Make Arma2 more realistic ...

[misch 10]

Hey there: After playing countless hours in mungle-mode (playing MultiUser as SingleUser = Mungle), I found a few things that absolutely need to be improved in order to make arma2 more realistic.

1) Make AI mount vehicle under fire : You need to get away fast. You order your people to mount the vehicle, yet they run around, lay down and act as if they would have all the time in the world. In the real world, people would just try to mount fast and get away.

2) Make AI drivers go into panic mode. Your LAV is being attacked by the enemy . You order your driver to get the hell out, while you see the damage bars click down. Instead of getting away anyway possible, the driver calmly maneuvers the LAV, carefully avoiding trees, cars, fences or other obstacles, backward, forward, backward, forward ...

3) Make AI gunners within your own vehicle (tank, chopper) open up automatically if they discover threads. It happened to me more than once, you (as commander) are observing the back while an enemy tank becomes visible in the front. Yet the AI gunner is frozen and will not engage unless ordered to do so. Additionally: The AI gunners insists of moving the turret to some crazy direction in order to observe an enemy truck while in the front a platoon of enemy tanks is approaching.

4) Add AI artillery/choppers/aircraft to 'warfare' and 'Diplomacy' even if playing single.

5) Have corpsmen treat your own platoon first. I have a wounded platoon-member, yet I can't get the corpsman to heal him, because there are some other wounded people 500 yards away.

6) Have own sides vehicle avoid own minefields. If I were to lay down a road block, I would most certainly inform my side about it. But even my very own platoon is driving right into the minefield 5 minutes after I put the mines down.

7) Make AI crew go inside when 'danger' mode is ordered. At least within the LAV APC, crew will stick their heads out until the very moment bullets start flying.

8) Make AI crew report if they are stuck. The other day, I was waiting for my AI-controlled LAV to pick me up. After like 10 minutes of waiting, I went all the way back to the location only to find the LAV flipped. Crew didn't seem to find that worthy of a report.

9) Make crew-exchange workable. If you are on the backseat in your LAV and switch to the gunner, the original gunner is now on the backseat. Once you return to the backseat, the gunner will not return to his previous post.

10) Make crew observe "engine out" and add an 'kill engine action'. It is sometimes very useful, to just listen. However, crew will always restart engine

I am sure I have overlooked something. If any of the above suggestions are already addressed, please let me know. I can't use any additional modules (Benny, etc) as this will break the Loading/Saving, which is very important to me.

Hoping for a 1.06 patch :)

mm.

[[frl]myke 14]

1. When under fire, never ever enter a armoured/armed vehicle as passenger.

Those vehicles are always high priority targets so expect AT weapons hitting it very soon. Also, AI sitting in the back means unused firepower. A vehicle can fight only one target at a time (2 if commander has a weapon aswell).

Even when retreating, chances are high to lose a whole squad defenseless by a single AT hit.

2. If driver would start to panic, you're dead. A panicking driver will probably put the vehicle against or on a obstacle and be stuck there. Look point 1. Infantry covers vehicles, vehicles covers infantry.

3. Issue order "fire at will" and this problem should be gone. Additionaly, a gunner has a very limitied FOV so it's very likely that he didn't saw the tanks and still thinks that the truck is actually the target with highes priority around.

4. AFAIK there is Arty and choppers for AI. Use high command to change group type accordingly.

6. Agree. Own placed mines should be avoided. You got a point there.

7. I was always able to see if vehicles are in danger mode or not by looking if they've sticked their heads out. So i can't follow you here.

8. Also agree on that one. AI should report possible vehicle problems which affects mobility or fighting abilities.

[jw custom 56]

1. When under fire, never ever enter a armoured/armed vehicle as passenger.

Those vehicles are always high priority targets so expect AT weapons hitting it very soon. Also, AI sitting in the back means unused firepower. A vehicle can fight only one target at a time (2 if commander has a weapon aswell).

Even when retreating, chances are high to lose a whole squad defenseless by a single AT hit.

Sometimes you need to get the hell out of there, the enemy is moving in on your position and you order the AI into a vehicle but they start walking around the vehicle instead. This is a part of the highly discussed "AI not responding when in combat/danger mode" issue, not sure if it has been fixed in one of the latest beta's but i think i read it somewhere.

