Operation Arrowhead roads and Visitor 3

[cctoide 0]

I'm afraid I already know the answer to this, but is it at all possible to use roads from roads_e with the current version of Visitor 3?

When trying to add an OA road piece to the V3 road list, I get the "object doesn't follow requirements for road object (are there all named points present?)" error. Putting aside the fact that I have no idea what OA did that required changing how roads work, is there any way around this?

I saw someone post information on a way to hex edit P3Ds to decrement the ODOL version number so the A2 Buldozer could view OA objects, but I don't know if that would help in this case since it seems like it can read the object file but isn't finding the points it expects from A2 roads.

Has anyone run into this before, or has nobody tried using the new roads yet? Or is this expected and the reason people are asking for new tools?

[icebreakr 3100]

BIS needs to release the MLODS of roads but most probably we'll have to wait for updated version of Visitor (v3.1 or something like that). For now use A2 content or replace roads by hex editing, moveobject app or something like that :)

[bushlurker 45]

sortof expected...

Visitor requires MLOD road parts with "memory points" so they snap together... the A2 ones were supplied as MLODS and installed directly to your P:\ drive as part of the BIS Tools installation process...

To use the OA roads properly, we'd need at least a pack of MLOD OA road p3d's... I'd imagine that these at least will be forthcoming at some point... whether they're accompanied by updated tools pack? - we can only hope... :)

B

*edit - Ice beat me to it! :)....

what he said...

Edited July 21, 2010 by Bushlurker

[cctoide 0]

Ah, I see. I hadn't realized why the unbinarized versions of Roads2 were distributed with the tools.

I'm eventually going to use both A2 and OA roads on this map, so hex editing the references in the PEW/WRP is probably not a good idea. I suppose I'll wait for the new tools and lay down the A2 roads in the meantime. Thanks for your replies.

[ebanks129 10]

I've got the roads working using the hex editor tip that was mentioned in this sub forum earlier:)

[cctoide 0]

Do you mean hex editing the references in the map file, or changing the ODOL version of the road objects? And are you saying you can place them in the editor with the roads feature?

You can place them as regular objects if you're using OA Buldozer, but the problem here is being able to use them in the road builder, which needs snap-points defined in the model.

[cctoide 0]

Well, for those interested I can say that changing the paths with MoveObject does indeed work, and doesn't crash V3 or cause other problems like I expected it to. Obviously there's no road outline shown and it's not something you want to do without backups, but it works. It does leave the road network defined as whatever road type you changed it from, though, which might cause problems later... I'm not sure.

As far as I can tell, though (and I should have really noticed this sooner), there are no standard 10 degree road pieces in the roads_e PBO, unlike the Roads2 PBO. There's stuff like 15, 22 and 30 degree turns and the nomenclature is different, but no pieces that match the ArmA 2 roads, which would be necessary for the MoveObject method to work properly.

So I guess waiting for the new tools is still the only way to go. Sucks since it kind of hangs up the rest of the island creation process... roads take a lot of heightfield editing and I have a feeling the time to re-import a heightfield grows along with the number of placed objects.

[shezan74 11]

Yes, i'm waiting too. In this time i'm working on new A2 map.

[cctoide 0]

I think I've figured out a way.

I was sitting here earlier staring at Visitor when I thought I'd check out if any of the OA road pieces matched A2 ones. Fortunately, it seems BI basically recycled A2 road pieces with different textures to make most of the OA roads. And since we already have unbinarized A2 road pieces, I came up with an idea.

Basically, this is how they match up:

[b]A2 road type : road width[/b]
asf1 : 12m
asf2 : 9m
asf3 : 7m

city : 10m
grav : 6m
mud : 5m

path : 1m

[b]OA road type : road width[/b]
asf1 : 12m
asf2 : 10m

dirt1 : 10m
dirt2 : 7m

path : 1m

So:

[b]OA : A2[/b]
asf1 : asf1
asf2 : city

dirt1 : city
dirt2 : asf3

path : path

I figured you could make "impostors" out of the A2 road pieces that fit the requirements, and create your own CA\roads_e to keep in P:\ and use only in Visitor and Buldozer. The binarization process would turn that into references to the files in roads_e and the game would simply load the relevant OA files, without ever knowing how they got there.

I then thought that to make them actually look like the OA roads in Buldozer I could swap the textures in the unbinarized A2 road pieces. After a while texture swapping with Mikero's MoveObject (could have done it in O2, but it was simpler this way) I have a bunch of modified A2 road pieces with Takistan road textures.

After all of this is done, I renamed my extracted P:\CA\roads_e and created my own. I put the altered A2 files in P:\CA\roads_e\Roads and copied the rest of the original roads_e to my own roads_e, including the CA config. I then added these roads to Visitor.

There are a few problems with this method. First, some of the roads don't look exactly like they do ingame since they did some odd UVing with the OA asf2 using half of the asf1 texture. Changing the textures on the A2 city terminator pieces caused Visitor 3 to hard-lock (probably due to the curb mapping), so I left these unchanged. There's also no asf1_asf1 crossroads in A2, so I cheated with another asf1 crossroads which makes it look a bit odd.

