Jungle Wars: Island of Lingor

[slatts 1978]

I never said that he did.

if you expect you're going to make money off your efforts- you are a fool.

so yea..you did

[W0lle 1042]

Lightspeed_aust, louderthanu, Slatts

Take your problems to PMs where you don't bother the rest with it. And without any insults please. :)

[icebreakr 3100]

eggbeast: go to Corazon and if you look SW of it, there is a T part where rivers meet. Inspect the area near the beach (same side as Corazon) - rock should be around 50m from the coast. No spoiler needed, as this riddle rock has a new location from 1.337 and higher.

[wickerman 10]

ok this is my tactical map

It's 90cm x 95cm - 77,5MB pdf format

Downloadlink per pm

[fruity_rudy 16]

on my side I made several versions of a war in Takistan by code34 for Lingor V1.337

ACE version and NO ACE.

I need the class names of buildings please.

I await your update to put your units on the map ^^

if you ported war in takistan, host game, in debug mode hit god sight, then look at building=classname ..but i think you know that. Thats what i do when i port WiT :)

[icebreakr 3100]

Is there a way to stop Sixupdater creating un-official keys for our addon files? We have an event tommorow with 2 teams and SixUpdater keys caused a bit of a chaos... not to even mention assigning "required addons" that are already in the pack.

[jedra 11]

Six updater only creates keys when the keys in the addon are not V2 signed. Currently the keys you issue with Lingor are not. I need to use the Six Updater keys to keep V2 signature checking working on my public server for example. I think SickBoy posted a request a few pages back.

[icebreakr 3100]

Well, I don't give a damn, someone is messing with my addons.

Instead of asking for V2 keys months ago(!) they go make their own and a freaking chaos is getting out of hands. We can't even coordinate with a team that is using some of sixupdater keys... and event starts this evening.

I'll specifically state in new readme that no-one may create keys and then even distribute(!) them.

Edited April 22, 2012 by IceBreakr

[kremator 1064]

Surely it is up to IBR if he creates keys on not (V1 or V2) and noone else. I can see why he is RIGHTLY pissed off.

[icebreakr 3100]

Not to mention that Lingor used a special version of BRG Africa and somehow SixUpdater enforced @brg_africa folder. Wtf? Yeah, I'm pissed.

Edit: and.... SixUpdater deleted my development version of Lingor, along with units. At first it moved them to @lingor\addonx and on second update all files are gone. Great.... now to reconstruct stuff.

Edited April 22, 2012 by IceBreakr

[kremator 1064]

Just get Sickboy to remove Lingor from SU, until these problems are sorted. More trouble than it is worth at the moment for you !

[J-Guid 10]

I see 4 servers who download Lingor by SU and how this troubles, after this, Lingor been deleted :(

I informed this guys about SU mistake ;) he waiting update :) interesting how mutch peoples download Lingor by SU?! :\

Ice realy, maby have sense to remove it in SU while new version not realised...

[Flax 397]

It doesn't make sense the readme specifically says:

Author grants you, as the enduser, a personal right to download, install and play with the island. This right does NOT include the possibilities to reverse engineer or even abuse content of the island addon in your own addons, games, game content or missions (scripts).

Surely this is enough to show that Ice doesn't want his stuff messed with. I've only released stuff to a squad and mates before and even in that situation it is annoying enough when they edit your stuff without asking so on the scale Icebreakr releases... I can understand why he is pissed off.

[madrussian 347]

@IceBreakr

Having a absolute great time with the latest Linger. Noticed a small thing though. Ambient civs are spawning in all areas of 1.337, except for much of the new territory. (I happened upon this discovery while working on an ALICE2 mod.)

Here's a quick screenshot to illustrate the current distribution of population centers. Assuming the new areas (west and southwest) should get populations too?

In any event, thanks again for Linger and all your other great islands.

[icebreakr 3100]

I've recieved complains that too many civilians spawn. What do you suggest MadRussian? Guys?

[orcinus 121]

I've recieved complains that too many civilians spawn. What do you suggest MadRussian? Guys?

There's quite a heavy concentration in the Northwest, roughly centered on Fernando. Would it be difficult to move a few elsewhere, say to the far Southwest, and West (Pocobay area)? - that might address the concerns of some who find too many civs spawning. Apologies if the suggestion seems dumb; I have only the faintest idea how islands are made, except that it is a lot of hard work!

[sickboy 13]

It seems you need to involve everyone in your little nervous breakdown IceBreakr..

