How realistic is this game to actual soldiers?

[D00mbuggy 10]

I've been playing ArmA II since when it came out. Even though it seems realistic, can people who've served in the military tell me if this game is very authentic? Does the leader really say "engage that" over and over again? Are you supposed to prone when gun fire comes in an open field?

[That guy 10]

it really depends on what aspect of the game you are talking about. if you want to know if it simulates the MILITARY, than no, it does not. you dont have paper work out the ass, you dont have PT, you dont have to get woken up in the middle of the night, you dont have to sit around in a place you hate for months on end bitching about how much you hate it :p, and the biggest thing, living around many other live human beings for that same time, or the emotional connection with your surroundings

now when it comes down to mechanics, yeah the game does a fair job of full spectrum ops. yes you can ID specific traits that are unrealistic and portrayed better in other games, and such, but as a whole unit, it does the job (dont get bogged down in micro details).

people always bitch about how BIS are the worst AI programmers alive and bullshit like that. those idiots do not understand a bit about programming NOR soldiers.

take into consideration it takes a MINIMUM of 4 months of constant training to become a US soldier. 4 months. and it will take many more months of constant training to become an effective fighting force.

so now consider that when some one bitches about the AI. yeah. cut bis some slack

anyway...

for the most part the BIS campaigns are not entirely realistic, but are fairly authentic. they miss alot of details simply because they are not Americans, and are not soldiers, and are making a game for entertainment purposes. thats alright. it gets the point across

now regarding the way the game relays info that pretty realistic. they portray it in "perfect" "3 D format" (distance, direction, description)

in game

1: 12 oc enemy man at 200 meters

1: 2 target that man

2: roger

*bang bang*

2: i got him!

real life

1: contact! hey! HEY! we got one guy over there! *pointing*

2: where?

1: next to the third bush from the right!

*shots*

1,2: JESUS!

you get the idea

considering the limitations of being a computer game set on a small screen, were you push keys instead of boots and triggers, it does an adequate job of portraying "combat"

Edited May 6, 2010 by That guy

[Flash Thunder 10]

2 words

Hiya Dude.

(roflcopter) :D

[walker 0]

Hi D00mbuggy

First up I am not in the military and I have never fired a real gun in my life but I can speak on simulation.

No Simulation is ever perfect. If the Real Virtuality (RV) series of engines on which ArmA II is based was perfect 99% of people on this forum would be dead. In my case about 30 yards after being dropped off by the truck in BIS's original OFP demo.

A simulation approximates reality to a useful degree.

In the case of RV VBS2 the professional military version of the same engine is the de facto simulation engine for NATO that should tell you something. VBS2 is now more or less issued with a soldiers pair of boots. It is used by the the US Army, US marines, US Special Forces, UK Army, Australian Army and NATO in general and several other armies round the world; for everything from Recruiting to Area of Operations Familiarization, to convoy and IED training, sniper training to FO-FAC, in everything from for desk simulation and shooting rooms or vehicle sims; and lots more besides that we will never hear of.

It keeps getting better and that is one of the reasons the Military like it. If it ain't right it gets modded or a patch gets released by BIS that fixes it. The process is fast and dirty but the edges get smoothed off with each new patch and mod. That is Rapid Application Development.

The RV Engine just keeps getting better.

And the military do not stand still, new things happen: new wars, new equipment, new SOPs etc. The RV engine can cope with that. No other engine has the RV engines modability not even the ones used in the military before the VBS family came along.

ArmA II is prettier than VBS2 especially with the upcoming Operation Arrowhead addition. it ain't perfect but it never will be, thank Darwin.

Kind Regards walker

Edited May 6, 2010 by walker

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

As a former officer i say no real world conection at all...

Only thing i would recomend is leadershiptraining.

Maybe some logistics but other then that..Nope..

[BeerHunter 0]

Like all "simulators" it depends on how YOU play it. It ArmA2 offers the user the ability to play it as a simulator but you can also play it as you would CoD.

ie: Go to West Jets 737 simulator in Calgary. Take off , do a low , high speed pass over the city center followed by barrel roll while ignoring all the ATC warnings and instructions and see if you get certification.

If you're willing to take orders/give orders,follow direction,treat the AI as living beings and try to keep them alive well yes , I think ArmA2 can reasonably simulate a battlefield tactical experience.

As far a combat goes , no computer program exists than can simulate that.

[Junker 0]

ArmA2 offers the user the ability to play it as a simulator but you can also play it as you would CoD.

BLASPHEMY : how could you, of all the game you compare play style to COD ?