[misch 10]

1. When under fire, never ever enter a armoured/armed vehicle as passenger.

Those vehicles are always high priority targets so expect AT weapons hitting it very soon. Also, AI sitting in the back means unused firepower. A vehicle can fight only one target at a time (2 if commander has a weapon aswell).

Even when retreating, chances are high to lose a whole squad defenseless by a single AT hit.

It doesn't necessarily mean we're already under fire. It just means: I need to get away fast. Get the hell into the vehicle - we need to go.

2. If driver would start to panic, you're dead. A panicking driver will probably put the vehicle against or on a obstacle and be stuck there. Look point 1. Infantry covers vehicles, vehicles covers infantry.

In real life - I would of course agree. But in AI mode, I just can't stand AI drivers trying to avoid grandpa's garden fence, aunt Tammy's hatchback or nice little trees while some enemy APC takes potshots at us.

3. Issue order "fire at will" and this problem should be gone. Additionaly, a gunner has a very limitied FOV so it's very likely that he didn't saw the tanks and still thinks that the truck is actually the target with highes priority around.

If the commander turns the turret at a specific direction, it doesn't make sense for the gunner to turn it all the way back to watch a low priority target. This is specifically dangerous, if the turned turret blocks the view of the commanders optical systems. Is there a command to make the gunner turn the turret to direction of tank?

4. AFAIK there is Arty and choppers for AI. Use high command to change group type accordingly.

6. Agree. Own placed mines should be avoided. You got a point there.

I'll check for arty and choppers.

7. I was always able to see if vehicles are in danger mode or not by looking if they've sticked their heads out. So i can't follow you here.

Well - at least for the LAV, that doesn't work. Ordering 'danger' will not make crew go inside.

8. Also agree on that one. AI should report possible vehicle problems which affects mobility or fighting abilities.

Leaves the overfriendly corpsman, who sometimes heals other people before the own platoon, the 'engine out' command and the change of places within the crew.

Thanks for your answer.

mm.

[Evil_Echo 11]

The main problem with mines and incoming arty is that it does not have a side assigned to it - hence the AI cannot react to it as a threat. BI should fix this, but it could be possible for a mod to go part-way in this area as well.

[tj72 0]

I recently tested the AI "issue" of not moving when enemy is near with the betas and its still there as far as I can tell. AI squads just stop taking movement orders when the enemy is near (bluefor tested only).

Changing this one thing that happened to the AI (was not a problem before 1.05) would be a major improvement to the AI situation in the game. I see dozens of complaints with AI that all come back to this change. Ive seen tickets about it on the tracker but no updates recently as if its an intended "feature". Some people even think its an improvement and more realistic change. I will never understand some people.

Fixing this problem for me would make the game alot more fun to play and would make possible for more AI enhancements. Its really bad when AI is engaged now, they will focus on what they want and only that and virtually nothing breaks them out of it. Its really discouraging and bad direction the AI took since last patch and there is no sign from BIS that it will be changed.

[Richey79 10]

If you want your AI to retreat quickly when under fire, try setting them to 'safe' in the AI stance menu (7). They'll also tend to get in vehicles faster in safe mode if they think there is an enemy presence around. If you set them to 'aware', they have a tendency to switch automatically to 'danger' as soon as there is a local threat.

Counter-intuitive, but on any other setting they'll prioritise staying low and returning fire. Probably a good few of your guys will get mowed down in the process of turning their backs to the enemy and fleeing, but that was your order, after all... .

[dmarkwick 261]

The main problem with mines and incoming arty is that it does not have a side assigned to it - hence the AI cannot react to it as a threat. BI should fix this, but it could be possible for a mod to go part-way in this area as well.

There should really be a "universal" threat class, some property that all AI would try to avoid if present. Arty would then provide large universal threat, as well as fires etc.

But, I don't know that mines should come under that. Mines are an example of a threat that is universal, and universally indiscriminate, and universally invisible. Until there is some way of artificially ringfencing areas of the map as "no-go" areas for specific sides (to simulate previously announced minefields), I can't see a way around it. If you lay a mine that is supposed to be invisible to the enemy, shouldn't it be also invisible to the allies? That is part of the mines' property, its universal threat.

[jw custom 56]

Counter-intuitive, but on any other setting they'll prioritise staying low and returning fire. Probably a good few of your guys will get mowed down in the process of turning their backs to the enemy and fleeing, but that was your order, after all... .

