Artillery is really in need of a counter

[Nicholas 5]

Lethn, it's going to do no good for you posting here about this "issue". The backbone of warfare has always been heavy artillery. It's been an effective weapon against infantry and armored divisions. Very little survives an artillery barrage. There are infact counters against artillery, but they are not in the game modes you are playing. Bohemia Interactive can't do anything about it, which makes your post here rather pointless. They can come out with an update that includes anti-artillery measures, but it's up to the mission makers to implement it into their mission. Addon makers can also make anti-artillery measures, but again it's up to the mission maker to implement it into their mission. So don't come here and complain about the artillery in need of a counter. We're not being "fanboys", we're telling you the plain and simple truth. You just don't seem to understand it.

[Montanaro 0]

There's no point in even..........blah blah blah blah blah x50......GM of a certain game claiming that their pvp system was 'balanced'.

I'll summarize your post for the rest of the forum who don't want to read your moaning.

As I said before, I'm not going to waste my time explaining realism and the "balance" issue, to someone who obviously doesn't have a clue, as is readily apparent in your previous post.

---------- Post added at 03:18 PM ---------- Previous post was at 03:15 PM ----------

Lethn, it's going to do no good for you posting here about this "issue". The backbone of warfare has always been heavy artillery. It's been an effective weapon against infantry and armored divisions. Very little survives an artillery barrage. There are infact counters against artillery, but they are not in the game modes you are playing. Bohemia Interactive can't do anything about it, which makes your post here rather pointless. They can come out with an update that includes anti-artillery measures, but it's up to the mission makers to implement it into their mission. Addon makers can also make anti-artillery measures, but again it's up to the mission maker to implement it into their mission. So don't come here and complain about the artillery in need of a counter. We're not being "fanboys", we're telling you the plain and simple truth. You just don't seem to understand it.

Pretty good post. There are plenty of counters in the game and plenty of ways to stay alive. It just takes practice. You can say nothing in war is balanced, but you can make the case, everything in war has a counter.

The most realistic military sim on the market isn't going to be balanced like your average shoot em up. That doesn't mean arma is unbalanced or unfair.

[slatts 1978]

it is possible to limit how much damage a building takes or how long between arty can fire

so i really dont see your point....digging in is possible too but complex coding, plus again, whats the point..just move

and like what most people say..its up to the person who makes the mission

BIS have their arty module done well..but its up to the mission maker to use it :)

in real life arty can just guess were they fire too :P

plus how is having a counter to everything real? there isnt a counter to everythnig in real life...like a kids bike compared to a truck..can the kid counter getting a smack of a truck?

P.S. remember..its a mobile HQ :P

as my saying goes (well to people who know me) if you have a problem...deal with it..if you cant..get over it

Edited July 8, 2010 by Slatts

[whisper 0]

Incredible!

Lethn, do you at least realise that the missions you play online are NOT made by BI?

They are made by players, and in the case of the Warfare mission you play, it is made by Benny. Who is not a BI employee.

Do you realize that said mission makers could already implement the stuff you're askingfor? Without BI doing anything. And would BI do what you ask for, it would mostly be unused...

Just for your education, in Warfare, I mostly run on a motorcycle as Taki grunt, or car with some AI, with a gun and a Metis launcher. I practically never fly, and barely drive tanks, as well as never use an arty piece as I don't have much clue how to set up one. So I'm not defending my playstyle at all.

I can just understand other's way of playing. And my way isn't better than their way.

Maybe you should try some other gamemode

Hop on the Charlie Foxtrot server, sometime, or a Hold game type server running a AAS mission. This may well suit better your way of enjoying the game

[Lethn 10]

So I take it Whisper that you think that everything should be made by the mods instead of the games developers who actually made the engine? What about the problems with the A.I of which there are many? What about implementing a more sophisticated cover system that allows players to take cover properly instead of just tilt to the side slightly? I think the only thing new I really saw in player movement was the ability to roll when prone which I really liked. What about the way nearly all the vehicles suddenly slow down dramatically when going up a gentle slope? What about the shooting the A.I does?

If you are telling me that is all a problem with the mods then that's just a bloody joke and if the majority of the player base as well as the developers think this then I may as well quit playing because the game will be a ghost town in a year or two anyway.

