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Pundaria

Knife proposal

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Huh? I would expect them to carry a knife or at least some kind of multi tool. Not as a weapon, but as a tool.

Most military personnel carry a Leatherman or a similar tool when deployed, the ones I've known over the years always have 1-3 backups, and plenty of them carried small knives/switchblades. My personal favorite would be the Iraqi dagger/short scimitar that was in a flashy sheath with a tassle. :D Unfortunately that was stolen sometime last year.

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Sorry for bumping an old thread... but...

I have been playing Arma2 on pvp servers for few days, and already had few chances to use a knife. As there's none, I simply closed in and shot.

Guns run out of ammo, SD weapons aren't really silenced. Without environment(wind, rain) or other noises, it's not possible to sneak up to someone or shoot an SD weapon without alerting enemy. -- IMHO.

I don't want to pretend I know anything about SF Ops, because I don't.

All I can say is that it would be very fancy, to walk up close and use knife on an unaware guard.

Before you blame me: I dont play COD, but Splinter Cell xD

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I never carried more than a swiss hunting pocket knife with arrestable 9cm blade and the usual 18 function swiss knife tools on it. The ones with Big Knifes usually were the wannabe Rambo type "see I'm a soldier now" guys. Bajonets or combat Knifes are not issued anymore in most european armies.

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Like was said in the first post, why have it on your gear and you cannot use it.

If what we are to play is to be realistic, or close to realism as in being a military simulator,

then lets have it where what we carry can actually be used.

As for the being able to use a knife aspect, I think having one availiable would make the game interesting, whether the SF or

whomever use one or not is irrelevent, because this is a game, does it really matter who uses one and who doesn't,

I think it really comes down to can you use one and how, and when, would it work, and do you want to use one.

Would make for some interesting missions requiring stealth or even situations that are close quarters,

you obviously are not going to go chase down an AI or some one to just stab them.

When I dont need it I have it, but when I dont have it and need it or would like to have it then I'm SOL.

Edited by Gnter Severloh

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IRL - if I needed to kill someone silently without using a firearm I'd just snap their neck, no need for a knife. Otherwise the entrenching tool, edge sharpened up more, would work.

Although IRL would vasty prefer to not engage at that distance. That being the difference between a military spook and James Bond.

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again, people have it in their head that a knife is some how some kind of unholy super weapon capable of killing easily and indiscriminately. a knife is a hard weapon to wield in an efficient and deadly manner. especially if facing some one who also knows how to fight, and/or in body armor.

although it would be HUGELY amusing to clobber some one over the head with a shovel from behind. :p

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IRL - if I needed to kill someone silently without using a firearm I'd just snap their neck, no need for a knife.
Uhh thats not so easy if you're no Hollywood action movie actor. Human bodies cant survive tremendous hazards, just a leeson learned from countles accidents I saw in the volunteer fire and rescue service.

The major point is...you dont go stab a men whos is with 3-12 other armed men, no mater how good and stealthy your appraoch is.

Thats the point...we play battlefield situations with hundreds of unites here...now go and stab the tyres of my BTR60. We don't need another bad implemented feature.

One main reason why Combat Knifes and Bajonets are o more issues ist simple...try and stab a men in body armour...good luck.

Even the simple balistic nylon layers vests from the 70's could stop a Knife...

Back in the 18. Century several silk shirts worn on top of each other did quite well in affaire d'honneur duels.

Edited by Ulanthorn

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Uhh thats not so easy if you're no Hollywood action movie actor. Human bodies cant survive tremendous hazards, just a leeson learned from countles accidents I saw in the volunteer fire and rescue service.

The major point is...you dont go stab a men whos is with 3-12 other armed men, no mater how good and stealthy your appraoch is.

Thats the point...we play battlefield situations with hundreds of unites here...now go and stab the tyres of my BTR60. We don't need another bad implemented feature.

One main reason why Combat Knifes and Bajonets are o more issues ist simple...try and stab a men in body armour...good luck.

Even the simple balistic nylon layers vests from the 70's could stop a Knife...

Back in the 18. Century several silk shirts worn on top of each other did quite well in affaire d'honneur duels.

Must do a number on Taliban man dresses then. Bring on the knives.

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people have it in their head that a knife is some how some kind of unholy super weapon capable of killing easily and indiscriminately.

who said it was some super weapon? its a knife, a blade, why have it on you if you cant use it,

I dont see the point of decorating a soldier with a blade and then he cannot use it, surely you all must agree with that,

if I cant use it then it shouldn't be on the uniform.

try and stab a men in body armour...good luck.