We should tie you to a steak and burn you :)

[eggbeast 3684]

i was mulling over this the other day - its a good question. i think when we say we want "realism" in a game, what we really mean is "an immersive, authentic experience" as realism would entail a lot of boredom and horror and maybe 20 days of real combat per year... depending on where you were posted...

we don't want post-traumatic stress disorder, or to see our mates get hurt or to see real world nasty situations in a game.

in gaming terms of being able to play in an open environment, without clipping saying "no don't go there, go here" and in terms of weapon ballistics and vehicle and plane types etc, and buddying up with your mates to see who can stay alive the longest with some interesting objectives and randomness and so on it's as good as a real MILITARY SIMULATOR...

so you can have some serious fun with arma 2. at the end of the day, that's all it is though, cos it's a game. and i'm certainly glad about that...

[kireta21 13]

In my opinion ArmA2 is just as realistic as good airsoft match. But with recoil, limited magazines, and quite realistic ranges. Games are about fun part of beign soldier, and ArmA 2 is no exeption. It's just much more detailed and have 1001 features to allow you arange your "match" the way you like. Hell, We played wargames with WGL mod in my army days (though it was far from any trainig purposes, but few features made it "almost" simulation for us - like AI moving in formation, and beign organized in teams or platoons).

Making game ultra-realistic along with ultra-realistic missions is possible especially with all mods and addons avaliable. But the qustion is, would such ultra-realistic game be still fun?

I wouldn't like mission about me doing 24h guard duty in -20 Celcius every 2 days, or 8 hour-long, completely undisturbed patrol in the middle of nowhere. ;)

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Would your RL team in a formation colomn be switching places all the time?

Would your RL driver of a Hummer neglegt or refuse to turn off lights at night patrol?

If you prone in a combatsituation, would your teammates still stand up?

Some of the things we take for granted in rl is not that "Important" to Devs it seems.

It is doable, i dont know how im not a gamedeveloper, but i dont think it would be that

hard to have to option to tell the AI to "Turn Of lights" for example.

Or to have them hit the ground as soon as i do.

Or something like MULTIPLE waypoints.

Lets say you have a Platoon, (highcommand), you need one squad to perform guard

duty, one is to do patrol around a small village and 2 is set to rest..

The patrol would need atleast 4 WP´s with maybe the possibillity of 3-5 tasks at

each.

ArmA2 is a verry nice sim, but its FAR from authentic..

[kireta21 13]

Would your RL team in a formation colomn be switching places all the time? [...]If you prone in a combatsituation, would your teammates still stand up?

Yeah, suprisingly these worked much better in good old OFP. Multiple waypoints would be great improvement. I don't understand vehicle lights part - just give driver "stealth" order, and voila.

@down Dunno. For me AI turns lights off whenever receving "stealth" or "danger" command. And I launched clean ArmA 2 just to make sure it works. And yes, I was suprised there is no "Engine off" order under "action", I'm 98% sure OFP had it.

Edited May 6, 2010 by boota

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Dont work..Not even in night they turn them of, nor the engine..

[Deadfast 43]

Vehicle crews automatically turn off their lights when in Combat or Stealth mode. If they don't there must be a problem on your end.

[jakerod 254]

;1623077']Would your RL team in a formation colomn be switching places all the time?

Would your RL driver of a Hummer neglegt or refuse to turn off lights at night patrol?

If you prone in a combatsituation' date=' would your teammates still stand up?

Some of the things we take for granted in rl is not that "Important" to Devs it seems.

It is doable, i dont know how im not a gamedeveloper, but i dont think it would be that

hard to have to option to tell the AI to "Turn Of lights" for example.

Or to have them hit the ground as soon as i do.

Or something like MULTIPLE waypoints.

Lets say you have a Platoon, (highcommand), you need one squad to perform guard

duty, one is to do patrol around a small village and 2 is set to rest..

The patrol would need atleast 4 WP´s with maybe the possibillity of 3-5 tasks at

each.

ArmA2 is a verry nice sim, but its FAR from authentic..[/quote']

There are ways to order their lights off. You can force them to go prone. In High Command you can give units multiple waypoints. Play the tutorial. If you mean branching waypoints then that just doesn't make sense. Divide your platoon into squads and then give each as many multiple waypoints as you want.

[Smurf 12]

;1623077']....

And playing in MP with people, what feels like?

Of course ou can expect much playing with bots,especially when they are in your squad. That makes them dumber somehow.

[Binkowski 26]

well, it is a game. but it's better than call of duty in terms of realism. but don't get me wrong, i love playing cod / battlefield for the fun factor and friends. but only for a short time.

[eggbeast 3684]

hey at least in arma you can shoot out the headlights on the damn AI vehicle...

[M.Andersson(SWE) 4]

Ok say theres a problem with the lights..That im somhow doing something wrong..