Regardless of the chance to unleash the wraith of your fans:

You make a mess of your releases and addons and then blame others.

You're a great artist, but you seem to be incompetent on a technical level, but again blame others.

You make bad preparations, and then blame others. Perhaps take some responsibility for your own mess.

If you would have your stuff in order in the first place, then it wouldn't be such a mess.

No v2 signatures, broken compatibility with existing missions, and existing units, and weeks until there seems to be a fix.

I even reported the lack of v2 bisigns to you. But then I/SU get blamed??

I am distributing 1000's of GB's a month for free, investing months and months of development and support for free,

bringing your Mods to the people in an easy way, making your mods penetrate the market deeper than they would before, especially in Multiplayer.

Yes, blame me!

For the record there's no gain for me, if anything only loss of time and money! I do not even play the game atm.

You have adjusted versions of publically released PBO's? If I was aware of it, perhaps I could take it into account.

But regardless, it is bad practice. You're not the only one using that addon, there are many islands using that addon.

So when your island is loaded, it affects other people's islands? That's unacceptable and unprofessional, and there are many ways to deal with that properly instead.

Nevermind it seems to be a newer version of brg_africa, signed by berghof key, but not released seperately.

Actually scratch that too, because:

A) Your brg_africa.pbo.brg.bisign does not correspond to official brg.bikey available with the official brg_africa release.

B) You do not supply a brg.bikey in your 1.337 release at all, not the original, not an updated!

Ticketed @ https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30615

The only reason why 3rd party addons are in their own modfolder on SU is because of deduplication.

There's no need to download/install/update the same PBO for each island that uses it, duplicating the same pbo across multiple mod folders, sometimes newer, sometimes older versions, is what makes the messes in MultiPlayer etc to begin with.

To be clear, I do not edit anyone's content!!

Nobody owns bikeys and bisigns, other than perhaps BIS. Anyone may create and distribute them. Don't believe me? PM Dwarden!

V2 signatures are out since many many months now, and many servers require v2 signatures to solve Cheating etc in MP.

Your addons don't work there.

Believe me that resigning addons is a common practice, practiced by many many (mostly private) server admins.

As a service, I provide a single source of V2 bisigns (for the addons that do not have v2 sigs, or no sigs at all!),

which should IMO be considered as better than server admins adding their own signatures to your addons - at least for the ability to cross join servers.

Leaving either broken bisigns or v1 bisigns causes usually technical difficulties - don't blame me for ARMA's shortcomings, I have to deal/workaround them just like anyone else.

http://sickboy-six.blogspot.com/2011/11/v2-signatures-bisign-and-bikey-what-is.html

As to your problems on your server with different bikeys; Adding a BIKey to your server isn't rocket science is it?

Perhaps do some better preparations for your gaming nights, testing before (and I would suggest setting up AddonSync or SU properly, but I digress).

Then you complain about Six Updater removing your 'development versions'.

Right, you used a distribution tool that updates local mod versions to the online version available online on the network,

and then you wonder what happened to your existing files. Perhaps think before you act? Read and do some research perhaps?

You did hear about backups and revision control tools like SVN/Git/Hg right?

Anyway, perhaps I can make it more clear in SU that updating with SU will remove unneeded files and update existing files to the latest version on the network. Frankly I think it's obvious, but regardless.

Lastly if you have feedback, complaints, requests etc re Six Updater, there are clear directions for SU Support on the Homepage, and there's an Issue Tracker.

I am available all days of the week, at all times except sleeping times. I usually answer very fast, and resolve fast too.

There's even a Skype chat for realtime support. Instead of dramatizing in your thread, you could've just reported.

In Short - nobody is perfect, but take some responsibility instead of blaming others and dragging them through the dirt; public drama.

---------- Post added at 11:01 ---------- Previous post was at 10:12 ----------

In the meantime i've updated @brg_africa to the latest version included with Lingor, since it appears to be signed by Berghof.

I have also restored original key+bisigns, living next to the SU v2 signs. The SU v2 signs can be removed when you finally add v2 signs.

See, im not quite the devil you take me for.

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sickboy

[Banshee 9]

First of all: We love your maps and play them a lot. We value your effort in providing awsome game content.

But: Icebreakr your attitude here is really not helping anyone.

1. Your denial of creating own signature files to fix the issue of you not providing V2 signatures (even if requested in http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?100135-Jungle-Wars-Island-of-Lingor&p=2131018#post2131018) will stop people using your mod.

