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Pundaria

Knife proposal

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Movies glamorize knives. As a five time combat veteran, I can honestly say that the thought of pulling out my knife to kill someone NEVER crossed my mind. I felt much better at using my M4 w/ and Acog 4X on it than getting close to an armed combatant in an attempt to be a Hollywood star.

I used my knife for fart more useful things. Opening cans, looking for mines, and winning cash at who could stick their knife in the bullseye from 20 feet away (lost plenty of $ as well lol)

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I understand and believe the naysayers and combat vets that knives aren't used frequently in military armed conflict however...

...melee actions are. Every day. Whether it be a shove, punch, rifle butt, bayonet, knife, club, machete etc... these things are frequent occurences and relevant to combat.

The argument that these actions are arbitrary to a mil-sim or that "resources are better spent elsewhere" -I disagree. Arma needs more dynamic action on the ground imho, and implementing this by the Dev's would be a necessary step toward a livelier infantry experience.

House clearing, unruly mobs, non-lethal arrest and not to mention the multitude of mods that could finally be fully realised. I'd pass on the new map/infantry/armour/air skins for a little more dynamic action.

Edited by froggyluv

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My father was stationed in South Korea for several years and never had to use his knife for combat-related situations. He only used it for basic needs, such as opening things, cutting ropes and so on. He was never in any sort of a situation that required melee combat of all those years he was stationed there.

As -Total- said, movies and (other) games glamorize knives and melee combat. I don't want ArmA to be one of "those" games where people just run around knifing people.

But, what do most people here know? Not much really. How many of you have actually been in combat and experienced it? Have you ever came upon a situation that required any sort of melee? Do you know somebody that was involved in melee combat? What are your sources? My source is my father, in which he told me he was never involved in melee combat, he never knew anybody that was involved in it either.

I'd like to know your source froggyluv, how do you know that melee combat happens everyday with soldiers?

Edited by Nicholas

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But, what do most people here know? Not much really. How many of you have actually been in combat and experienced it? Have you ever came upon a situation that required any sort of melee? Do you know somebody that was involved in melee combat?

I'd like to know your source froggyluv, how do you know that melee combat happens everyday with soldiers?

Oh come on mate. You don't think that with all of those house clearings in Iraq that "hands on" never happened?!? Just about every time a civilian population clashed with it's or a foreign military their are beatings and hands on arrest. I'm not just talking about rambo knife fights between ninja soldiers. Take a look at African conflicts, ak's and machetes rule the day.

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Seriously though, what are your sources? How do you know that those house clearings involved melee combat? Just because it happens in movies, games, and other fictional stories doesn't mean it actually happens. It might happen, but it's probably VERY VERY rare. And what do you know about Africa either? I'm curious about your sources.

Such rare incidents just aren't worth implementing into ArmA.

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Seriously though, what are your sources? How do you know that those house clearings involved melee combat? Just because it happens in movies, games, and other fictional stories doesn't mean it actually happens. It might happen, but it's probably VERY VERY rare. And what do you know about Africa either? I'm curious about your sources.

Such rare incidents just aren't worth implementing into ArmA.

They happen, and plenty. Anyone that says they don't is either not doing anything hard or wasting a lot of innocent lives in order to not do anything hard. (insurgents don't come outside and let you shoot them)

Also, just because your father was stationed in South Korea doesn't mean they are pointless, I don't know how old you are but South Korea hasn't been actively at war for 60 years. During that war there was plenty of need for melee combat.

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The South Korean and North Korean war is still active. US troops are still stationed in South Korea.

I never said that melee combat doesn't happen, I never said it does happen. I said that my father never experienced any melee combat.

I'd also like to know your sources that it happens plenty.

Edited by Nicholas

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Never used a knife in anger in the real world, but I'd never want to venture into harms way without having one on me. It's better to have one and not need it.

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Seriously though, what are your sources? How do you know that those house clearings involved melee combat? Just because it happens in movies, games, and other fictional stories doesn't mean it actually happens. It might happen, but it's probably VERY VERY rare. And what do you know about Africa either? I'm curious about your sources.

Such rare incidents just aren't worth implementing into ArmA.

History channel had a very cool show called Firefight, which had some excellent play-by-play of melee comabt situations in Fallujah.

But use common sense -if your house clearing trying not to kill every civilian who looks at you funny, theres gonna be hands on confrontation and arrest.

And go google Africa conflicts, there are more miltary conflicts there than anywhere in the world and much of it is butchery.

Knives may be rare, hands on confrontation happens and in mine and many others opinion, a worthwhile remedy to the total absence of action which is probably more rare in RL.