What about the engine..??

And playing MP and squads only works if you KNOW the ppl you are playing with..

Multiple WP´s, hmmm, ive tried the High C numerous times and seem i can only set

one at the time..Ill try some more then..

[Laqueesha 474]

How realistic is this game to actual soldiers?

Military life? Not very well. There is no Chief Petty Officer or First Sergeant screaming in your face for minor discrepancies in your uniform while on board ship or in the field, respectively. Actual combat? Fairly well, compared to other games on the market. Running out into the open during a battle will get you shot full of holes. While in some games you get wounded and hide behind a wall to magically regenerate your health as if you were a cancer victim undergoing radiation treatment.

BLASPHEMY : how could you, of all the game you compare play style to COD ?

We should tie you to a steak and burn you

Just put "this allowdamage false" in your player unit's init line and go Rambo! ;)

Edited May 7, 2010 by Laqueesha

[HyperU2 11]

Being in command of AI who can't think for themselves is the part closest to reality for me.

[ast65 10]

Being in command of AI who can't think for themselves is the part closest to reality for me.

LOL, sad but true,man...

[sickboy 13]

Of course ou can expect much playing with bots,especially when they are in your squad. That makes them dumber somehow.

That's because you're supposed to lead your team and give them the orders they normally get from their AI leader :D

[mcvittees 0]

The realism depends of ARMA depends on what you're trying to do. If you want to know about military tactics and procedures then with the right group you can pretty realistically practise these and gain an understanding of their principles (this only applies to MP games). However, I doubt it would prepare you for being shot at for real!

Edited May 7, 2010 by mcvittees

[Smurf 12]

That's because you're supposed to lead your team and give them the orders they normally get from their AI leader :D

¬¬

Yeah, but I just have the patience to micromanage each step they make.

QFT for mcvittees.

[Second 0]

It's shooter with wide open space and pretty complete editor.

I'm SP guy with strong tactical wargaming background which affects quite lot my tastes.

There's few sides which must be taken part and analysed seperately. MP is one, SP is another, controls and inside game feeling is one, i also count editor in. As i'm SP player purely i'm not interested in MP so i leave that to others. In SP... Well very basic drills, like line-formation during contact, hold fire until i give permission to open fire... or something like that. Very-very basic. And usually micromanaging shoots it to knee as AI doesn't work (automatically). One thing which i really hate in ArmA2 really much is that when you give men stealth behavior they start to move in rushes... Gees, i thought it's about slowly moving and trying to avoid alerting of possible hostiles at same time you try to maximize yours senses and awareness of surroundings. Move slow, halt often, look, listen, smell etc. Yeah... well... i wouldn't have patience for that in-game. :D Oh and communications just don't work, but i'd like to see tha genius who could produce such speech system that i can have even semi-intelligent communications with AI.

I don't like that way ArmA2's shooting is done, well it's okay, but not great. I don't much like it's animations, i don't feel that i'm in there. Something wrong with terrain even if BIS is improving it: still it's golf course with minimal cover. But day and night cycles are nice, and game looks good. Still soldiers do stand out bit too easily all the time i must add. And ofcourse it's just a virtual world, but i've get better immersion with some other games, such as good old vietcong. For some strange reason it sinks into me like knife into grandma. And i like the fact that branches and all that change direction of projectile so shooting thru fir or pine in half way to target isn't much good, but you can get lucky. So it has good sides and bad sides when it comes to looking things from grunt's point of view. Realistic? Well yeah i suppose it is to degree which virtual game can be (not very much). Just as any tactical shooter is, pretty much.

One thing which stands out with mission editing is that it's pretty hard to setup scenarios in such realistic manner that i could look at it and say that i'm satisfied. In here i probably look ArmA2 more with my wargamer eye than soldier's. I never learned to lead company or even infantry platoon. If scale is enough big and i don't start to look at details but instead go with the flow is fairly alright. But that doesn't mean that it would be realistic, it's just that i don't care.

There's problems using crew served weapons in game, all of them. I'm TOW guy so i generally don't use that particular hardware in-game as it's presented pretty much wrong: static weapon system which you can't operate (move around) in realistic fashion.

All in all i just can't say that it's realistic, it has few nuts and bolts set about right. To me doing soldier things is related to so much more than what game can portray. Physical and mental stress (days without sleep or proper rest), scents, outlooks and voices of wilderness, all the rest which happens before ad after missions portrayed in the game. I was okay with these lacks before with OFP which i once considered a proper simulation of soldiering (being young and naive + iron sights was enough back then to make game super tactical), but now i'm much older hopefully wiser and maybe i've noticed that those things are not enough for me personally.