Please BIS << addon management >>

[terox 316]

Addon management has been a problem for B.I gaming communities since the first addon was released for OFP.

Those who have followed the game through it's 3 major engine developments and are now adept at downloading and installing mod folders won't realise the hassle it causes newcomers to the game who want to play online.

I have no idea how many players who have bought the game ceased to play because of their frustrations but suspect it to be a fairly high percentage. You only have to monitor the MP forums to see how many threads are raised on the subject. .

It is obvious by the few screenshots that are now available for O.A that BIS has taken some steps into aiding this problem, however (and this is an assumption, because we havent seen the actual functionality implemented and working) it would also seem that BIS don't fully understand what is actually required for the clients.

I believe it is paramount to the company to get this sorted and sorted quickly. BIS are defintely going to lose potential new customers because of this 1 major issue and the community is already split into those who know how to manage addons and those who dont (Which tends to be new blood)

So based on 8+ years of running a B.I gaming community, here is my opinion

1) When a client, using the gamespy browser, selects an addon/mod server to join, one of three things should happen

1. Message appears stating "This server uses addons that you do not have. To download and install them. Click on this "Download required addons" button
   
2. Message appears stating "This server uses addons that are updated versions of addons you already have. Click on this "Download required addons" button to both download and install them
   
3. Message appears stating "This server uses addons that are you have. << connecting >>
   an additional functionality that would be great to have, is a further button "Connect to the community Comms server". which if the client has the application installed would then connect to theitr TS/Vent/Mumble server. Apart from the nicety of this dream button, it would also aid the server admins in giving support to the newcomer
   

Additional error messages could be added for other issues such as server is locked (currently it asks for a password), wrong game version etc

The game should then either restart, loading the required addons or if possible load the addons without a restart. The client shouldnt be expected to tick a "Load this mod folder" from a listbox, as this will cause problems because the average player who suffers from mod management issues wouldnt understand what they are anyway

In it's most rudimentary form, the clickable download button could read from the serverside config file defined by the server admin which opens a URL link/ web page which could then contains some instructions for downloading the required addons and the actual url links to them. This would also allow the server to advertise it's preferred comms application (For now this would be very helpful temporary solution but not longterm)

A better structured solution would require more backend work from server admins and possibly a central repository for major mods and addon packs so that server admins wouldn't need to host addon files from their websites, this would also aid in community wide server synchronisation of say a major mod, which is constantly being updated.

Any system implemented for clientside has to be as basic as possible, simply a message stating click on this button, leaving everything else to be fully automated.

A typical server mod folder load would then for example look like

-mod=@MajorMod;@Server_customised_addonpack.

I'm sure the gamespy browser and gamespy itself could be used to move us in the right direction and Implementation of a (Sickboy 6-updater / Yoma addon sync hybrid) would dramatically improve this situation

Edited June 26, 2010 by Terox

[gossamersolid 155]

Oh boy I'd love this too, it'd make having a warfare version with addons actually viable. For some reason you have a group of regulars and warn them that an addon based version will be on from XX:XX to XX:XX on day X and even provide download links. Then the day comes and they are all like "OMG WHERE DO I GET THESE ADDONZ!?!?" or "I CAN'T FIGURE OUT HOW 2 INSTALL THESE ADDONZ!?!?!one!!!".

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

+1 People need to know exactly which addons they need, if the server has more than 5 addons with a few .pbos per each you get a truncated list that gets cut off with no ability to scroll thru the warning.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

IMO, servers need to cut back on the amount of addons/mods they use. Even if an addon management system like you described is implemented, it's not going to solve the problem if it's going to take you several hours just to download all that crap, especially if you have no intention of ever using them elsewhere.

That's why I don't play MP. Too many servers running ACE + shitloads of other stuff. What I really want to see is a lot more servers running with no mods or minimal addons.