Well you dont but this aint no knights in shining armor where the whole body has armor on it, most kills are made either by

slitting the throat, stabbing in the neck, under the arm pits, even in the artery in the thigh the back, there are gaps in the armor.

I can build missions where I can use a knife the game does have an editor, and you can play the game anyway you wish too.

Realistic or not does it really matter, if i want to use a knife I will, its realistic if I can pull it off and kill a guy in the game in a

situation where it may be stealth related, or close quartes, againsted the AI that would be an interesting feat to say the least,

but I'm sure it can be done, but right now we would never know.

I think it would make for an interesting weapon to use, aint no one said you have to use it, everyone has their preferred way of taking out a soldier.

Me Im with it or with out, it, if it were implemented, I'd use it somehow, if not, then at least fix it so that its not on the uniform.

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Well you dont but this aint no knights in shining armor where the whole body has armor on it, most kills are made either by

slitting the throat, stabbing in the neck, under the arm pits, even in the artery in the thigh the back, there are gaps in the armor.

thats the point...how do you propose to model that in a game like arma, you would need precise hitzones all only lethal from a narrow strike angle.

Thats what I meant with bad implementation. And realism will matter since this is a game played im multiplayer, in my case 90% of the time.

Edited by Ulanthorn

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Snap their neck? You must be kidding me. You think it's that easy? You watch too many movies.

Imagine having your throat cut wide with KA-BAR. You can't even whisper for help, then you die.

I agree with Günter Severloh. It would make the game more interesting.

@Ulanthorn, simply, by action menu. You come close to AI from the back, choose "Knife Kill" in action menu. Animation is performed. AI falls dead. Done.

But first, you'd have to carry a knife in your inventory.

In Arma2, crawling is the most quiet of all stances/movements. I disagree, walking should be.

Edited by Vultar

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Snap their neck? You must be kidding me. You think it's that easy? You watch too many movies.

Imagine having your throat cut wide with KA-BAR. You can't even whisper for help, then you die.

I agree with Günter Severloh. It would make the game more interesting.

Ka-Bars are overrated. I own two of them, one Camillus and one Ka-Bar made...there are better Knifes for cutting throats ;) In general...Utility Knifes are bad throat cutters, try 7" Satoku cooking knife...it performs better in the throat cutter role as a Ka-bar, KM2000 or Glock Field Knifes or similar tools.

You will notice that more modern military Knifes do not even have pointed blades, and rather high angle grind...resultng in a more dull but long lasting endge...often serrated for cutting stuf like ropes or plastics.

Knifes are more tools as weapons nowadays and the new models refelct that.

The last issued real Fighting Knife I know of that was designed to kill was the WWII Sykes-Fainbairn Dagger...but that Dagger had zero utility capability.

The AK-Bajonet I was once issued was a Joke...I never took it with me...dull, soft steel, single side grind blade and unergonomic grip.

Edited by Ulanthorn

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I've edited my previous post, please read it.

About KA-BAR, I only gave it as an example as it's blade is 17 cm long.

I remember that knives were implemented really good in Conflict Vietnam.

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I remember that knives were implemented really good in Conflict Vietnam.
Well when I read the manual for my Ka-bar is stated fighting as the very last application, and it was not issues anymore in the 70's..the Ka-Bars in Vietam were private aquired equipment...this is noted in the Ka-Bar booklet..."...fathers passed them to their sons deploying to vietnam..." or similar phrase.

I use it for digging and chopping firewood a lot outdoor, thats were it excels over a Santoku ;)

Btw: this was the worst Knife I ever used outdoor...all it could do well was looking aggressive...well...this Knife was produced back in the time when Rambo movies were popular.

Edited by Ulanthorn

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Günter Severloh by your logic the shoelaces should be also functional and many little other things "which could make it interesting"... :cool:

If the knife feature isn't animated properly, the AI can't use it effectively and its more work for very little gain BIS should imho improve and implement other features which should work better.

CQB and hand-to-hand fights are bit better portrayed in other games with another engine and animation system. You can't always get what you want!

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I never said I didn't want the knife nor wanted it I'm neutral on it, it just would make the game interesting if you were

to go about to using it in a mission you or another had created.

By my logic if you read between the lines what is currently functional minus the knife is enough.

The game allows one freedom to do whatever their imagination can come up with, and most of the game we play is custom,

havign access is what its about, could you imagine what type of mission you could create small or big if.. you had the possibility

of using a blade this is what it is about access, being able to do what wasn't done before.

