Public PvP gameplay: not quite dead!

[qwertz 10]

I have seen quite a few posts here recently that are complaining about the lack of (public) PvP gameplay in the ArmA 2 community.

Well, we already have a quite a nice group of players on the ArmAcalypse server that play pure PvP with no AI every evening and night (US time), but certainly welcome everyone looking for a good player-versus-player experience to join the server.

We exclusively play Advance and Secure (AAS) - for those who don’t know AAS yet, it’s a quite accessible, yet tactical and sophisticated team based PvP style (check this thread for all details) that has its origins in Joint Operations, brought to ArmA by CoolBox-SBS, with credits to Kju, BCA_Cat_Toaster and many others. AAS just recently reached final status with its 1.0 version after more than two years of development and months of private and public testing.

The essence of AAS is for two enemy teams to capture and control a number of zones (typically between 4 and 8 or more, depending upon mission), and the mission layouts and rulesets encourage team and objective focussed gameplay as opposed to 'kill point hunting', all without giving up any of the freedom that ArmA provides. Each mission typically plays for 45 minutes, unless one team captures all capture zones before the time runs out.

We currently play over 70 missions on five islands (Chernarus, Utes, Panthera, Quesh-Kibrul and Namalsk), and thanks to a quite active group of mission makers around the world, a handful of new missions are being added every month or so.

Most of us have jobs and/or family, so typically we don’t start before 8-9pm Eastern Time and play until late night. However, the server is hosted in New York which means quite nice pings to Europe (we even have regulars from Japan and Australia), so you can jump on with your buddies whenever you like. The server has a standard map cycle and allows voting for user admins when no resident admin is online.

So, if you are looking for fun PvP gameplay, feel invited to hop onto the server. We also have team communication via Teamspeak 3.

If you like AAS but want to play elswhere, there are a number of other servers in Europe and the US that play AAS frequently, and several tournaments (e.g. AGW) and leagues.

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UPDATE:

Just wanted to add that while we still play all the Chernorus and Utes based missions, we have added 3 new islands and over 20 new missions to the server roster (Panthera 2, Quesh-Kibrul, Namalsk). In order to play these on ArmAcalypse, you need the following add-ons before you join:

-Namalsk 1.0

-Namalsk 1.02 patch

-Quesh-Kibrul 2.0

-Panthera2 2.6

-Little Birds 2.2

If you want to save yourself some time and make it simple, we have put all 5 required add-ons into a all-in-one pack (download, unzip, add target line - DONE).

You can grab the ArmAcalypse pack here:

Download the ArmAcalypse Map Pack

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A few screenies of the islands we play:

Panthera 2

Chernarus

Quesh-Kibrul

Utes

Namalsk

I have posted this in this section because ArmAcalypse is not a squad or fan page, but rather a "giving something back to the community" server project, and I believe it might help some people here who feel ArmA 2 does not cater to the PvP crowds.

Cheers,

qwertz

Edited April 28, 2010 by qwertz

[icebreakr 3101]

I will soon add a PvP pack for Panthera (Asabana Desert sector) named Operation Ironfox. A team (US) will play to win various objectives against insurgents (recommended size: 1/3 of Army) who will try to make their lives miserable.

I've been disappointed in so many PVP missions I've decided to drop coop for a while and do this with my team. When tests are done I'll release it.

Edited April 13, 2010 by IceBreakr

[Lhowon 10]

That's a nice picture of that map which is totally Quesh-Kibrul.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Lhowon

[Simon C 0]

No, the picture in the screenshot is definitely Quesh-Kibrul.

[Defunkt 431]

It is now.

[Lhowon 10]

Stop talking to yourself Simon ;)

(He ninja-edited the pic)

On-topic, it's good to see people getting PVP going, though personally I have a lot of issues with the gameplay of AAS that turn me off it as a go-to mission for PVP. Each to their own of course. There are some potential alternatives in the works though, not least of which PR, so I do see a brighter future for ArmA 2 PVP.

Edited April 13, 2010 by Lhowon

[whisper 0]

What are the issues you have with AAS? Feedback and comments are important for everyone, plz share

[hund 0]

Isn't normal PR gameplay basically AAS with a few more bells and whistles?

Anyhow, yeah, the PvP folks need somewhere to go and have fun, so I applaud your initiative. Good work there.

[RN Escobar 0]

if you want some true PewPew then take a look at the APL

Ladders, Leagues and Tournaments in CTF, DM and Siege.

Pop across to the website and forums for more info.

[galzohar 31]

Isn't normal PR gameplay basically AAS with a few more bells and whistles?

As far as I know spawn camping is not a central game feature in PR, but PR has its own weird stuff.

[qwertz 10]

As far as I know spawn camping is not a central game feature in PR, but PR has its own weird stuff.

Hey galzohar, I hope you don't want to imply that "spawn camping" is a central feature of AAS - have you played it recently?