The way some of you lot are trying to mock me about pointing out perfectly legitimate problems with the game is ridiculous. Oh, I just thought of something, why not actually make it so you can repair buildings? I'd really like to see that put in and it would solve the problem I have with artillery, but no I bet you'll just say it takes too much coding to do it.

Games developers and playerbases that shoot down ideas that would actually add variety and less tediousness to a game claiming that it would "Take too much complex coding" or "It would cause lag" simply don't last long in this industry. You seem to think that I am some sort of spoilt jackass for wanting to be more challenged in a game and actually have some sort of chance of survival when another player attacks me. The reason I say that artillery is cheap, perhaps even cheaper than air is that it is an attack where you can't even fight back effectively. Thankfully air can be shot at when you're a player with AA the A.I is just unfortunately rather useless when it comes to spotting them.

Now fine then, lets forget about 'balance' lets forget about 'realism' so stop accusing me of not knowing what I'm talking about. Let's look at this from a purely 'fun' perspective, is it honestly fun to be randomly killed and have the entire teams base wiped out by a bunch of shells randomly falling out of the sky where the enemy has just simply guessed where you are instead of actually having to physically go there and check?

Actually, don't answer that last part, you're probably just going to troll me again.

p.s. The other game modes are fucking boring, I'd like to see warfare done with just players vs players and A.I squads, forget the whole resistance thing :p would make things go a lot faster too, I've just seen the whole typical 'Go find that person and kill them' scene a million times.

[hellfire257 3]

This game isn't meant to be balanced. It's realistic and war isn't balanced. With regards to the Artillery problem, the solution is a technique called Counter-Battery. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Counter-battery_fire

You can also take our Artillery with Fast Air or QRF units.

[Lethn 10]

If real life isn't balanced then why is the U.S losing to the Taliban? By most of the other peoples logic here the Taliban should be losing because they don't have any tanks, ships or planes.

[Nicholas 5]

So I take it Whisper that you think that everything should be made by the mods instead of the games developers who actually made the engine?.......

I suggest you read my post again.

Lethn, it's going to do no good for you posting here about this "issue". The backbone of warfare has always been heavy artillery. It's been an effective weapon against infantry and armored divisions. Very little survives an artillery barrage. There are infact counters against artillery, but they are not in the game modes you are playing. Bohemia Interactive can't do anything about it, which makes your post here rather pointless. They can come out with an update that includes anti-artillery measures, but it's up to the mission makers to implement it into their mission. Addon makers can also make anti-artillery measures, but again it's up to the mission maker to implement it into their mission. So don't come here and complain about the artillery in need of a counter. We're not being "fanboys", we're telling you the plain and simple truth. You just don't seem to understand it.

[whisper 0]

Wrong. I'm referring to your proposals about building more resilient to arty, arty spotting and such, which all can ALLREADY be done without BI changing anything.

Obviously, AI issues must be handled by BI. Better player movement must be handled by BI. But these points were NOT what you were talking about before. You were talking about functionality already doable by mission makers (in other words : functionality BI has already made)

Same for repairing building, this is already doable, this is smtg I wanted to code back in A1 day, having a truck giving players the ability to rebuild buildings. It's nothing difficult and already there for mission makers to do.

As for being randomly shelled in base, well.... shit happens... once. Warn commander, make the HQ move, base rebuilt somewhere else, go on. If too late, you have lost and game is over anyway, time to move on. So it won't happen often. If Warfare was only Aarty people vs grunt people, then yes, there would be a problem. But this is a minor part, time-wise, of the game. You spend more time doign smtg else than being shelled, don't you? Most of your time travelling (too much, imho, that's why Warfare as played on public isn't my preferred mode), a bit of fighting, etc....

So, re-PS : did you try AAS, actually? I can't see how it can be more boring than Warfare, knowing there's far less moving and far more fighting occuring there, there's no AI.... I still think it would suit your need better.

Or, but the odds are thin, you can find a server running Warfare with settings better for you ... and for me, btw, Warfare without resistance, on lower scale, with all towns equally already taken by both sides at startup, is imho far far better than current way of playing it in public, I completely agree with you there. But no one is running the mission with these settings, even if Benny did a hell of a nice job enabling all these options....

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Problem with Warfare is the complete lack of rules of engagement. Should you not be able to take out opposing forces hiding in civilian structures in a town, essentially making them a free haven? No. But shelling civilian structures (and, implies civilian lives) should come at a great price for those that do. Do you want to shell now and loose the ability for a next strike for a while, or do you wait and deal several strikes?