Yes with the current setup with the kill spots if you will on the body of a character, be it AI or a player, there would have to be a much

more detailed, or specific spots to take out a guy. Most Ai in the game dont wear body armor or vest so a knife could work if one were to

be in a situation that would allow it to work.

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Well when I read the manual for my Ka-bar is stated fighting as the very last application, and it was not issues anymore in the 70's..the Ka-Bars in Vietam were private aquired equipment...this is noted in the Ka-Bar booklet..."...fathers passed them to their sons deploying to vietnam..." or similar phrase.

I use it for digging and chopping firewood a lot outdoor, thats were it excels over a Santoku ;)

Btw: this was the worst Knife I ever used outdoor...all it could do well was looking aggressive...well...this Knife was produced back in the time when Rambo movies were popular.

They must have come back, I was issued one in the 90's.

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Before you blame me: I dont play COD, but Splinter Cell xD

Ask yourself this: Is the knife wasn't part of Splinter Cell/COD would you still think it was "missing" in Arma 2?

Also, if you're constantly getting into a situation where you've run out of ammo and are still in direct combat, perhaps you need to plan better instead of falling back on a knife? ;)

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Hey, even Swat 4 got a quick punch button in the end... although I think BIS might have to revamp their antiquated weapon system somewhat to properly make it instead of yet another item which we cycle through with the fire mode key :)

The quick punch was only to lower the morale of your more zealous enemies so they would surrender. Also seriously, why would anybody think knifes guarantee a silent kill? If you stabbed somebody in the back, they would be screaming from the pain and wouldn't die instantly. Even if you freaking slit their throat, they're still alive albeit gurgling out of their throat and alerting everybody. It would be much more silent if you just shot them with a silent pistol.

Edited by Cookieeater

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Im into 18. century battle reenactment, and from the contemporary writings like "Abhandlung über den kleinen Krieg" (Hauptmann Johann Ewald, 1785) it is very clear that even back then a musket or pistol was prefered over a sword or any blade . If you had to "draw blank" something already went horrible wrong. Even back then Bajonets where a emergency backup. I Guess the whole issue with knifes and military use is more biased by movies and nowadays some games which are cross biased by movies inducing such strange wishes.

I rather have better rifle handling simulation in game over knife wielding.

And what's wrong with a good silenced Pistol?

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IRL - if I needed to kill someone silently without using a firearm I'd just snap their neck, no need for a knife. Otherwise the entrenching tool, edge sharpened up more, would work.

Snap their neck? You must be kidding me. You think it's that easy? You watch too many movies.

Imagine having your throat cut wide with KA-BAR. You can't even whisper for help, then you die.

Uhh thats not so easy if you're no Hollywood action movie actor..

No, I don't believe everything Arnold or Chuck does is realistic. More trust what I learned during my martial arts days, instructor was a real old-school hardass who also taught practical street fighting techniques. It's true that your typical kid trying the hard yank trick shown in the movies is going to fail miserably, but did not say that was how I'd do it, did I?

As for cutting the throat, it's fast - but not instant. Not able to yell, but can make a lot of noise if they want to. And there is the fabric issue. Recall the old nickname for Marines - leathernecks. Came from the uniforms way back, hardened leather collars are good protection vs blades.

As far as knives - K-bar is only fair. The khukuri is far better and meant for serious fighting. If you prefer western blades, hard to beat the gladius.

And Ulanthorn is right, even the 18th Century a blade was already a weapon of despiration to be used only in preference to a large rock. Asking for knives in the A2 core for use in CQB is not justifiable, maybe in a mod at best.

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This is an idea for a knife.:rolleyes:

1. It occupy a slot in gear (those slot containing radios, watch, etc.)

2. When using the knife, R buttom becomes a lethal stab when enemy is unaware

3. By holding shift, it enters combat mode. The characters only walk.This prevent abuse.

4. Upon combat mode, hold LMB and drag is to wield your knife

5. Hold RMB is for defence

6. Since this is a game, 3 hits kill a person(We use Medic as other games, I dont see why we cannot tolerate a little bit gaming style in knife);)

I always hate seeing a knife hanging on my bag but couldn't use it. And people always make up knife thread but without constructive advice for BI. So I am making this to urge a "knifed" ARMA 2 or 3.:p

Dont want to be rude but this is just silly. Then its really better to have CoD like knifing. You cant knife AI anyway becouse you need to be prone to get close otherwise they "hear" you or... hack you. In all this years of PvP since 2001 I was maybe 2x in situation to actually stab someone. M9SD did the job usually. If you think about it, in game like arma throwing knife would make more sense.

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