:bounce3: qwertz

[Defunkt 431]

It used to be, what's changed? And are loadouts slot-based now or is it still help yourself to anything (usually SMAW & M107) from either side's crates or is this an optional ruleset? It's been a long time since I've seen an AAS mission played in Australasia so no, haven't played it for a while.

[qwertz 10]

It used to be, what's changed? And are loadouts slot-based now or is it still help yourself to anything (usually SMAW & M107) from either side's crates or is this an optional ruleset? It's been a long time since I've seen an AAS mission played in Australasia so no, haven't played it for a while.

They are now class based, but you can change it (this and more is rule-set based, and there are different rule-sets to choose from like public, classic, AWG, Hardcore etc). On ArmAcalypse, the ruleset prevents you from carrying both a scoped rifle or machine gun AND any launcher. Also, there is spawn protection, hence my question to galhozar :)

A lot of good things have happened with AAS until its 1.0 release - it sounds like you have not checked since V0.4 or so ?

[Defunkt 431]

Not sure what the version was, the problem I had with spawn-killing is that teams spawned on top of the objective they were defending so prior to actually losing it you'd have to get spawn-killed at least once to find out it was a lost cause. Cant see spawn protection working with this setup, so perhaps they're finally spawning behind the objective they're defending?

[qwertz 10]

Here is how it works: You can spawn at a point being defended by your team ONLY as long as it FULLY belongs to your team. If the enemy has camped it down by only 1%, you can't spawn there anymore. The attacking team can only spawn there once it has fully decamped the point and then recamped to a full 100%. So, for most of the time, no team can spawn at the frontline.

This is actually very clever as it balances quite nicely and encourages teamplay - in order to cap a point, coordinated attack is required. You can't cap a point Rambo-style.

Spawn camping is virtually non-existent - and if so, we are talking about sniping. You have THAT problem with any game mode that includes forward spawn points I guess, but AAS provides for this by a rule-set based spawn armor (3 seconds of invincibility on ArmAcalypse, up to 10 in other rulesets). This gives you enough time to seek for cover when you are spawning in a hot zone.

Edited April 14, 2010 by qwertz

[Defunkt 431]

I'll keep asking questions, just stop answering when you're bored.

I have downloaded the r526 pack but haven't had any joy finding a description of the various included rulesets. Where would I go?

How are vehicles handled? When I last played there were a bunch at X-Ray, pretty sure anybody could jump in anything they got to first and once destroyed they'd respawn at the same spot. Is this any more controlled now?

[qwertz 10]

I'll keep asking questions, just stop answering when you're bored.

I have downloaded the r526 pack but haven't had any joy finding a description of the various included rulesets. Where would I go?

How are vehicles handled? When I last played there were a bunch at X-Ray, pretty sure anybody could jump in anything they got to first and once destroyed they'd respawn at the same spot. Is this any more controlled now?

Hi Defunkt, don't worry, just ask your questions.

Have a look here re the rulesets (one version behind, but gives you a good overview).

"Public": I would suggest checking this out first as this is a quite balanced rule-set

"Hardcore": has the highest realism, very limited HUD and strictes restrictions

"BCA": is staying very close to the Joint Operations original

"Classic": is the most accessible and non-restrictive ruleset

"ArmA.ru": and "AGW" are cutomized rulesets for these two sqads/tournaments

Alos have in mind that there are 2 versions for each rulesets: one with and one without AI. The AI is configured to support the gameplay only until a live player number threshold is met (and AI is switched off completely at ArmAcalypse).

The vehicles are very dependent upon the mission. The mission maker decides how this is handled, e.g. if there are any vehicles (many just have transport vehicles), which ones and how many etc. Also, he can set the respawn times for each vehicle individually.

With over 70 missions and growing, there is quite a variety to choose from.

The rule-sets define how the respawn is handled. Some rulesets (classic for instance) do not override the mission maker's settings, some do and define global respawn times for vehicles by class. The vehicles spawn on their original point after the predifined time (wherever the mission maker defined this to be, not only at X-Ray!).

Edited April 14, 2010 by qwertz

[BCA Cat Toaster 10]

Here´s the latest description about Rulesets.

AI-Support gets disabled with the ninth player joining, but that can be set to four or six as well.

There´s no restriction about who can use a certain vehicle.

[galzohar 31]

The problem is that the spawn is at the spot of the fighting, and is still what is happening as far as I can tell. Spawn protection does not change that, as you will still have to kill enemies faster than 1 every ~10 seconds in order to have more of your players than theirs in their zone, which means you have to kill them pretty damn close to where they are spawning.

Spawning inside the combat zone is what really made me stop playing both AAS and Berzerk. It doesn't matter how it's handled, if there is spawning inside the combat zone, it messes a lot of things up.

