machine gun and red-dot sight

[Honeycutt 10]

Can anybody tell what is the point of having a red-dot sight on a machine gun (saw/m249/m240 etc)? Due to the power and recoil of such a weapon isn't a red dot useless??

Thought MG are used for broad sweeping lines of fire and suppressive fire? RDS is a little to precise for this purpose. If I am talking BS and militaries actually use sights on MG how are you supposed to fire accurately with it? Bullets appear to hit anywhere but where the sight aims at.

Saw the same thing in COD4. A red dot sight on a M60 what a joke.

[Jelliz 10]

works good when your prone, the MK 48 and the Pecheneg is quite a "marksman-machinegun" when you lie down and fire. Machineguns wont be very accurate when you are crouched or standing up.

Dont know for sure, but the reason for using red dots or magnifying scopes on machineguns might be because it will be easier to concentrate the fire over long distances, which again is useful in desert combat where cover is sparse.

[That guy 10]

depends if you are talking real world or in game

ingame, because you can. better FOV i guess. since the benefits of a holo sight cant be modeled in game there really is no point

real world, it makes target acquisition faster and more comfortable, especially prone in full gear. just get that red dot on target and fire, dont need to mess around with lining up the front and rear sights. "most" MGs are suppose to be fired in 5 to 9 rounds bursts to improve accuracy and conserve ammo and minimize barrel temperature.

[Highway_Star 10]

works good when your prone, the MK 48 and the Pecheneg is quite a "marksman-machinegun" when you lie down and fire. Machineguns wont be very accurate when you are crouched or standing up.

Dont know for sure, but the reason for using red dots or magnifying scopes on machineguns might be because it will be easier to concentrate the fire over long distances, which again is useful in desert combat where cover is sparse.

Dude is right. I use the M240 with the m145 scope for picking off targets at range. A 100 round belt = 100 dead bodies :D.

[Honeycutt 10]

TBH i thought these SAW weapons are for ripping whole areas up or attacking large targets/close multiple targets but NOT at range especially at full auto/burst. Figured .50 BMG would be used at range not SAW. So to summerise the SAW is only accurate being prone. Firing from higher elevation would benefit as well.

Seriously I can't imagine using a SAW at long range though.

[That guy 10]

a m249saw can be effective to 800m. thats one of the big reasons for having such weapons, longer reach than the rifles. for suppressing and destroying the enemy

the way this game models scopes makes them unrealistically effective. scopes are a pain in the ass in reality

[Wolfstriked 11]

depends if you are talking real world or in game

ingame, because you can. better FOV i guess. since the benefits of a holo sight cant be modeled in game there really is no point

real world, it makes target acquisition faster and more comfortable, especially prone in full gear. just get that red dot on target and fire, dont need to mess around with lining up the front and rear sights. "most" MGs are suppose to be fired in 5 to 9 rounds bursts to improve accuracy and conserve ammo and minimize barrel temperature.

I think you said it perfect.Iron sights require skill to line up the two posts on target while a dot sight is just point and click.In A2 the two posts only move when you move the weapon and once centered over target the posts line up for you.

[max power 20]

I think red dot sights allow faster target acquisition and allow easy shooting with both eyes open. This allows for better depth perception and field of view. Under what circumstances would one not want such a thing if it was available?

Edited June 1, 2010 by Max Power

[Honeycutt 10]

Thanks for the pros and cons.

red-dot = depth perception good point but I still feel it gives you tunnel vision. But thats the way I see it in ARMA2/COD4. Certainly it helps in CQB situations. In CQB with an M4 for example i'd prefer the hologram sight.

In real life?=don't know

side note: is the FN SCAR in OA??

[ryguy 10]

In real life?=don't know

We just answered this... yes MG's are for suppressive fire and don't need to be all that accurate... but a red dot sight will outdo the ironsights by far on any weapon because you have less tunnel vision and don't need to line up the sights.

In Iraq and Afghanistan the US uses M249s and M60 paras which have ACOGs on them or other magnification scopes.

[Inkompetent 0]

TBH i thought these SAW weapons are for ripping whole areas up or attacking large targets/close multiple targets but NOT at range especially at full auto/burst. Figured .50 BMG would be used at range not SAW. So to summerise the SAW is only accurate being prone. Firing from higher elevation would benefit as well.