The most serious problem is the lack of 10 degree curves in roads_e. The altered Roads2 pieces look fine, though, so my solution for this for now is creating my own cct_tkroads pack with the altered curves for all road types. When/if BI releases their roads it should be a simple matter of using MoveObject on the PEW to replace my own roads. If they don't release 10 degree curves for whatever reason (which would also have to be added to the game files), then it'll just have to be a permanent dependency.

My only doubt about this is whether I'm in the clear with regards to distributing my altered roads pack. I don't recall any guidelines against it, but I'm not sure if I'm allowed to redistribute altered (albeit unbinarized) BI models publicly. If someone knows whether this is OK, I'd like to know.

Here's some screenshots of how it looks:

- In Visitor 3.

- In Buldozer, the hackiness is obvious.

- In the editor, it looks nearly perfect.

- Ingame, some of these intersections don't look like they're meant to be used.

I should probably note that this I'm not giving any guarantees with this, and I can't really offer any support. I haven't run into any issues yet, but this might turn out to be a flawed, useless method. Worst case, you might have to re-lay all your roads when the official roads are released. Either way, if you're impatient to start using OA roads, this is one way of doing it. Backup your PEW and other important files before inserting the roads into your islands. Once I know whether it's OK to release the altered roads I'll look into doing it. Have fun!

[bushlurker 45]

Well done cctoide!

An innovative approach!

I don't think you should worry too much about distributing your roads pack - I don't see any real difference between what you're doing and say, unit recolours, or me & Betons Summerplants pack... you haven't unbinarized anything or intend to distribute BIS stuff outside the "BIS game world"... still, perhaps you should PM an appropriate Mod - Wolle maybe... he'll no doubt be happy to guide you officially...

I've pulled a similar "imposters" trick here & there in my P:\CA folder too... where one or two A2 objects have direct A1 equivalents - the 5m Svodidla road barrier for example - I've edited the A1 MLOD model to have "memory points" so they snap together in the editor, then dropped that model into P:\CA\wherever\ as a replacement for the A2 one... In Visitor you get the convenience of snappable objects, whereas in-game it just uses the original A2 equivalent binarized model... not quite the same thing, but a similar technique...

B

[shezan74 11]

Maybe BIS could release the roads MLODS... i don't understand why they're waiting so much time to release something that will increase the visibility and the activity around his product...

[icebreakr 3100]

I guess I'll keep the island requirement for A2 after all ;)

[shezan74 11]

I guess I'll keep the island requirement for A2 after all ;)

Me too, but in the actual stage of my new work those requirements could change often ;)

[cctoide 0]

Well, I'm about ready to release the roads. I've changed the roadway LOD texture for dirt1 and dirt2 so they sound like dirt roads. I also changed the named properties on the dirt1 roads so they show up properly as unpaved roads on the map... oddly, that seems to depend on the roads_e you have under P:\CA when you export/binarize the island rather than the roads_e the game actually loads.

[[aps]gnat 28]

I've edited the A1 MLOD model to have "memory points" so they snap together in the editor, then dropped that model into P:\CA\wherever\ as a replacement for the A2 one... In Visitor you get the convenience of snappable objects

Long ago I did similar in A2 to make a custom "road_invisible" (only used in Visitor3 editing) that snapped together, making it much easier to lay these bits underneath Runways.

Only problem is, I forgot what I did. I thought it was only the "LB", "LE" etc points to do this ...... but seems I must have added the ".sp_abc_A_0" etc as well.

Is that what you did ?

Any idea what the difference between "abc_V" and "abc_A" and "def_A" etc is ?

(either way its easy enough to mimic the A2 MLOD road definitions)

I'm considering "making" and releasing the OA road MLODs with all these snap points redefined, but theres a LOT of OE roads to re-do 1 by 1 :(

[digitalcenturion 20]

Well, I'm about ready to release the roads. I've changed the roadway LOD texture for dirt1 and dirt2 so they sound like dirt roads. I also changed the named properties on the dirt1 roads so they show up properly as unpaved roads on the map... oddly, that seems to depend on the roads_e you have under P:\CA when you export/binarize the island rather than the roads_e the game actually loads.

Please do release, I need them for an ongoing project of mine and I am sure many others do as well.

Long ago I did similar in A2 to make a custom "road_invisible" (only used in Visitor3 editing) that snapped together, making it much easier to lay these bits underneath Runways.

Only problem is, I forgot what I did. I thought it was only the "LB", "LE" etc points to do this ...... but seems I must have added the ".sp_abc_A_0" etc as well.

Is that what you did ?

Any idea what the difference between "abc_V" and "abc_A" and "def_A" etc is ?

(either way its easy enough to mimic the A2 MLOD road definitions)

I'm considering "making" and releasing the OA road MLODs with all these snap points redefined, but theres a LOT of OE roads to re-do 1 by 1

If cctoide's approach work, wouldn't it be a bit redundant do manually redo them?

[Gamerz 10]

UP ! Now we have the Roads of OA in the new package of BIS tools but for me that doesn't work, Visitor 3 need an update ??

[=kct=blackmamba 44]

ive got my runway in as a road but my problem is,

they are lined up in the editor the terrain is flat but i have gaps between the road sections all over.

and the rpt file says something like: Performance warning: Search for 19: runway_main_ep1.p3d was very large (1080 m)

i could place the runway like objects but the problem is still there.