Small plane slams into milan skyscraper

[Mister Frag 0]

The Lycoming engines in small single-engine planes like Cessnas and Pipers use AVGAS, not jet fuel.

The two are not interchangeable, and you will wind up contaminating the entire fuel system if you confuse the two, and result in a catastrophic engine failiure.

And small planes like that do not use hydraulics to actuate the control surfaces, nor do they generally use electric motors. Some high-performance singles such as Beechcraft and Mooney airplanes use them for flaps or rudder and elevator trim, but to maintain control of the airplane, you don't need an engine or hydraulics or the electrical system.

[barret 0]

Dont planes have auto glide? or is that helis?

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 18 2002,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Lycoming engines in small single-engine planes like Cessnas and Pipers use AVGAS, not jet fuel.

The two are not interchangeable, and you will wind up contaminating the entire fuel system if you confuse the two, and result in a catastrophic engine failiure.

And small planes like that do not use hydraulics to actuate the control surfaces, nor do they generally use electric motors. Some high-performance singles such as Beechcraft and Mooney airplanes use them for flaps or rudder and elevator trim, but to maintain control of the airplane, you don't need an engine or hydraulics or the electrical system.<span id='postcolor'>

Ok, go hereand then go here and look up the engine for the air craft in the first link on the page on the second link, and it tells you some type of jet fuel

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 18 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 18 2002,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A post on a different forum from a guy called "snagrat":

"Just seen it on Newsround and they said that the pilot did radio in a SOS with engine failure!

So maybe it was an accident! Lets hope so!"

He is from the UK.<span id='postcolor'>

Firstly, Sos, engine problems don't mean u go and run into the TALLEST building in Milan.  Secondly, before Sept 11, there was a 17 yearold  in florida who rammed his plane into a building (and no one talked about it).  But for the milan one, that guy should have been able to avoid the  building, airplanes still have hydralik power even when the engine shuts off (its called batteries).<span id='postcolor'>

The incident in Tampa, Florida you are talking about happened in January of 2002, so it took place well after the WTC attack on 9/11/01.

And if you think nobody in the US talked about it, you must have been living under a rock. Oh, and the kid was just 15 yeards old, not 17.<span id='postcolor'>

oh, you should have read the post that was a little before your post.

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 18 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,06:40)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 18 2002,18:38)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">A post on a different forum from a guy called "snagrat":

"Just seen it on Newsround and they said that the pilot did radio in a SOS with engine failure!

So maybe it was an accident! Lets hope so!"

He is from the UK.<span id='postcolor'>

Firstly, Sos, engine problems don't mean u go and run into the TALLEST building in Milan.  Secondly, before Sept 11, there was a 17 yearold  in florida who rammed his plane into a building (and no one talked about it).  But for the milan one, that guy should have been able to avoid the  building, airplanes still have hydralik power even when the engine shuts off (its called batteries).<span id='postcolor'>

The incident in Tampa, Florida you are talking about happened in January of 2002, so it took place well after the WTC attack on 9/11/01.

And if you think nobody in the US talked about it, you must have been living under a rock. Oh, and the kid was just 15 yeards old, not 17.<span id='postcolor'>

And I just finished a seach on how many things in the forum had any thing to do with the plane crash in florida, but nothing came up.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,06:53)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">Dont planes have auto glide? or is that helis?<span id='postcolor'>

Helicopters are capable of auto-rotation, which should allow a helicopter to feather in the case of engine failure. You basically adjust the collective pitch to allow the blades to build up speed, and you convert the kinetic energy to lift by increasing the pitch again as you approach the ground. This doesn't happen automatically, it is controlled by the pilot, and the timing is obviously crucial, and there are no second changes to get it right.

Fixed-wing aircraft obviously can't do that, but they can glide without power. Small, light planes like the one involved in the crash in Milan can do this pretty well, they even have a better glide ration than some early gliders. But again, the pilot has to maintain the proper attitude and airspeed, without someone at the controls, the plane would likely crash.

A Piper actually has a slight advantage here, the dihedral of the low wings provides better stability than the level high wing of a Cessna. A Piper will usually maintain level flight, whereas a Cessna will roll to the side after a few seconds of letting go of the control yoke.

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 18 2002,23:52)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">The Lycoming engines in small single-engine planes like Cessnas and Pipers use AVGAS, not jet fuel.

The two are not interchangeable, and you will wind up contaminating the entire fuel system if you confuse the two, and result in a catastrophic engine failiure.

And small planes like that do not use hydraulics to actuate the control surfaces, nor do they generally use electric motors. Some high-performance singles such as Beechcraft and Mooney airplanes use them for flaps or rudder and elevator trim, but to maintain control of the airplane, you don't need an engine or hydraulics or the electrical system.<span id='postcolor'>

then what do they use for controling the flaps, and rudders? and dont say strings, cause thats for sail planes.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,06:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

oh, you should have read the post that was a little before your post.<span id='postcolor'>

From the time stamps on the messages, I surmise that a bunch of us where hacking out responses at the same time.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:03)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

then what do they use for controling the flaps, and rudders? and dont say strings, cause thats for sail planes.<span id='postcolor'>

Aircraft-grade wire rope -- same as in gliders.