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I don't really want to get sucked into an argument here. But, ArmA isn't set in Africa. Melee combat might happen but it is indeed very rare. All the trouble of implementing such a rare occurrence it into the game just isn't going to be worth it.

OFP up to Operation Arrowhead never has had melee combat, do we really need it? Seems the game has been doing fine without it.

Edited by Nicholas

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Right, it is set in the middle east. Im sure you've heard of Palestinians using weapons other then firearms...Plenty of melee instances in the israeli conflict.

And should those disco dance moves that arma features really take precedence over actual combat?

And OFP did have strokefist.

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As I said before:

OFP up to Operation Arrowhead never has had melee combat, do we really need it? Seems the game and all the players have been doing fine without it.

There are bigger and better things that the devs could be implementing/fixing rather than implementing knives.

OFP did have strokefist, but it was never used ingame for melee combat. And where did I say that "those disco dance moves that arma features really take precedence over actual combat"? I didn't, it's BIS choice to have melee in the game or not. It's their game, they design it the way they want it. We'll see if they implement it or not.

Edited by Nicholas

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There are bigger and better things that the devs could be implementing/fixing rather than implementing knives.

This seems to be the staple argument of those opposed to adding melee. I can only speak for myself but enhancing CQB would take Arma series light-years ahead of it's current state and yes, melee in some form should be a factor in that. I find the CQB so lacking, that to me it is one of those "far better things". Situations in which I've run smack into enemy AI either while reloading, lost my weapon etc... felt far more ridiculous for having "no action" which doesn't exit in RL.

So maybe you prefer BI spend their resources somewhere else, thats fine for you, not for us. The reason I bring up the disco moves is why isn't there similar outrage by the naysayers over this total waste of resources. How many animations were built for essentially nothing when a half-way decent functional melee system could have been built in its wake.

I just don't understand that.

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It's already in SLX, it obviously can't be that much of a hassle to implement.

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Well then, good for you. And as you can see by this video, that is exactly why we shouldn't have knives in the game, we'd have people running around just knifing. Like what happens in MW2 and I don't want that and I'm sure plenty of other people don't either. People are saying it would be realistic. Well as of that demonstration it wasn't very realistic, if you try to "sneak" up behind the AI they will detect you and turn around.

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Actually the first two times I got shot in the face. But I was in a hurry. :)

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I have to get back to that after I'm done knifing mutants.

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I have to get back to that after I'm done knifing mutants.

Have fun :P

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Reading over the last few pages of this thread, I'm reminded of pretty much every knife thread that has been started on these forums. It always boils down to the same thing:

Pro knife guys: Dude, we need knives for melee in OFP/ArmA/Arma2! Knives are an important part of modern armed combat.

Contra knife guys: No, they totally aren't. Knives are hardly ever used in CQC. Guns are. We don't need knives in OFP/ArmA/Arma2!

Pro knife guys: Of course knives are used in close combat! My dad/uncle/cousin/friend/neighbor says so, and he's in the military. Also, look at these articles I dug up on Google.

Contra knife guys: Those articles prove nothing. Using knives in combat is the exception, not the norm. My dad/uncle/cousin/friend/neighbor says so, and he's also in the military. Knife combat is too rare and doesn't deserve the effort of being added.

Pro knife guys: But it's no effort at all. Look at mod XYZ, where there is already knife combat implemented.

Contra knife guys: Adding simplified melee in a mod is easy. Doing it properly and putting it in the core game is a whole other story. And you hardly ever get close enough to the enemy for melee to be used anyway, so it would be too much effort for nothing.

Pro knife guys: If you never get that close to the enemy then you're a noob. I get close to them all the time and wish I could go fucking ninja on their ass. We need melee!

Contra knife guys: You calling me a noob?

*flamewar commences*

:rolleyes:

Case in point: [1], [2], [3], [4]

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Welcome to the forums, you new here or something? ;)

Hmm. Snarky comment, yes, but lacking wit. You should probably work on that. ;)

Anyway, I was merely pointing out the futility and redundancy of these knife threads. It's always the same discussion that never goes anywhere, while at the end of the day it really comes down to whether or not the devs think it's worth it. (Judging by the evidence so far, my guess is "no".)

But it's still fun to watch, so I guess I'll just shut up now and break out the popcorn. :D

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Reading over the last few pages of this thread, I'm reminded of pretty much every knife thread that has been started on these forums. It always boils down to the same thing:

*flamewar commences*

:rolleyes:

Case in point: [1], [2], [3], [4]

Give them both knives, the winner gets to decide if we get knives or not. :p

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