Knife proposal

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well, it's obviously the tactic as you can shoot AND stab with the same weapon ;)

I know, i was kidding. :p

Point of 'knives have no more place in warfare' still stands though, except for the odd exception that proves the rule. Unless you have some knives that actually do what i described.

[ProfTournesol 956]

I know, i was kidding. :p

Point of 'knives have no more place in warfare' still stands though, except for the odd exception that proves the rule. Unless you have some knives that actually do what i described.

Modern warfare maybe, but if you love historical mods, that would ease the modders work.

[BKnight3 0]

I know, i was kidding. :p

Point of 'knives have no more place in warfare' still stands though, except for the odd exception that proves the rule. Unless you have some knives that actually do what i described.

Again, tell that to men that fought in Fallujah.

[NoRailgunner 0]

So any ideas how to implement melee combat into Armaverse?

- without clunky/ugly animations

- AI ability to use hand-to-hand and/or knifes for close combat in a very effective way too

- using knifes for other actions eg tactical throwing, "OMG triple-kills!!"...

Rough guess is that implemting melee combat is too much pain for a very little gain. There are many other important things that need to be implemented, fixed or tweaked by BIS first.

[Vultar 0]

...to go home to FOB and rearm. Running around screaming and trying to stab is no option....this kind of thinking lead to horendous casualties in WW1 when some british generals still considered bajonet assaults to be usefull tactic.

out of ammo out of action...simple. Retreat is really a usefull option...

You really know nothing about war.

What we do have in Afghan now is a Joke, do you read me? Joke.

Do you think that another world war would allow you to RTB?

Funny man you are. Base would be already destroyed and you with your miserable few bullets would be all that's left of your "reammo".

Retreat? To where? Enemy MP would find you anyway, or someone would sell you.

Regular rifleman doesnt even have a pistol, not speaking of a silenced one...

[back to Topic]

@Norailgunner, As I said before, through an action menu, coming very close from behind and choosing an option. Animation is performed. Done.

I guess we cannot even dream about fight-system in arma. Anyway, why would we? Simple use of knife is all that I need considering what this topic is about.

Edited November 15, 2010 by Vultar

[NeMeSiS 11]

Modern warfare maybe, but if you love historical mods, that would ease the modders work.

Yeah, but it isnt really BI's place to add things in just for modders, they can ofcourse, but where should they stop? There are millions of requests like this.

I still think that something semi-proper can already be made now anyway, remember that we have gestures now so we no longer need to use the ridiculous workaround PhilCommando had to use to make somewhat proper swordfighting in OFP.

Back when ArmA2 was just released i had some ideas about hand to hand fighting with zombies, however i couldnt be bothered to actually start on it.

Again, tell that to men that fought in Fallujah.

Did i mention the odd exception that proves the rule?

Edited November 15, 2010 by NeMeSiS

[Daniel 0]

I still think that something semi-proper can already be made now anyway, remember that we have gestures now so we no longer need to use the ridiculous workaround PhilCommando had to use to make some proper swordfighting in OFP.

*Sniff* I miss the good old days. UKF's bayonets, Phil's tiger...

[-Snafu- 77]

...to go home to FOB and rearm. Running around screaming and trying to stab is no option....this kind of thinking lead to horendous casualties in WW1 when some british generals still considered bajonet assaults to be usefull tactic.

out of ammo out of action...simple. Retreat is really a usefull option... suicide is a bit off if you're not a Zero Pilot in 1945.

The First Rule of Modern Warfare: Never Bring a Knife to a Gunfight *Col Richard Szafranski, USAF, Retired*

1. Run down to the library, grab a book on WW1 infantry tactics and Gary Sheffield's Forgotten Victory.

2. Adding knives and/or bayonets will not turn ArmA 2 into COD.

[NeMeSiS 11]

UKF's bayonets

While i had fun with them, you have to admit that they didnt make for very good gameplay the way they were implemented.

[HyperU2 11]

It works so well in the SLX mod I can't see why it would be hard to implement for vanilla. That can't be the problem.

[ProfTournesol 956]

While i had fun with them, you have to admit that they didnt make for very good gameplay the way they were implemented.