[gossamersolid 155]

IMO, servers need to cut back on the amount of addons/mods they use. Even if an addon management system like you described is implemented, it's not going to solve the problem if it's going to take you several hours just to download all that crap, especially if you have no intention of ever using them elsewhere.

That's why I don't play MP. Too many servers running ACE + shitloads of other stuff. What I really want to see is a lot more servers running with no mods or minimal addons.

Well all I run (unless I'm beta testing my new mode) then it's running no client-required mods. We have ZeusAI running on the server, but whether or not clients want it themselves is purely up to them.

I'd like to have an addon-based warfare one day though if mod management comes into play.

[pipscouse 10]

God bless that man Terox. I am a complete cock when it comes to techie stuff. The issue over not understanding mods and add-ons is the biggest source of frustration to me with ArmA 2. Does it really have to be so esoteric that us computer incompetents get excluded from all the extra content which I would LOVE to be in a position to access and enjoy?

[maruk 80]

You are not right in your assumption that BI is ignorant or do not understand the problem.

Anyway, thank you for the analysis, it is very good from my perspective and surprisingly close to our own overview of this problem.

You are right we did (and will be doing more) some important steps to improve the situation in A2OA.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Don't bring ACE into this, Dawg. ACE 2 is plug & play, with occasional updates that are done with 3 clicks of a mouse button.

95% of ACE servers are running ACE only.

[Tankbuster 1746]

ACE 2 is plug & play,

:lol:

[Darkhorse 1-6 16]

Don't bring ACE into this, Dawg. ACE 2 is plug & play

:232::icon_lol::icon_eek::laugh:

Well, continue to think that man. ACE is one of the biggest issues.

[Nightrain 10]

:232::icon_lol::icon_eek::laugh:

Well, continue to think that man. ACE is one of the biggest issues.

Oh boy....

On topic, I think BI is going in the right direction.

[Kristian 47]

How is ACE the biggest issue? :S

I mean.. It's just a mod.. like any other, except that its downloaded and updated trough program OR stable milestone releases. Its totally up to server host what mod he wants to run. I think BF2 solution would be best and possible afaik:

You only see servers that are running same mods as you.

ANNYWAYS: ====END OF ACE DISCUSSION=====

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

:232::icon_lol::icon_eek::laugh:

Well, continue to think that man. ACE is one of the biggest issues.

Continue to think what? Tunguskas TAB+Clicking in Vanilla Arma Warfare? Not to mention killing TUSKs in Tunguskas.

If you're about the installation, download sixInstaller, install it, launch the Six Updater - GUI shortcut on your desktop, Inet browser opens up, select Install & update, click execute. DONE.

[CarlGustaffa 4]

And now try to get your grand mother to do that (or other slightly computer illiterate friend)... Over the phone... But, it's better now than in its infancy, I'll give it that. But when you had to update the updater almost every time, and you couldn't even just install it over the other one (that would to too easy, no?), and spent hours failing with an outdated updater (that wasn't mentioned anywhere that it needed to be updated), and when you did go look for it, it was a mouse click session from hell due to "not the best" web gui design. And you had to do it not only on your machine, but server as well, and several clan members over phone or msn. Well, let's just say the tears was rarely far away. Loosing two to three hours of a four hour playtime (for most) due to install and update problems isn't "trivial".

Ok, I'm done ranting. For now :p Back on topic...

It would be nice if the management screen was able to grab addons directly, and maybe even put them in some sort of server cache. Maybe autodownload for addons below a certain user set size limit, ask for bigger ones, and ask to proceed if the total of addons exceeds a certain user limit. I don't want to download ACE or other huge addons over a session, but I might accept the server version of CBA or required proper mods of smaller size. Using server cache means that server version of CBA wouldn't interfere with my own "global" addon version. If a conflict is detected, then my global one should be disabled, as I expect the server to provide one that is compatible with the missions they run.

But yes, even the management screen from OA will be helpful in terms of aiding the computer illiterates in our squad, so thank you BIS for that.