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:05)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,06:59)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

oh, you should have read the post that was a little before your post.<span id='postcolor'>

From the time stamps on the messages, I surmise that a bunch of us where hacking out responses at the same time. <span id='postcolor'>

I'm not angry, just sayin to type a little damn faster! I type at 73 wpm 9according to mavis becaon) and I'm only 13 (=

[Mister Frag 0]

Actually, besides wire rope, rigid linkages are also used, where this is feasible. The flaps on a Piper Cherokee, for instance, are set using a handle similar to a manual parking brake, and the linkage is a rigid steel piece.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

I'm not angry, just sayin to type a little damn faster! I type at 73 wpm 9according to mavis becaon) and I'm only 13 (=<span id='postcolor'>

I hope I didn't appear to be angry, 'cause I wasn't. Cheers!

Trivia Bit of the Day: More than a decade ago, I actually worked on Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing when I was a software engineer for The Software Toolworks.

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:12)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">6--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,076)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

I'm not angry, just sayin to type a little damn faster! I type at 73 wpm 9according to mavis becaon) and I'm only 13 (=<span id='postcolor'>

I hope I didn't appear to be angry, 'cause I wasn't. Cheers!

Trivia Bit of the Day: More than a decade ago, I actually worked on Mavis Beacon Teaches Typing when I was a software engineer for The Software Toolworks.<span id='postcolor'>

atleast u know I didn't haxor it

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:06)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">3--></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,073)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

then what do they use for controling the flaps, and rudders? and dont say strings, cause thats for sail planes.<span id='postcolor'>

Aircraft-grade wire rope -- same as in gliders.<span id='postcolor'>

cessnad us hydraliks though

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

cessnad us hydraliks though<span id='postcolor'>

Which model? None of their single-engine models that I am aware of. The Cessna Caravan maybe, but not the 150/170/210 series....

[barret 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

cessnad us hydraliks though<span id='postcolor'>

Which model? None of their single-engine models that I am aware of. The Cessna Caravan maybe, but not the 150/170/210 series....<span id='postcolor'>

The Citationz do...........So do the Sky lanes

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

cessnad us hydraliks though<span id='postcolor'>

Which model? None of their single-engine models that I am aware of. The Cessna Caravan maybe, but not the 150/170/210 series....<span id='postcolor'>

The Citationz do...........So do the Sky lanes<span id='postcolor'>

The Citations are twin-engine jet aircraft, I was talking about single-engine piston-driven aircraft.

The Skylane has hydraulic brakes (which are common), but I don't think the control surfaces use hydraulics. I'm not insisting they are not hydraulic, but I would be surprised.

[Ex-RoNiN 0]

In any case, according to BBC the pilot was radioing about landing gear problems.

[Mister Frag 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 19 2002,07:36)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">In any case, according to BBC the pilot was radioing about landing gear problems.<span id='postcolor'>

CNN now says that the plane was a Rockwell Commander 112 TC, and not a Piper as reported earlier.

It's quite typical for the media to not get their facts straight, especially during their initial reporting. It always makes me cringe when the news reports that a Piper Warrior has gone down, and they show a picture of a Cessna 172 or something like that. Grrrr...

[Wobble 0]

I type at 73 wpm 9according to mavis becaon

lol with a 43% error level I bet

i th=nk i cna type that fast to-o if i really try very veyr hard.

[Pukko 0]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:31)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:19)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Mister Frag @ April 19 2002,00:17)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"></span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (barret @ April 19 2002,07:15)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE"><Snip>

cessnad us hydraliks though<span id='postcolor'>

Which model? None of their single-engine models that I am aware of. The Cessna Caravan maybe, but not the 150/170/210 series....<span id='postcolor'>

The Citationz do...........So do the Sky lanes<span id='postcolor'>

The Citations are twin-engine jet aircraft, I was talking about single-engine piston-driven aircraft.

The Skylane has hydraulic brakes (which are common), but I don't think the control surfaces use hydraulics. I'm not insisting they are not hydraulic, but I would be surprised.<span id='postcolor'>

Since I have been working alot with small Cessnas I could add this info if you are interested (it was some years ago though):

Standard models of 152, 172, 182 all use fixed landingears.

All cessnas from 152-210 (I think even 340 (may use some rods)) use cable operated ailerons/elevator/rudder and of course 'hydraulic brakes'. I think they all use electrical flaps.

There is a 172 and 182 RG version with hydraulically retractable landing gears. All 210's have hydraulic L/G.

Really simple aicrafts those

[ralphwiggum 6]

</span><table border="0" align="center" width="95%" cellpadding="3" cellspacing="1"><tr><td>Quote (Ex-RoNiN @ April 18 2002,23:45)</td></tr><tr><td id="QUOTE">I don't know about people in New York, but us here in Europe prefer to see the sun and the sky rather than some stupid building.<span id='postcolor'>

well, here in LA, we can accomodate both!

[Sheriff 0]

The sky? You mean that sky full of pollution from automotive and industrials. And the Sun that rains ultraviolet light down?.

[Espectro 0]

lol

[FallenPaladin 0]

What`s wrong with seeing the sky and the sun?