I'm currently working on a Roman / Barbarian mod for OFP (look at the sig and follow the link), with A LOT of melee action WITHOUT ANY SCRIPTING, only twicking the existing BIS OFP config of the shotstroke simulation for weapons. This ability was sadly removed since ArmA, but as it was existing in OFP, it should be quite easy to re-implement it.

[NeMeSiS 11]

I'm currently working on a Roman / Barbarian mod for OFP (look at the sig and follow the link), with A LOT of melee action WITHOUT ANY SCRIPTING, only twicking the existing BIS OFP config of the shotstroke simulation for weapons. This ability was sadly removed since ArmA, but as it was existing in OFP, it should be quite easy to re-implement it.

A flaw i have with strokefist is that it makes you play an animation, which means you are stuck while attacking. Also, it only allows for only 1 attack.

Philcommando worked around this (The being stuck part) in OFP and while fun to play, it still didnt feel very elegant.

[ProfTournesol 956]

A flaw i have with strokefist is that it makes you play an animation, which means you are stuck while attacking. Also, it only allows for only 1 attack.

Philcommando worked around this (The being stuck part) in OFP and while fun to play, it still didnt feel very elegant.

Well, as the stroke was given at the end of the anim, the trick is to shorten and divide the striking anim into several parts (let's say, two parts), with the stroke given at the end of the first part. And it allows an infinite number of attacks.

[Daniel 0]

While i had fun with them, you have to admit that they didnt make for very good gameplay the way they were implemented.

We adored them, actually making bayonet kills became the stuff of legend in the group at the time. As long as no one killed anything "civilian", like buildings or cars. Then you got auto-stabbed by your team mates. :p

So yeah, implementation wasn't perfect, but they made for some purely epic moments when rounding corners that no other game feature can boast.

Typical example: You round a corner to secure a street for a crossing. There's a bad guy stood right there with his back to you. Do you shoot him, and alert any nearby squads to your team? Or do you take a few steps forward and scream "AV IT!" over TS2 as your bayonet stabs him in the guts?

Edited November 15, 2010 by Daniel

[NeMeSiS 11]

Well, as the stroke was given at the end of the anim, the trick is to shorten and divide the striking anim into several parts (let's say, two parts), with the stroke given at the end of the first part.

I dont really get how that should work, but then i didnt play that much with animations.

And it allows an infinite number of attacks.

I dont really see how as strokefist without any further script just damaged a unit in front of you, i guess that would still allow for dodging, but blocking for example would be impossible to simulate without any scripts i think.

@Daniel, yeah, i remember using them against zombies when i was out of ammo. It was always a gamble which damage-doing script would kick in first, really gave you a rush. :p

But in the end Russian roulette with knives isnt that much of a gameplay addition.

Edited November 15, 2010 by NeMeSiS

[Vultar 0]

Ok, closing time. I recommend reading past 4 pages for those who havent done that yet.

Then add something constructive (no nonsense please).

My constructive add:

Read past 4 pages.

SLX mod's knife is a big improvisation. The next BIgame/DLC must be very professional and polished.

[Ulanthorn 10]

Again, tell that to men that fought in Fallujah.

I don't see that Falluja was taken with knifes as a main and indispensable intrument. This remebers me more on this the incident in Prizren 1999 when a german officer opened fire on a enemy intending to neutralize the first time since WWII...with a 9mm Handgun. The effect was zero...but this encouraged his men to open fire as well with Rifles. This does not mean that the P8 was indispensable...any firewapon could have done it. btw: in this video you can hear how wrong the G36 sound is in ArmA2.

[onlyrazor 11]

I actually agree, the AI is pretty vigilant, but, I have several times, successfuly raced across a dune with an ATV, jumped off, and the enemy soldier ran away. Of course, he was a crewman my Predator drone forced to dismount. And I set his skill to pretty low.

Here's a little story:

BIS dev: Gentlemen, behold! I have implemented the knife... But in retrospect I wonder why.

Game journalist: Did you do it because people asked you?

BIS dev: No, I WAS DRUNK, I DIDN'T KNOW WHAT I WAS DOING.

Consequentially, ArmA sales plumetted.

*disclaimer* The aforementioned story does in no way imply BIS developers are alcoholics.

[Zipper5 74]

Okay, it's obvious this thread has run its course.