[SWT_Janowich 10]

Let us reinforce buildings - Let maybe players or commanders spend money or supply on actually reinforcing buildings so that they are indestructable like the bunkers to artillery shells. However maybe make it so that things like satchel charges or explosives will be enough to bring them down, this will force the enemy to actually make a direct attack instead of being so cheap

. Make a player actually have to use their binoculars to sight the position for artillery like in reality - In my opinion players should not be able to randomly pick out a grid and fire away and just 'guess' the location of a base or enemy, this would encourage far more teamwork and organization if players had to designate grids to each other when using artillery

Soo realistic and you question ArmA 2 of being a game-simulator..

[slatts 1978]

why is isaf losing against taliban? mostly tactics

look at ww2....germany should have hammered england but they didnt

on topic

you dont see the point we are making

the problem is not with BIS, your playing a mission by guy just like me or you

[Montanaro 0]

If real life isn't balanced then why is the U.S losing to the Taliban? By most of the other peoples logic here the Taliban should be losing because they don't have any tanks, ships or planes.

:rolleyes:

Judging by your previous posts and your logic, I'm going to have to say you are under 16.

Please stop posting, and while you are at it, stop playing video games and do more reading.

[Lethn 10]

<Abusive comments deleted>

Also Whisper, yes there is stuff like repairing buildings that can be coded in missions, but why should it? Why can't we just give the code to everyone and then let people who want to have overpowered artillery shells in every warfare game come down around our heads? Frankly I just don't see the point in leaving it to the mods because that's just lazy and half-assed.

Edited July 9, 2010 by Placebo

[NoRailgunner 0]

Face it - you cant have all in real and in virtual life. Be happy what you get and/or try to make something on your own. Other devs+publishers give you only the possibility to buy their next hyped and "pimp'd" version of the game. ;)

Moaning, complaining and crying for more is always easier...

To start with you may try simply some or all of the A2+OA modules: http://community.bistudio.com/wiki/Category:ArmA_2:_Editor_Modules

No one is born a master & practice makes perfect!!

[slatts 1978]

again

the point we are making to answer your suggestion you fail to see

but NRG has the answer i couldnt find :P

[Placebo 28]

<Abusive comments deleted>

Making such comments to forum members is not acceptable, you seem not to have learned from previous infractions so you will be unable to post for 1 month.

[cossack8559 10]

If real life isn't balanced then why is the U.S losing to the Taliban? By most of the other peoples logic here the Taliban should be losing because they don't have any tanks, ships or planes.

What? The Taliban hide in caves and among civilian population, if the Taliban were to come out from their holes and engage the British/American forces head on you can bet the Taliban will be destroyed. you cannot shoot what you can't see!

War is not balanced that is fact! it will never be fair or balanced and since this game is a simulator you cannot ask for balance between two completely different armies.

ALTHOUGH, i do think that BIS should make Bunkers protect anyone inside them. the bunker cannot be destroyed yet i still die when Artillery hits the bunker.

[Montanaro 0]

ALTHOUGH, i do think that BIS should make Bunkers protect anyone inside them. the bunker cannot be destroyed yet i still die when Artillery hits the bunker.

You don't have to have the artillery hit you with fragments for it too kill you. The majority of people who die from artillery barrages die from the percussion of the shell. Their brains will fly into their skull, internal organs are smashed etc...even people inside bunkers, trenches, or foxholes. At times these fortifications can worsen the effects since they can channel the shockwave onto you.

[Nicholas 5]

A Bunker Buster can penetrate and totally obliterate a bunker. They also use Thermobaric weapons for caves now.

Edited July 10, 2010 by Nicholas

[-Paladin- 10]

ther is somthing like a counter arty radar the last time i was playing arma 2.

get arty self a radar and start counter arty missions like in "RL" and take the uperhand.

Place one arty somwher else and start gesting from wher its coming if you dont have artyradar self.

Sent scouts out use air units make a Black ops one man solid snake sneak mission behind enemy lines. com with your team planty of oprtunteys. if it still dont work your enemy was just bether.

Isted of playing arma like "evry one is doing what he wants becouse hecan game" soude evry one take a role one is Inf, Armor, Air, CO(watching the map and reporting enemy contacts palying arty and smashing enemys with the BFG´s of Every army in the world.

Arty ist calld King of the battelfield and that not for nothing.