Which recoil model do you prefer?

[ast65 10]

Run and gun? Wth r u talkin bout?

btw.you get used to the new recoil, the more I play the more I like it, you´ve gotta adapt your playing- style (OA in its current itteration is more of a sniper experience (due to the terrain and single shot- only restrictions)).

Only thing that really bothers me is seeing AI standing, firing off in full auto and hitting, knowing oneself ´ll never b able to show the same performance.

Edited July 7, 2010 by @ST

[Baff1 0]

Fully agree. Fired my SKS "sporter" w/30rnd AK mag, and came to the same conclusion. After a single shot, I automatically let the muzzle fall back down to near on target, but when rapid firing, then the muzzle climbs. I think a good compromise could be reached with only having the muzzle climb when you don't allow time for it to come back down.

This, it should not climb unless you are firing too fast.

[arthur666 10]

This, it should not climb unless you are firing too fast.

You are correct. When I say "rapid firing", I mean that I am pulling the trigger too fast.

[twisted 127]

Has no one shot a rifle before? You get the recoil IRL, but with the muscle memory it won't do that ridiculous climbing thing it does there.

now that you ask, of course people have. including me. recently mostly with a pissy little .22 rifle due to low ammo costs. and muscle memory does not magically reaim the rifle for me ever. even with such a low recoil rifle as the .22.

i have to reaim after each shot. using my eyes as much as my arms. over and over and over. that's where the skill comes in, especially making shots at over 100m.

the one thing muscle memory does is to help keep my rifle pointed in the general direction i am thinking of shooting but the rest is up to me. every time.

anyway... i like this recoil cause it takes a tiny bit more skill now for me to take out a bunch of opfor and going full-auto is only an option when they are bloody close. which is the way it should be.

[Rhomen 10]

now that you ask, of course people have. including me. recently mostly with a pissy little .22 rifle due to low ammo costs. and muscle memory does not magically reaim the rifle for me ever. even with such a low recoil rifle as the .22.

i have to reaim after each shot. using my eyes as much as my arms. over and over and over. that's where the skill comes in, especially making shots at over 100m.

the one thing muscle memory does is to help keep my rifle pointed in the general direction i am thinking of shooting but the rest is up to me. every time.

anyway... i like this recoil cause it takes a tiny bit more skill now for me to take out a bunch of opfor and going full-auto is only an option when they are bloody close. which is the way it should be.

ROFLMFAO

no.

[That guy 10]

this is a sim game. not a game game. you have to do things for your self. i like the concept of having to manually compensate for recoil, but the only way for the game to simulate recoil is with muzzle climb. and in most cases, the muzzle climb is very exaggerated. I went for option 2. more manual readjustment is good, but there needs to be more weapon sway when standing. its just way to easy to hit stuff when standing

I have got a whole laundry list of changes and tweeks that i would like to see in infantry combat... but thats for another time

the best simulated shooting experience I have had was with Ace 1. i would just get a weapon and blaze away randomly in the editor :D

[arthur666 10]

I would liken having to continously lower your rifle with the mouse after each shot to having to push the "W" key each time you take a step, rather than just hold it down to walk.

[Naserve 10]

I would liken having to continously lower your rifle with the mouse after each shot to having to push the "W" key each time you take a step, rather than just hold it down to walk.

This.

[suma 8]

OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.

We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.

[cole 0]

OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.

We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.

Great news, thanks for informing us!

[no use for a name 0]

OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.

We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.

Thanks Suma!

[Infam0us 10]

Praise Allah, just bee testing it in the new beta and can't believe it!

[WhoCares 0]

ROFLMFAO

no.

Good argumentation.

And it also explains why they teach you whenever possible to rest your weapon on something like sandbacks and the like (at least in the Bundeswehr).:j:

Just think of it, every millimeter the tip of your rifle strays away is already 10cm @100m, 20cm @200m, a.s.o. (simplifying the length of the barrel to 1m). And 1mm is nothing even while just normally aiming, not mentioning when you release a shot...

[Beagle 684]

I revoke my statement from last Weekend.