Well if you REALLY need to get the hell out of there there's most likely a good reason for it like your all getting slaughtered!

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Until there is some way of artificially ringfencing areas of the map as "no-go" areas for specific sides (to simulate previously announced minefields), I can't see a way around it.

I would use that for water! :) Currently I'm having some crazy problems in a singleplayer Utes mission I'm just messing with. In order to artificially slow things down, I'm using random halts (via doStop) and forceSpeed while moving. But after doStop and waypoint fetching, my squad goes into wedge formation, even if it reports still being in column. In the route that I have setup, that means that half of the guys with end up in water or get stuck there. If they had managed to stay in column like I want them to, it wouldn't have been a problem.

[Flash Thunder 10]

I was going to make a thread like this.

Mine is how to increase immersion easily and increase realism in Arma 2.

Immersion wise: Add more default ambient sounds, like birds talking, owls at night, sounds of wind etc and near water better sound effects of the water hitting the shore.

Being able to hear the player breathe more after sprinting awhile or under heavy stress (a firefight).

To simulate fear more when in combat in Arma 2, like in Dragon rising you can hear your own heartbeating which I love and you have a very small shake and wobble.

Better sound effects of bullets hiting objects near you and more wizzing sounds, these scare me in this game since there so loud but the quality of them to is somewhat lacking.

AI should yell appropriate things out when in combat besides orders and such, kind of like a dynamic sitrep, Like:

Shit there all over me!

Or

Fuck man I dont think we will make it out of here.

maybe even a soldier crying like in DR, funny but yeah some guys would cry if they knew they would be killed horribly soon. There not all terminator bots. ;)

Incorporating, Unconciousness from ACE 2 and other features like intense G Forces, bleeding out, blood pools and trails, bandages/morphine into Arma 2 vanilla.

Surrendering without need of module, if AI knows its odds of escaping or killing the threat near by are too low then they should surrender.

Thats all I can really think of for now.

Just got out of a sick ass firefight with like 30 AI so Its good timing to post in here. :)

[pravinrocks4u 10]

@misch

I agree you on points 1,3,5,7,8. Another thing I observed is that AI can't open Door Gates on their own.

About getting away under fire..I noticed when enemy AI is under fire by human player and his AI team. the enemy AI doesn't act like player's team AI, I mean if they are under fire, they get away smoothly, they don't get stuck anywhere.

Edited May 26, 2010 by pravinrocks4u

[CarlGustaffa 4]

Add more default ambient sounds, like birds talking, owls at night, sounds of wind etc and near water better sound effects of the water hitting the shore.

Some decent sounds already exist, but they are very hard to "get to", in that they don't have a name defined and show up blank. If they miss the stringtables, at least put in the classname as the name so we have some idea what it is.

I do put out a few sound triggers in missions, but the job is very time consuming, and goes from deep careful placing to complete neglect and apathy in just a few hours of work.

As for new birds (the existing ones are ok enough I think), how about this one? :D

WeQjkQpeJwY

Surrendering without a module? Why? It's among the easy modules to use, no syncing required, and you can pass on parameters to it (since it is module based). If anything, fix it so that a last check is done before an AI opens up on him. Too many times have I seen AI who slaughters AI who have surrendered, as if their "target order" or "detection level" overrides the setcaptive status or something. And I though humans were triggerhappy bastards :D

@pravinrocks4u: AI open gates and door with me. It doesn't "look" like they're "doing anything" except suddenly the gate or door just opens. Good enough for me actually.

And, AI got stuck enough in Arma1 for all future versions of the game, I don't want it back :p

Edited May 26, 2010 by CarlGustaffa

[Wolfrug 0]

5) Have corpsmen treat your own platoon first. I have a wounded platoon-member, yet I can't get the corpsman to heal him, because there are some other wounded people 500 yards away.

Through the action menu, yeah? Annoying as heck - I've also come across the stupid bastards running off to heal ENEMIES >_> (maybe they're just really adamant about the Geneva convention?). Anyway, if you're the squad leader you can also order them to heal people by selecting them and then pointing at the wounded soldier - a prompt in your quick action menu thing will pop up as something like "Heal that soldier", which will order the corpsman directly to assist :)

Agree with a lot of your stuff otherwise. I really think that the simple addition of a "LEG IT" command would improve matters immensely (LEG IT would override the default AI and make it perform its most recent command with absolute prejudice, e.g. mount a vehicle, run to a location etc). But oh well :) I guess AIs are human too?