2. Your adapted version of brg_africa (you have the permission to do so?) will most likley break other mods that uses brg_africa as well. How about Isla Duala or Fallujah? Or the other maps using it? Why not push the changed mod to the network where it belongs? Or rename it and put it in as a diffrent mod with a diffrent name to avoid conflicts with other mods?

3. Adding mods directly into your release wich are used by other addons is a bad practice as well. Why do I need 2-3 versions of brg_africa on my SSD? Not to talk about bandwith, diskspace on the mirrors and so on.

4. Blaming SU that the programm did what it was designed to do (download the version that is on the network to your folder or 1-way sync your local folder with the network) shows that you didn't understand what you were doing there. Maybe create a local folder called @Lingor_testing? You could even distribute that for alpa/beta testing trough a custom repository (Need help with setting up? Ask me, I'm glad to help out with that).

5. Why didn't you just put up the six_lingor key on the server? It's easy as cake and every serveradmin should know how to do so.

So I would like to ask you the following:

1. Create V2 signatures or allow us to do so. Otherwise we (and a lot of other communities) won't be able to use your islands anymore.

2. If your version of brg_africa is the latest one, get it on the SU network/Armaholic rather than just including it into your lingor mod. Doing so will affect other addons as well.

3. Stop including other mods directly into your mods. People still have low bandwith and/or diskspace. In addition to that it's just unneccessary to do so. (mbg_buildings2 = 117 MB, brg_africa = 39 MB, ibr_plants = 115 MB, csj_snake = 4.8 MB. That's allmost 300 MB overhead)

Edited April 23, 2012 by Banshee

[icebreakr 3100]

Ok, lets go step by step here.

I can't seem to find you up on skype (shows that you're always offline). I even made a post about V2 sigs and the message is "still in delivery". Of course I would make sigs if I knew that they weren't V2. I downloaded latest BI Tools and in good faith run the signing procedure through them before the release of v1.337. Well it didn't work - so I'll make V2 keys for v1.338, hopefully this week. I used the tips you sent me on Dev-Heaven and I thank you for that.

I take full responsibility when I make a mess. I expect the same from others. Techical knowledge is something I "gather" every day when I'm dealing with BIS product. And I thank again to all who help me(!). My free-time that I can use for island making is severely limited in past months, as you've probably already noticed. And badmouthing me in public is seriously not speeding up the process, vice versa is is killing my will to work. Nervous brakedown? Incompetent on a technical level? I won't even respond, I'll let mods deal with that.

Problem with event is that some of the other team guys used SixUpdater, others used Armaholic, etc. at the end we noticed couple of things were different, especially keys. I know, missing server key with v.1337 is my fail, and I'll fix it with new update. Along with 50 other bugfixes I accumulated during hard 14 days of work.

About SixUpdater deleting my files. I used it to get your keys to get on the server and noticed that all my current files were moved to @lingor\addonx. I checked they were there and said to myself "oh ok, good job Six - backup of old files before update). But when I looked again (after adding ACRE to the preset) the \addonx ... empty folder. Even recycle bin didn't get my files back. No worries as I will make new pbos from my source, but I work on a project with many people and they prepare some of the pbos.

Don't get me wrong. I never hated you nor your work, Sickboy. I think you do absolutely stunning stuff. I'm just mad when someone is messing with stuff I did. Keys are the thing that ticked me off. People from my team were mad, too. Two teams, same addons... yet we spend hours making sigs/server files work.

Banshee:

1. I didn't deny it anywhere(!), I just didn't know that latest BI Tools don't create v2 sigs by default.

2. I'm in contact with Berghoff and brg_africa exists because he made it for Isla Duala and Lingor in the first place. I'm eternally grateful to him. And yes, I report bugs to him. Like reducing mass of some plants so the tanks and cars don't stop on impact :) only later he released them to public. I'll supply a new key since he has (I believe) V1, too.

3. Oh I know, but people are lazy these days. If I get rid off 300megs I would be more than happy.

What do you recommend I do with brg_africa, ibr_plants, csj_snakes, mbg_buildings2? But I surely won't be running a game with -mod=@ibr_plants;@csj_snakes;@mbg_buildings2;@brg_africa;@lingor;@lingor_units :)

4. I just hoped that the app doesn't delete existing stuff, especially files that are not even included in SU. I'll know next time - yes, my bad - I don't have time to read all the stuff. Or you can wait for next update until Q4 or 2013... RL is hectic enough as it is.

5. We did, but then didn't know that brg_africa is different. Its strange, because I think the file is used since v1.3 on, released many months ago.