[76 0]

The problem is that the spawn is at the spot of the fighting, and is still what is happening as far as I can tell. Spawn protection does not change that, as you will still have to kill enemies faster than 1 every ~10 seconds in order to have more of your players than theirs in their zone, which means you have to kill them pretty damn close to where they are spawning.

Spawning inside the combat zone is what really made me stop playing both AAS and Berzerk. It doesn't matter how it's handled, if there is spawning inside the combat zone, it messes a lot of things up.

Then with your spawn protection you could run outside the capture area.... solved.

I think it works very well the way it is, its been a constant wip and 1.0 is near perfect... couldn't be happier.

[galzohar 31]

Why would you run outside of the capture area? You are supposed to be defending it and staying in it! You are missing the whole problem. The problem is that players spawn inside the place where they need to go to fight over, rather than spawn away and then go to that place, so while you are fighting you have players spawning in close proximity to you and/or are spawning yourself right next to your enemies. It doesn't matter if it's 100m or 300m and it doesn't matter if you have 0, 5 or 30 seconds spawn protection - it is still a problem.

[qwertz 10]

Hey galzohar, I still don't quite understand the problem you see. Any spawn point is only at the spot of the fighting for a small time of the battle, and that for a reason.

The scenario you describe is only possible if you (as the attacking team) are entering the capture point with too few men. In which case you make a mistake and get punished. Think about this as "breaking the supply lines" in RL. This element actually encourages TEAMWORK, because you have to coordinate with your team members to make sure your attack "breaks the spawn point". For the rest of the ongoing fight over that point (which is usually 80% + of the time), once you have broken it with a PROPER attack, nobody can spawn there until the attack was 100% successful and you have fully re-camped the zone, in which case you are now the defending team and the above applies again.

Also, please have in mind that most recent missions include neutral zones in the middle that can't be spawned at by either team until fully captured by either.

Are you suggesting that it should be enough for 1 lone enemy to sneak into your well defended zone to break it so you can't spawn there anymore, completely wiping out your advantage as defenders ? That would remove any requirement for a planned attack, would make any planned defense useless and would completely destroy the tactial element imho.

I think you are talking about a problem that does not exist with the later AAS versions. Or do I just misunderstand you ?

Edited April 14, 2010 by qwertz

[galzohar 31]

The problem is that you need to get into a zone where the enemy is respawning into once every 10 seconds. Getting enough attackers in a zone takes time, and during that time you have to keep whatever you have in the zone alive as the enemy keeps respawning. That makes "kill them as close to their spawn as possible and keep killing them as soon as possible after they spawn" the best tactic, and seeing how the tactic description has the word "spawn" twice in it shows how the game is highly focused on respawns rather than the actual combat tactics. That's what I don't like.

There were discussions regarding that instead of attacking the enemy spawn the teams would fight over a neutral area until that is captured and then the next zone will be turned into neutral, and ways to make it actually work properly, however that seems to have been discarded.

[qwertz 10]

Getting enough attackers in a zone takes time, and during that time you have to keep whatever you have in the zone alive as the enemy keeps respawning.

It just requires coordination - it only takes time if you don't coordinate as a team and people drip in one by one. This would not happen in a real life attack, would it ?

That makes "kill them as close to their spawn as possible and keep killing them as soon as possible after they spawn" the best tactic

. In alomst 100% of the cases the team using this "tactic" loses, and that very quickly. It might be a problem of poor map design also, newer maps spawn in protected areas mostly.

There were discussions regarding that instead of attacking the enemy spawn the teams would fight over a neutral area until that is captured and then the next zone will be turned into neutral, and ways to make it actually work properly, however that seems to have been discarded.

That is actually an interesting idea, notwithstanding the above.

In any case, there's lots to like about AAS and many people do, and the goal of this thread was just to make sure people know that there are great PvP modes out there that are actively being played, in order to help people that can't seem to find PvP gamplay in public ArmA. I would suggest that we use the main AAS thread (http://forums.bistudio.com/showthread.php?t=96871) to continue discussing the ins-and outs of AAS and ideas how to improve.

At the end, the great thing about ArmA (and sometimes the worst thing at the same time) is that everyone can choose and pick their own game mode, the choice is endless.

:bounce3:

qwertz

Edited April 14, 2010 by qwertz

[qwertz 10]

Just wanted to add that while we still play all the Chernorus and Utes based missions, we have added 3 new islands and over 20 new missions to the server roster (Panthera 2, Quesh-Kibrul, Namalsk). In order to play these on ArmAcalypse, you need the following add-ons before you join:

-Namalsk 1.0

-Namalsk 1.02 patch

-Quesh-Kibrul 2.0

-Panthera2 2.6

-Little Birds 2.2

If you want to save yourself some time and make it simple, we have put all 5 required add-ons into a all-in-one pack (download, unzip, add target line - DONE).

You can grab the ArmAcalypse pack here:

Download the ArmAcalypse Map Pack

:cheers:

qwertz

Edited April 28, 2010 by qwertz