ugly defacing of Polish victims in Belgian press

[vilas 473]

yes, horrible

but peoples reaction is also horrible in some situations:

- look at wonderful reaction of Americans when 9-11 happened, people joined, helped each other, cab-drivers were picking up people for free, people as people acted very great

- look at opposite reaction of cab-drivers from Moscow, when city stooped of attack, they risen prices for transportation 10 times !!! i don't know if you heard about it, TV said it happened like this

the same situation, the same group of people - cab drivers

one helped, other ... acted like looters, in some lands you shoot to looters and noone feels sorry for shot looters :)

Edited April 15, 2010 by vilas

[sudayev 27]

Yes, there are always some degenerates trying to gain profits on others loss and tragedy. Such people conscience is corrupted and they dont feel any compunctions at all. Same thing with 9.11 and all studid and indecent drawings and such. Thats all beyond a decent mind comprehension ...

[celery 8]

Anyone who wants to restrict others' freedom of speech doesn't deserve it themselves. The picture is tasteless but you can't do anything about it unless you want to bring down the whole freedom of press/speech thing that Europe has going on.

"I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it."

-Evelyn Beatrice Hall

[funnyguy1 0]

this who made this picture should be dead and his family should suffer as families of 96 people

Even though you're offended, what you're saying is much worse than what the newspaper did. They just made fun of an accident, you want them dead. Sure you have the right to be angry, but they have the freedom to say what they want - that's how the freedom of speach works. Besides, afaik the newspaper has already apologized. What's outrageous is the lack of one voice concerning the Kaczynski's burial, and it's not something from abroad, nobody is making fun of us this time. I really don't know what's worse, the idea to bury him among the polish kings in the Wawel Cathedral (which sucks imo), or the fact that (despite the fact that the decision is irrevocable) all this fighting, screaming and protesting takes place during the national mourning while the whole world is watching.

[Richey79 10]

Pretty poor show.

Whoever decided to play the 'free speech' card didn't really think before posting, either - this has zero parallel with the cartoons of Mohammed.

Sadly ironic that the cream of Polish society were butchered at Katyn by the Soviets, and now 96 die on their way to a Katyn remembrance ceremony: 'On board were the national bank president, deputy foreign minister, army chaplain, head of the National Security Office, deputy parliament speaker, Olympic Committee head, civil rights commissioner and at least two presidential aides and three lawmakers'.

[vilas 473]

protest organized by some of PO-young party members in Krakow has not equivalent with tens of thousands of Poles visiting Warsaw to light candle and put flowers, waiting 10 hours in queue

some PO activists cannot say for whole Poland

100 PO activist members cannot be stronger than maybe 100 000 - 200 000 of people who went to street, he came to Warsaw to be there , there are not hundreds opponents but tens of thousands people who support President , and place where he will be buried is not important as this is country-officials case (family agreed, it was not family initiative but church officials) and i will not say am i for or against, cause i have no right to say when died president of country should be buried or not,

10 hours waiting in queue people from Poznan, Czestochowa and 100 or more thousands are less important than some PO members ???

Edited April 15, 2010 by vilas

[funnyguy1 0]

vilas i was there in Krakow filming it for the student tv... It wasn't just a couple of PO (PO is a liberal polish party) activists. It was a massive crowd of about 800/900 ppl. Not only young ones. Besides, the protest are taking place allover the country, and it has nothing to do with lighting candles. I know a lot of pro-Kaczynski or pro-PIS guys who are saying that Wawel is "too much". I mean, come on, first of all, he had nothing in common with the city, he did nothing to Cracow besides taking back the money for historic preservation and was here twice. Don't get me wrong, I've never been a right wing/PIS/Kaczynski supporter, but don't think PO is the right alternative either, I just think that beside the fact that he died in a plane crash he did nothing to deserve Wawel. In fact I can't think about anybody who did deserve it recently? Walesa? Whith all this controversy sorrounding him:/?

edit: When it comes to the candles...I would light one too. Why not? It was my president too. But I just don't think he deserved Wawel, that's all.

edit2: One more thing that really pisses ppl off is the fact that cardinal Dziwisz and/or Cracow authorities had more in common with the idea than the ppl or Kaczynski's family. You know, it just heats up the liberal vs extreme right-wing/church thing.