Seriously I can't imagine using a SAW at long range though.

The SAW isn't designed to kill (okay, all weapons are made to kill, but the reason you see one SAW per 4 soldiers in USA isn't for its killing power). It is designed to suppress. And that job it can easily do at 500m and beyond, delivering accurate bursts and having a large ammunition capacity. This of course assumes engaging targets that actually fight back properly instead of rag-tags with a lot of willpower and little skill.

It allows one weapon to put down a high volume of fire for a long duration between reloads, yet being light and mobile enough for one man to carry and move around reasonably fast with.

Actually I'm not sure about the expected kill/ammo ratio on the SAW, but at least in the Swedish Army a rifleman with his AK5 (a FN FNC) is expected to need 100 rounds to hit a prone target in cover at 200m shooting back at him. I don't expect the SAW to fare better. Thus you need to close on the enemy, and the only way to do that is to make sure he can't shoot at you while moving - thus the mobile suppressive weapon SAW.

And as others say: You don't shoot continuous fires with machine guns. 5-10 round bursts depending on what you want to achieve, and just switching from target to target to suppress a line of enemies. For that purpose red-dot is superior to iron sights for the fast target aquisition. Although in practical terms of quick and large range-adjustments on the optics I'm actually not sure if red-dot would be prefered over irons.

Yes, a .50 BMG round is superior for killing power, bullet trajectory, accuracy, cover/armour penetration, etc, etc. But who are you going to make carrying around a 58kg machine gun (gun+tripod) and its brutally heavy ammunition? War is logistics. The one with best logistics wins. It doesn't matter what weapons you have if you can't use them.

Edited June 2, 2010 by Inkompetent

[galzohar 28]

In-game MGs are just as accurate from standing/crouch as they are from prone (sway is only slightly higher and is barely noticeable, even after the huge increase ACE gives it). It's just that the recoil is much harder to manage, so only the first shot in a burst actually has a good chance to hit, while in prone the recoil is much much lower so that you might hit with the rest of the burst as well. But if you use the MG as a sniper rifle, it's about as good standing as it is prone.

In real life, of course, it would be near-impossible to steadily aim a machinegun of any type, especially an M240 or similar.

[Honeycutt 10]

the Swedish Army a rifleman with his AK5 (a FN FNC) is expected to need 100 rounds to hit a prone target in cover at 200m shooting back at him. I don't expect the SAW to fare better. Thus you need to close on the enemy, and the only way to do that is to make sure he can't shoot at you while moving - thus the mobile suppressive weapon SAW.

I probably just suck with MG - need more practice. I know about its use for suppresive fire - just in ARMA2 SP you are given commands to attack individual targets with SAW. Is the the AI actually asking for suppression or just general attack?

[maturin 12]

At least the first round will land on-target. Before the Marines used .50 snipers, one of those famous guys put a scope on an M2 machine gun and fired one round at a time.

[max power 20]

At least the first round will land on-target. Before the Marines used .50 snipers, one of those famous guys put a scope on an M2 machine gun and fired one round at a time.

Gunnery Sargent Carlos Hathcock.

[Flash Thunder 10]

Dude is right. I use the M240 with the m145 scope for picking off targets at range. A 100 round belt = 100 dead bodies :D.

really for me it would be only 20 bodies

AI will soak up about 5 shots before dying. :rolleyes:

[galzohar 28]

AI cannot order or be ordered to suppress. When they do "suppress", it's more "shooting at your last known position / currently estimated position" rather than actually suppressing, though sometimes it'll effectively act as suppression for obvious reasons.

[maturin 12]

AI cannot order or be ordered to suppress. When they do "suppress", it's more "shooting at your last known position / currently estimated position" rather than actually suppressing, though sometimes it'll effectively act as suppression for obvious reasons.

The suppress command does work sometimes. It's just that they need a target or calculated target position that also isn't in their line of sight. That done, they will spray any obstacle, even if it is completely bulletproof.

[Big Dawg KS 5]

Saw the same thing in COD4. A red dot sight on a M60 what a joke.

Well if that's where you're getting your facts from then no wonder...

[maturin 12]

It's a hell of a lot better than a red dot on an RPD. Were lasers even invented back when they used that gun?