After playing a whille with the new recoil, and further shooting on the real range with eyes on aim behaviur i coem to follwing conclusion.

The effect is good per se, but MUST be toned down a lot for .223 rifles and Ak74s. the .308 and up seem bearable bit is also a bit too much.

So I say yes to the new recoil, but please tone the effect down significantly.

[Rhomen 10]

Good argumentation.

And it also explains why they teach you whenever possible to rest your weapon on something like sandbacks and the like (at least in the Bundeswehr).:j:

Just think of it, every millimeter the tip of your rifle strays away is already 10cm @100m, 20cm @200m, a.s.o. (simplifying the length of the barrel to 1m). And 1mm is nothing even while just normally aiming, not mentioning when you release a shot...

Of course resting your weapon will have benefits to shooting, but this is not the case for Arma, we can't exactly rest our weapons on anything(not yet anyways ;))

Between all the rifles I have shot, I have NEVER had recoil that looked like that, I have NEVER had to readjust my aim on a .22 shoulder fired from a standing position as dramatically as he explained, which is why I laughed so hard. It barely recoils, and he is trying to use it for an example in stead of using a real rifle or an assault rifle, not a pea shooter.

At no point have I ever had a rifle that the tip of barrel went 2cm+(For the americans thats not even an inch) up off its mark after squeezing a round as I am TRYING to shoot to kill like it shows in that video from an unrested position. The recoil is 100% unrealistic in that video and the people who said it was realistic have just played to much COD and BF run and gun games.

Give us MilSim if I wanted to sprint around a map no bigger than an airport terminal, and have guns jump all over the place when fired in attempt to get people to slow down, i'll buy MW2. They claim to be realistic right?

[frederf 0]

These people said it best:

I haven't tried the new beta yet but from video.....How I think it should work.First off it should offset by a tiny amount and not just upwards.We are asking for the after effect of recoil which is the body trying to force weapon back down to starting postion(centered on target).This effect isnt perfect in real life and instead alot of times the shooter overcompensates and aimpoint drops down below,sometimes not down far enough and sometimes its offset to either side.

What is happening in beta is after each shot the weapon stays at highest point the recoil sent it too.We do not want this....instead we want the weapon to drop back down BUT not to exact point it was before.If engine does not allow aimpoint to be set below/above/left or right of initial point than at least give us a weapon that goes up and only comes down 3/4 the distance that initial recoil caused.

Also the screen shake is awesome but needs to be looked at again.Take a PKM and fire it standing/crouching and prone.Prone has a beautiful screen shake effect and also the weapon animation is sweet.Leave this prone screen shake setting for all 3 positions and let the recoil be the factor in choosing which position is optimal.Right now with recoil and the EXCESSIVE screen shake while standing,shooting a PKM becomes way too hard.

Realism-wise the new recoil makes no sense because nobody makes it an effort to bring the sights down after firing a weapon. The beta patch simulates a strange kind of muscle stiffness where a soldier keeps aiming where the gun raised its barrel, and that just doesn't happen.

I don't have OA yet but I hate the beta recoil just by looking at it.

Just out of curiosity why are so many people voting for option 2? And before you say "it's more realistic" please take into account:

1. By all accounts modern assault rifles recoil backwards not upwards

2. A little thing called gravity pulls the gun down automatically.

I would much rather as people have already suggested that the recoil automatically re-centres the gun, but with a slight randomised offset - so you have to fine tune the aim.

Absolutely it is very good for player skill to play a part in marksmanship. It is not helpful to say "Oh mouse control is not perfect so everyone must be a special forces marksman automatically instead." The original recoil method is rather undefendable even from the "muscle memory" camp. Aim a laser dot at the bulls eye and close your eyes. Fire 30 shots... will your muscle memory put the laser dot exactly on the bullseye after each shot? No. Will you be aiming at the ceiling because you didn't attempt any ballpark recentering? No.

Picture an experiment such that the rifle had a target card that was a photographic plate. Attached to the rifle is a laser light source that "draws" on the target card. Point A is the starting position when firing. Point B is the ending position after the recoil is absorbed. The path between A and B drawn on the card will be a sort of spike shape as a result of the recoil impulse. It might be up, to the right, probably not down. This might be a rather large spike. However the spike ends in Point B. Point B will be close to but not the same as Point A, easily randomly selected within a small circle.