Edited April 15, 2010 by funnyguy1

[sparks50 0]

About the drawing, looks like a metaphor for the polish state crashlanding, which you could say it did when this plane fell out of the sky. (now new elections etc)

It is a big tragedy, but it also has a political side to it.

Edited April 15, 2010 by sparks50

[vilas 473]

Eagle has landed is phrase used when Apollo 11 landed on moon, which was US big success

than this plane crushed, so showing such things with eagle turned upside down half in ground, like plane crushed in the land

and using phrase of "success" can only be read as "hurray, they died, mission accomplished"

thats why by many many people it is very strongly offensive

would it not be offensive seeing Zyklon-B gas barrel in train wagon with "traveling to reach sky" note for example ???

or 9-11 mission accomplished ? or Beslan "at least they not have to learn to exams" ??

"eagle has landed" are words used as "we succeed important mission for us" meaning (Apollo 11)

Edited April 15, 2010 by vilas

[Deadfast 43]

Vilas, you should seriously stop with these murderous thoughts.

I mean there are surely other, less medieval, ways to deal with such things.

[vilas 473]

take this with Apollo 11 context

[dm 9]

take this with Apollo 11 context

maybe try taking it with a pinch of salt? a sense of humour?

Its rants like this that mean we cant have nice things anymore.

Sure its a great shame that it happened, but to go completely off the rails about an innocuous cartoon, well that just suggests mental imbalance...

[mosh 0]

First of all, I'm very sorry to hear about the tragedy...

You keep mentioning 9-11. It's the actual images/videos of the incident that bother me, not some asshole with a pen or pencil drawing pictures or making fun of it.

I understand how you feel when a national tragedy occurs. But getting all worked up over a cartoon, no matter what it says or implies, is just ridiculous. All that bottled up rage can't be good for you.

I respect the rights of anyone in the world to say whatever the hell they want. I do not wish to restrict any types of free speech. I don't give a shit what someone says or draws, but I do give a shit that they have the right to do it.

[Tonci87 163]

@Mosh

Vilas I think you missunderstood the intention of the Picture and you are definately overreacting. You really sound like one of those fanatics

[vilas 473]

freedom cannot be unlimited

just like we have no "freedom to kill, freedom to rape, freedom to steal" the same we should not have "freedom to lie or prescribe something very defacing" , example:

imagine that someone writes book about "Jews as source of cancer" and prooves with statics that number of people suffering from cancer are because in country XYZ number of Jewish nation people immigrated there in 1950, 1970

can this be called freedom of speech and respected ?? i think it should be banned

can for example be book/lecture that for example the French gas murdered Jews in camps during WW2 ?? "kłamstwo Oświęcimskiem" (Auschwitz Lie) is in codex of some countries as far as i know

no , can't

there must be restriction in freedom if they unright harm other important things

if there is too big "freedom" than as effect problems appear and some cyco start to decide about some % of voters opinions twisting upside down facts

in some countries there is for example limitation on freedom of speech when it comes to WW2 crimes, i don't get why this is not in all countries

i don't get such freedom in which person can hurt many many people like this case in the name of freedom

if something like this appeared, it must have appeared in sick brain of sick person

normal human being would not invent such idea , normal man would say nothing , cause accident is accident , sick people laugh or jack-off seeing dead bodies, but they are mentally ill, and no redactor-boss should allow publication of something like this

[myshaak 0]

Vilas, you are indeed overreacting. The person who made the picture has cleary a bad sense of humour, or maybe a no sense at all... but what you are saying is a bit over the line, talking about freedom rectrictions. Don't we have enough of them already?

[froggyluv 2130]

Vilas, first off I am very sorry for your country's loss.

The fact is that there will always be a few people who will do, say, mock anything just to get a reaction/money etc... I wouldn't be to concerned about them but what I do monitor is the general reaction to such indignities. I think in a relatively "healthy" society, the vast majority abhors such acts but the real problems occur when these things happen repeatedly with little to no outrage or worse, a large sect welcomes it.

