experience is very variable because you're basically looking at unorganized groups of random people. Some people know how to make the best of it. But your range is from guys in rubber suits teamkilling each other while the zeus tries to figure out how to play basket ball with mortars to casual milsim with combined arms and low entry requirements. It's still a great game mode and it's accessible to new players. Tell the zeus you're new and would like to try out some armor action (a marshall or a rhino could be great at the beginning) and if you're lucky you might have an ear. And of course don't overlook infantry. It's a combined arms game - infantry and armor elements are always supporting and opposing each other.
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The OP was intended as a bitter and satirical rant why ARMA fails to deliver really good combined arms gameplay because of the poor game modes. I realize the point didn't come accross well and much was lost into analyzing the details. Actually your reply is a bit confusing, because I'm used to people coming to these threads with their strong opinions or personal agendas. ARMA3 doesn't need combined arms or nerf the tigris and things will be just fine or whatever it may be. But I guess it's not the way how the ARMA3 community here develops forum threads To be honest, I'm not 100% clear what I actually want - in the way of being able to specify what would satisfy my needs if it was actually presented to me. I was hoping you guys could help, at least with suggestions, opinions or observations. Regarding well-designed game modes, there's the question whether I should focus on the core of intense, meaningful PvP teamplay & an extensive selection of vehicles integrated into the gameplay - or to expand into the million relevant things around those. My comparison points are games like Eve Online, which puts 50 000+ players simultaneously on the same server and they will form massive teams with highly defined specialist roles to fight each other - in the background you have various levels of logistical, political, publicity, financial and strategic goals to pay attention to; to a lesser degree the failed Heroes & Generals brought similar aspects to gameplay but it was a rather sad ripoff so no more of that. Also you have the likes of Battlefield 2 and Planetside 2 with well designed game modes that bring non-stop infantry and vehicle action to the same control area with multi-way interactions. No I did not try the events yet, I guess they could be very exciting esp. in terms of high-grade teamplay. The main reason is that there doesn't seem to be many events that would be promoted very actively - mostly it seems to be small groups hosting regular events on their home servers (and those are mostly co-op too I think). Anyway, FWIW I created the following matrix to further analyze the contenders and to explain what I regard as good or bad things. Perhaps this at least adds detail if not clarity as well. I realized I should probably go to a 1 to 5 scale to bring out the nuances better, arguably there are more differences than what you can read from the table. 3 = good 2 = modest 1 = poor Matrix is in https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1w4k7LKNGwUXvORrr0d8s4-yqY4dM_grDwTztbs3-ooU/edit?usp=sharing in case you want to look at an updated future version.