Subsequent shots will walk Points B randomly around Points A. You might get a statistical "random walk" effect where the B's start to drift one direction or the other but it will be minimal compared to the size and scale of the recoil spikes and easily compensated by mouse and minimal mouse pad. In the perfect statistical case the walk would not go anywhere because the Point A to Point B vectors should cancel out over time.

This should work reasonably well for well-spaced semi-automatic shots. Fully automatic fire is more complex because full recovery is not achieved by the time the next recoil impulse happens. However the same system can achieve "muzzle push" effects if Point A is evaluated at the moment of firing. Point A affects the statistical expected center of Point B. If Point A tends to "walk" in one direction because the recoil spike has not fully recovered and the recoil spike has a directional bias built in.

[Rexxenexx 0]

There should be a setting (same place as blood setting etc) for "Recoil"= Auto(old style) or Realistic. Making it a user setting/preference. That way it doesn't dissuade new users or casual gamers. I prefer realistic when I play locally but when I play online and things start to studder it turns into a timingfest, in that case I like it to be old style. So the option should be client side I believe as to not complicate server settings or alienate new/other users.

[PuFu 4591]

no go for client side options, especially if one plays competitive PvP.

Should be the same for everyone. I have faith that the recoil values have been tweaked further as per Suma reply in this very thread

[Delta 51 10]

I like this new one where it doesn't resettle, however a compromise for the MG's when in prone needs to be set.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Will have to test the new values before I can say much more, but for the 7.62 I think it was pretty much spot on from what I remember from my own (older) 7.62 battle rifle. 3 round bursts with the unscoped M240 isn't too bad either in prone, and getting rounds on target with the M249 isn't hard at all with some practice.

[MavericK96 0]

After testing this some more, I stand by my vote which is that the new recoil is good, but it definitely needs to be toned down. You can barely even put a 2-3 round burst on target the way it is, which doesn't seem very realistic.

[afp 1]

Between all the rifles I have shot, I have NEVER had recoil that looked like that, I have NEVER had to readjust my aim on a .22 shoulder fired from a standing position as dramatically as he explained, which is why I laughed so hard. It barely recoils, and he is trying to use it for an example in stead of using a real rifle or an assault rifle, not a pea shooter.

At no point have I ever had a rifle that the tip of barrel went 2cm+(For the americans thats not even an inch) up off its mark after squeezing a round as

You ever shot AK47? There is nothing like you describe.

[tacticalnuggets 24]

I like the new one, it adds more skill to aiming. But both are automaticaly better than the original arma 2. I cannot stress enough that aiming is a skill that is learned, not done automaticaly.

[That guy 10]

OK. After feedback the muzzle climb with recoil is reduced in OA 71931.

We will be looking for ways how to further reduce the effect for prone / bipod supported stances.

excellent news BIS. just a couple of things on my mind:

1 AI. from what some people have said the ai dont have any trouble reacquiring targets that people do. there must be some way to remedy this?

2 prone fireing/bipod and cirtain weapons. i am thinking about MGs specifically. most GPMGs like the 240 are very front heavy, and as a result there is virtually no muzzle climb when fired prone (and as a result makes firing them in anything but a supported position extremely hard/tiring). the LMGs are the same to an extent (weight and balance).

also with this new addition of muzzle climb, you can now simulate one of the huge benefits of the AK107, in that it has virtually no muzzle climb due to its internal balancing/recoil cancellation mechanisms+ muzzle break. i dearly hope that you guys dont forget about the AK107!

(its a weapon i would dearly like to shoot in real life!)

Edited July 8, 2010 by That guy
i should actually quote what i am respopnding to....

[frederf 0]

I just tried it and I like it way better than default. The mouse dragging down effect is being exaggerate. I'd have to fire 10+ 30rnd magazines to require my mouse to be moved down from the center to the bottom edge of my mouse pad. Ideally I wouldn't have to but it is absolutely not a problem "running out of mouse pad"