For instance, here in the states there have always been a fringe group of people who try to portray our president as a muslim terrorist because he has an Islamic middle name, even though time and time again he is known to be a christian. The problem now lies in that these groups aren't so fringe anymore and continue to drive a constant barrage of "take down the government", "start the revolution!" -and what were seeing now is an extremely toxic and polorized nation in which our elected leaders are receiving legitimate death threats on a daily basis. All sense of honor and fair play seem to be totally lost as hatred mounts and I do in a large way blame these degenerate "political analyzers" and their version of free speech.

Of course free speech is to be treasured and protected, it's just a shame the general population is so dumbed down as to let others do their thinking for them without any sort of critical thinking or reflection.

It is Idiocracy realised.

[NoRailgunner 0]

Vilas stop it.

Its a caricature not a declaration of war.

Take a break and a breath, do some workouts or try to walk 7km in 55 minutes.

There are more important things to worry about than this caricature.

[cole 0]

noone in civilized world laughed at 9-11 victims, at Moscov train metro victims

Woah, wait what the fuck?

Are you even serious here? Ofcourse (some) people DID laugh at that. There's people that'll just laugh at everything, no matter what happens.

Yes, it is stupid that people laugh at tragedies like this.

Yes, they'd probably deserve a hit in the face, but killing them? Come on.

[W0lle 1042]

Vilas, take a deep breath and indeed stop this crap (or we stop it).

That newspaper article is anything than nice but yes that's called freedom of speech which will not be restricted just because 96 (important) polish people died. No matter if you (and me) like it or not. You should learn to live with this and not taking everything so seriously.

But you are definitely overreacting here, leave the "strong reactions" to the politicians. Call them idiots if you like and move on but please stop making such a drama out of this.

[rainbow 0]

It's pathetic. Some people never grow up - the Belgian press in this case.

[max power 21]

LOLWUT

This thread has schizophrenia. It is surreal. On the one hand, we have Vilas saying terrible things about killing people because he feels they don't have any right to say terrible things. On the other, we have people saying that he should stop saying terrible things because the others had a right to say terrible things because they have freedom of speech.

[cole 0]

LOLWUT

This thread has schizophrenia. It is surreal. On the one hand, we have Vilas saying terrible things about killing people because he feels they don't have any right to say terrible things. On the other, we have people saying that he should stop saying terrible things because the others had a right to say terrible things because they have freedom of speech.

This message confuses me. alot. I don't even..

[InqWiper 0]

Vilas, take a deep breath and indeed stop this crap (or we stop it).

That newspaper article is anything than nice but yes that's called freedom of speech which will not be restricted just because 96 (important) polish people died. No matter if you (and me) like it or not. You should learn to live with this and not taking everything so seriously.

But you are definitely overreacting here, leave the "strong reactions" to the politicians. Call them idiots if you like and move on but please stop making such a drama out of this.

Hypocrisy much?

We will not allow you to complain about people saying stupid things - there is something called freedom of speech. Now shut up or get banned. Classic.

Its funny to hear people talk about fanaticism in places like the middle east when we have "freedom of speech" fanaticism right here. Anyone who thinks they are allowed to, or should be allowed to, say anything they want is a fool. There are limits to freedom of speech. There is no absolute freedom to say anything you like. Its just a bit more generous in the western world than in other parts of the world (for good and for bad). Try walking down the street chanting "sieg heil" and see how that goes for you. It doesnt even mean anything bad really, its just what people associate it with. People who say you should be allowed to say anything you like think very much in black and white and need to open theire eyes. You dont even allow people to criticise freedom of speech. Its a bit like people who are so pro democracy that they think undemocratic parties should be banned, very ironic.

And what he said :):

LOLWUT

This thread has schizophrenia. It is surreal. On the one hand, we have Vilas saying terrible things about killing people because he feels they don't have any right to say terrible things. On the other, we have people saying that he should stop saying terrible things because the others had a right to say terrible things because they have freedom of speech.

[Tonci87 163]

@ Vilas, some of the People that died in the Plane Crash fought so that you have Freedom of Speech in Poland now. Cuse you didn´t have it in the old Soviet Regime. So why do you say that Freedom of Speech should be limited? By saying that you are disrespecting the Things those People stand for