Edited June 27, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[gossamersolid 155]

It would be nice if the management screen was able to grab addons directly, and maybe even put them in some sort of server cache. Maybe autodownload for addons below a certain user set size limit, ask for bigger ones, and ask to proceed if the total of addons exceeds a certain user limit. I don't want to download ACE or other huge addons over a session, but I might accept the server version of CBA or required proper mods of smaller size. Using server cache means that server version of CBA wouldn't interfere with my own "global" addon version. If a conflict is detected, then my global one should be disabled, as I expect the server to provide one that is compatible with the missions they run.

But yes, even the management screen from OA will be helpful in terms of aiding the computer illiterates in our squad, so thank you BIS for that.

there would need to be and FTP or HTTP redirection ability... I don't wanna see it pulling directly from the server, talk about lag fest!

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Yes, obviously not from the play server itself :)

[gossamersolid 155]

Yes, obviously not from the play server itself :)

like the missions right now... urghhh it's so painful when 10 new players come in at the SAME time, desync goes to 100k on like everybody playing.

I thought there was a poll a while back that asked what we thought about mission redirected downloads and then I've not heard anything about it.

[Big Dawg KS 6]

How is ACE the biggest issue?

Perhaps it has something to do with how it tears the community... In my experiences, ACE causes more problems than it solves.

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

Perhaps it has something to do with how it tears the community... In my experiences, ACE causes more problems than it solves.

Armed Assault 1 was dead by the time ACE 1 was released - lo & behold you had full servers 24/7 with every mission imaginable from Road Rage to CTF and CTI, COOP...

I won't list the reasons why people don't want to download ACE, but there is one thing for certain, once you played ACE you never go back.

[waylay00 0]

Glad to see others feel the same way I do (and about ACE as well). It's not like I want ARMA to be COD or something, but if ARMA wants to ever gain a larger fanbase, the community needs to realize that mods/addons need to be more streamlined. And despite what anyone says, ACE2, for the average user, can be a pain to install. I don't mean to pick on ACE, but other mods are like this too.

[gossamersolid 155]

Armed Assault 1 was dead by the time ACE 1 was released - lo & behold you had full servers 24/7 with every mission imaginable from Road Rage to CTF and CTI, COOP...

I won't list the reasons why people don't want to download ACE, but there is one thing for certain, once you played ACE you never go back.

I've played ACE... and you're right, I'll never go back... TO ACE THAT IS!

[Big Dawg KS 6]

I won't list the reasons why people don't want to download ACE, but there is one thing for certain, once you played ACE you never go back.

Sorry, but I've tried ACE, and I just don't like it. I don't like anything about it. And I know I'm not alone.

The problem with ACE is that it just does too much. Sure there might be some good features in it, but there are also a lot that some people just don't want. And with ACE, you either have all of them or none.

If BIS does implement a nice addon management system, perhaps we can get rid of huge mods like ACE and try a more modular approach.

Edited June 27, 2010 by Big Dawg KS

[Iroquois Pliskin 0]

ACE brought balance to multiplayer PVP. Never-before-seen COOP action, where if you were to take a hit by a SABOT round to the tip of the tank's gun barrel, your MBT would not magically explode. Projectile simulation, whodathunkit.

I'll refrain from commenting further lest I wish to lower myself to the ignorance of others.

[Zipper5 74]

Uh... ACE only brought balance in the sense that it's the only mod used now in MP, either it or vanilla. Unless that's what you meant.

I personally don't consider that a good thing...

[Defunkt 431]

Though I like ACE and see it as the best addon based extension to the game the real issue I see is that the modding community is far too obsessed with developing addons as a means of doing so. If you look at the example set by Mando Missile, [R3F] Artillery & Logistics, Jones' Mortars, Niceboat's Tank Damage and the like, all of which can be embedded inside the mission (and thus have always been auto-downloadable), it is rarely necessary to use an addon if you're not actually introducing new units/classes.