Regards,

Wolfrug

[Evil_Echo 11]

There should really be a "universal" threat class, some property that all AI would try to avoid if present. Arty would then provide large universal threat, as well as fires etc.

But, I don't know that mines should come under that. Mines are an example of a threat that is universal, and universally indiscriminate, and universally invisible. Until there is some way of artificially ringfencing areas of the map as "no-go" areas for specific sides (to simulate previously announced minefields), I can't see a way around it. If you lay a mine that is supposed to be invisible to the enemy, shouldn't it be also invisible to the allies? That is part of the mines' property, its universal threat.

Agree about the universal threat.

But mines are not always invisible. Minefields are frequently posted, dummy mines deployed, etc. Add the loud boom of one mine going off and most people would get the clue and treat the area as a hazard zone - not to be entered. In fact one major use of minefields by the Germans in WWII was to steer enemy troops into kill zones - so you wanted the location of mines to be known.

I'd model this by adding a location to the map and revealing it to that side when appropriate. Ground troops would avoid known AP minefields and armor known AT mines. Air vehicles would not land there either.

[Flash Thunder 10]

@Carl

Yeah the bird sounds are good, but I think the sound file is too short I hear that same chip every like 3 minutes it gets annoying after awhile and hearing the same sounds in Operation Arrowhead from the videos doesnt show that BIS made any new ambient sounds.

Surrendering should be default by AI in their logic, why do I have to place an external script to do it? I know its easy but why whats a legitament explaination as to make it a scripted module?

[jw custom 56]

Another thing I observed is that AI can't open Door Gates on their own.

But as a bonus enemy AI walks right through them :D

[pravinrocks4u 10]

@CarlGustaffa

Take a look at this video I made after your reply..

-nCF2oBTzbo

Stupid is the only word that came to my mind :rolleyes:

[misch 10]

... but from most replies here I can feel, that there is some room for AI improvement.

Since I am among those, who love to play 'Warfare' (Diplomacy) without any other human players, I'd like to renew my suggestion for arti and/or MRLS support (which is not available in vanilla 'Diplomacy - tried it up and down) and, of course, I would love to see AI choppers (own/enemy) in the sky. Like I said before: Benny Warfare (ACE) is handling Arti/MRLS just great - however it breaks the Load/Save function - and my continued (virtual) survival depends on that function.

As for the mines, my thinking is simple: Nobody would lay down a bunch of mines without telling high-command about it. If high-command knows about it, it should mark those areas in the map so other (AI or human) troops are able to avoid 'em.

One more question for you: Why is the tank loader _always_ sticking his head out? Is he bucking for life insurance money?

Michaela

[Daniel 0]

@CarlGustaffa

Take a look at this video I made after your reply..

Stupid is the only word that came to my mind :rolleyes:

Why were there multiple gate options?

[Laqueesha 474]

Why is the tank loader _always_ sticking his head out? Is he bucking for life insurance money?

I wondered this too. Needless to say, he never lasts long in combat. Or the tank, for that matter. The enemy AI will keep shooting at the tank with small arms and eventually, it will blow up after running out of health points. It has happened to me while I was crewing an LAV-25.

[bwc153 10]

As been stated, the AI when commanding its own squads often has fewer issues... It is often the fault of the player that causes some AI problems.

Benny Warfare (ACE) is handling Arti/MRLS just great - however it breaks the Load/Save function - and my continued (virtual) survival depends on that function.

Do what i do... Make a LAN server of Benny Warfare, on that then if you die you respawn like in MP. However your PC may overload if you have too much AI fighting at once (happens to me and my '10 second' respawn time turns into about 3 minutes.... I need more RAM :()

[NeMeSiS 11]

Why were there multiple gate options?

Cause there are multiple doors to open and he ordered 2 to open a door somewhere far away. :p

[Flash Thunder 10]

I did this once back in August theres no trickery.

I used a different gate though.

AI sure love to run through objects.

Nice.... Arma 2 AI :rolleyes:

[NeMeSiS 11]

While its true that the AI cannot take opening doors into account in their pathfinding, you could argue that they never need it ingame. Hence the wall of containers on a fucking runway to actually try this.