I'll make sure I release:

- Lingor Lite v1.338

- Lingor Full v1.338

... asap to "stop this madness".

Still, keep reporting bugs (and SOLUTIONS!) to ice at icebreakr dot info, Dev-Heaven.net, or here.

Island v1.338 is complete, I'm beta testing units myself this time, since I got let down by testers in Lite v1.337....

Edited April 23, 2012 by IceBreakr

[gossamersolid 155]

What do you recommend I do with brg_africa, ibr_plants, csj_snakes, mbg_buildings2? But I surely won't be running a game with -mod=@ibr_plants;@csj_snakes;@mbg_buildings2;@brg_africa;@lingor;@lingor_units :)

You can still throw all of those mods into an @lingor mod folder for yourself.

[grub 10]

You can still throw all of those mods into an @lingor mod folder for yourself.

I think he was asking is there a way to "include" all the 3rd party mods in the Lingor mod

[sickboy 13]

Thank you for your response and taking responsibility, apologies if my own response seemed somewhat offensive in response,

it isn't easy at times to deal with these things :)

Like you I do these things for fun with the best of intentions, and fun disappears indeed rather quickly in these cases.

Though im not sure what the Moderators have to do with it; I am simply responding to you, and express my opinion, IMO within the forum rules.

Please note that regardless of SU, you would still have experienced issues with keys/signs as pointed out in my post, the 1.337 lingor package lacks a brg.bikey, and the official brg.bikey does not work with your modified brg_africa.pbo (gives mentioned error). https://dev-heaven.net/issues/30615

Where to find the proper corresponding brg.bikey?

Glad to hear there will be v2 signs finally in the next release!

Re the "addonsX" folder that contained your old files - this is rather strange, there is currently nothing in SU that backs up existing mod files, nor moves to a "addonsX" folder. I would argue these are responsibility of the user, but perhaps having an option to backup existing files wouldn't hurt.

As to contacting me - I am sorry but (for years) I do not provide support through private contact, and have it blocked most of the time :)

Reasons incl being able to get some work done, issue trackers are visited by other people and have existing tickets with possible resolution and I usually work in teams - support is shared, no need to contact me personally :)

Instead, all projects I am involved in have an Issue Tracker, and most if not all of them have a Support thread powered by Disqus, available on the homepages of the projects.

As last resort, there are the BIF threads for the projects as well, but I really prefer the Issue Tracker and disqus system myself.

---------- Post added at 13:59 ---------- Previous post was at 13:40 ----------

1. I didn't deny it anywhere(!), I just didn't know that latest BI Tools don't create v2 sigs by default.

The latest tools actually do create V2 bisigns (there's no choice, so by default v2, which are backwards compatible to v1).

However, the latest tools are v2.5.1, I reckon you are using v2.5, perhaps update failed?

You can recognize the version of bisigns by their filesize, v1 signs are usually around 250 bytes, v2 signs are usually around 550 bytes.

Oh I know, but people are lazy these days. If I get rid off 300megs I would be more than happy.What do you recommend I do with brg_africa, ibr_plants, csj_snakes, mbg_buildings2? But I surely won't be running a game with -mod=@ibr_plants;@csj_snakes;@mbg_buildings2;@brg_a frica;@lingor;@lingor_units

Oh, why not? Isn't that what launchers, installers, SU, and for old school - shortcuts / batch files are for? :)

Beats having gigs of duplicated addons, especially considering today SSD's, possible version issues and what not.

Of course there will be some users who'd bitch about it, but when does that not happen :P

Edited April 23, 2012 by Sickboy

[icebreakr 3100]

You're right Sickboy. If I make a "big pack", I'll put files to corresponding folders. Players can then move them as they like. Ibr_plants will have a lingor1338 V2 signature, too.

[sickboy 13]

Thanks, though I would prefer not to become the reason and focus of anger because of the suggestion to split it up :P Perhaps consider it a while longer?

It's no problem for me if I have to split it up for SU, where managing large sets of modfolders/dependencies is common practice and easy to deal with.

[Desiderius 0]

You can still throw all of those mods into an @lingor mod folder for yourself.

I think then with every Run of SixUpdater the manuall copied mods are deleted or ?

And when i make an @lingor_with_addons folder myself then more disk space is used because i have the sixupdater version and my version with all addons.

Personally i like it also more to have all neccessary addons in the main folder of the island. But i understand the mention to save disk space and bandwith.

Greetings